Uniform Found in the ground

[SouthJerseyJim]

Ya I couldn't believe i found either. Started hunting an old stage coach area and stumbled across an Eagle button in the middle of the road. Further up started detecting in the brush and eyeball this baby sticking out of the ground. I dont have much faith that it is CW period, more like WW1 or 2 but none the less it is a navy peacoat with almost all the buttons still attached. Was wondering if anyone has an age approx or vaule. Thanks for