Rebel - KGC
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It's all the bad local oysters.
WHAT...? The "French Connection"; a HOAX...?
WARD BASED HIS STORY ON ORIGINAL "THE BEALE PAPERS" PUBLISHED 1850
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WHAT...? The "French Connection"; a HOAX...?
bigscoop
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You're way to focused on "French" as if a whole, instead of the worldwide cause a faction from it created. "Bonapartism wasn't just a French thing." It was an ideal that was grasped very strongly by many of those in this country and other parts of the world, nationality not being near the focal point you're obviously stuck upon.
tat2guy
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Ok gentlemen, on a recent trip thru Philly I ran across something that was all wrong so I thought. Near center city Philly is a statue of a civil war solider on horseback. Ok no problem, but it says Gettysburg on one side. Another side has the date sept 21,1820 or 1821. So in taking some students to penn state Abington campus. I had asked the teacher on the trip about the statue. She said she had only heard it had something to do with the Beall family in western pa that was apart of the bealls sharpshooters of the rev war. Ill get pics my next trip into the city.
So let me lay it out there. Since I'm not as knowledgable on the civil war stuff, please help me understand this. This is also fairly close to where the Hutter family originates from.
Thanks tat
So let me lay it out there. Since I'm not as knowledgable on the civil war stuff, please help me understand this. This is also fairly close to where the Hutter family originates from.
Thanks tat
ECS
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Maybe not an established fact,but the 1850 BEALE PAPERS by E F Beale contain many of the same events that appeared in Ward's 1885 Beale pamphlet.It was also be noted that E F Beale,in 1849 brought the first sample of gold nuggets found at Sutter's Mill to Washington D C,which started the California gold rush.It was big news,and gold fever struck the east,and western dime novels and treasure stories were in vogue.
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bigscoop
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Well here's the real stumper....apparently, as has been told as Tat has mentioned, there was also a Beale/Beall rifle regiment that served during the Rev War, and supposedly (still being investigated) these two Beall/Beale were all of the same family blood, possibly even the same connection to Beale Sr.
It's way too early to say for sure, but....it's going to have to be looked into before we can know with any certainty one way or the other. Like I said earlier, may be something, may be nothing....only time will tell.
bigscoop
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Without any argument that much is accurate. Look, I have never discounted the dime novel theory, in fact I've even forwarded information to many people that support that very possibility, but to make the dime novel claim as if it is a conclusive fact......I can't do that and to my knowledge neither can anyone else. Given everything i have researched over the years I will stand by a comment that I have made several times; "if there is any truth to any of it then that truth has to be connected to the events and the people in Texas, including the Bonapartes, because if not then there is no other possibility with even a remote amount of the same supporting evidence throughout the period in question."
Rebel - KGC
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Well here's the real stumper....apparently, as has been told as Tat has mentioned, there was also a Beale/Beall rifle regiment that served during the Rev War, and supposedly (still being investigated) these two Beall/Beale were all of the same family blood, possibly even the same connection to Beale Sr.
IT was Thomas Beale, Sr.
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"French Connection" as "stated by YOU" is ALSO "post-CONFEDERATE WAR with Emperor of Mexico (Bonapartes "blood-line"). CHECK IT OUT!
bigscoop
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Been all over it many times but didn't turn up much.
Rebel - KGC
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LOL! "Google" Emperor Maximilian of Mexico; THEN... LOST TREASURE Magazine: Maximilian's LOST Treasure; 1864... Napolean III declared MEXICO "to be an empire allied with France"; the REST is HISTORY that the CONFEDERATE WAR covered over!
bigscoop
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I've read it, researched it fairly well, but just don't believe it is directly connected to the much earlier events regarding the Beale Pamphlet.
Old Bookaroo
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bigscoop:
There is remarkably little historical evidence to back up the Maximilian Treasure yarn. Horsehead Crossing and Castle Gap have some treasure stories worth following up (if one could obtain the necessary permission to hunt in the right places) but this just isn't one of them.
Most writers turn to J. Frank Dobie's classic account and then think they've done some real "research."
Are you familiar with Castle Gap and the Pecos Frontier by Patrick Dearen? Highly recommended - quite interesting!
Good luck to all,
~The Old Bookaroo
There is remarkably little historical evidence to back up the Maximilian Treasure yarn. Horsehead Crossing and Castle Gap have some treasure stories worth following up (if one could obtain the necessary permission to hunt in the right places) but this just isn't one of them.
Most writers turn to J. Frank Dobie's classic account and then think they've done some real "research."
Are you familiar with Castle Gap and the Pecos Frontier by Patrick Dearen? Highly recommended - quite interesting!
Good luck to all,
~The Old Bookaroo
Old Bookaroo
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tat2guy:
I believe that statue depicts the gallant Gen. John R. Reynolds, a son of Pennsylvania who fell early during the battle at Gettysbury.
The September 1820 date is when he was born. The base of the statue has "September 21" (based on a photo I found on the Internet). Wikipedia (and we know that is always correct) gives the date as the 20th. Guess this is one time it would be incorrect to claim "Well, at least it isn't etched in stone."
Good luck to all,
~The Old Bookaroo
I believe that statue depicts the gallant Gen. John R. Reynolds, a son of Pennsylvania who fell early during the battle at Gettysbury.
The September 1820 date is when he was born. The base of the statue has "September 21" (based on a photo I found on the Internet). Wikipedia (and we know that is always correct) gives the date as the 20th. Guess this is one time it would be incorrect to claim "Well, at least it isn't etched in stone."
Good luck to all,
~The Old Bookaroo
bigscoop
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Whenever possible I always try to locate first hand information in the form of documents, letters, records, etc. What I've found over the years is that most writers embellish things, or they tend to present information at a biased or an opinionated level they believed to be accurate based on their research efforts at the time of the writing. I try to rely very little on what others have written whenever possible, usually making every effort to research what I can for myself or with others. Of course it's far more laborious and time consuming and access isn't always possible, but it does eliminate the amount of possible inaccurate or biased/opinionated information. At present I have three books concerning a different matter written by three different scholars, each book containing somewhat different translations and opinions "and facts" regarding many of the same materials.
Who do you believe? 
ECS
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"IF THERE IS TRUTH TO ANY OF IT"
All other outside inference is made by those seeking to prove the Beale story really happened,because if the story is suspect,the two unsolved ciphers are suspect,and the existence of the treasure is suspect.
It all goes back to the Hutters,Ward,and Sherman,a western/treasure dime novel writer-no Bonaparte,Galveston,Olive & Vine,LaFitte are mentioned or refered to in the 1885 Beale Papers.
All other outside inference is made by those seeking to prove the Beale story really happened,because if the story is suspect,the two unsolved ciphers are suspect,and the existence of the treasure is suspect.
bigscoop
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I could care less about any treasure....cost more then it's worth to dig it up these days and to defend it and you'd never own it, if it even did exist, which it most likely dosen't. At least we agree on that last probability. And I love the way you so hardily defend your own highly speculative theory with such conclusive appeal and concealed uncertainty. If you really believed in what you preach to be fact you wouldn't keep investigating all these other claims as you frequently do. But that's ok, nothing wrong with keeping the door of uncertainty ajar just in case.
And the Hutters and Sherman are mentioned in the Beale Pamphlet where, exactly? And I'm quoting you here, "All other outside inference is made by those seeking to prove the Beale story is".....is, fiction? Sorry, but you just made your own case against your own proposed theory, yes? I wonder what Sherlock Holmes would say about this most awkward investigative paradox?
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Rebel - KGC
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Rebel - KGC
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War of 1812 FACTS... Thomas Beale, Sr. was THERE, as BEALE'S RIFLES; Pachal Buford was THERE, as ARTILLERY. They MAY have known each other, and met Jean Lafitte in New Orleans (French Quarter); Andy Jackson PROBABLY knew 'em ALL!
Lynchburg, VIRGINIA had a parade for AJ in 1815 or so. Even Thomas Jefferson came over from Poplar Forest; FACTS in HISTORY! "Google" Gen. Andrew Jackson in Lynchburg, VIRGINIA, 1815.
Lynchburg, VIRGINIA had a parade for AJ in 1815 or so. Even Thomas Jefferson came over from Poplar Forest; FACTS in HISTORY! "Google" Gen. Andrew Jackson in Lynchburg, VIRGINIA, 1815.
bigscoop
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"War of 1812 FACTS... Thomas Beale, Sr. was THERE, as BEALE'S RIFLES; Pachal Buford was THERE, as ARTILLERY. They MAY have known each other, and met Jean Lafitte in New Orleans (French Quarter);....."
"About 4 miles from Buford's......"
(Let us not forget Laffite's artillery uncle R. fresh from Napoleon's campaigns, as were many of those men. Laffite's lawyer "Livingston" was also part of that rifle regiment, etc. etc. etc.)
Of course, this is all just speculation, isn't it? And I'd bet apples to oranges that Mexico Sherman was there as well.
"About 4 miles from Buford's......"
(Let us not forget Laffite's artillery uncle R. fresh from Napoleon's campaigns, as were many of those men. Laffite's lawyer "Livingston" was also part of that rifle regiment, etc. etc. etc.)
Of course, this is all just speculation, isn't it? And I'd bet apples to oranges that Mexico Sherman was there as well.
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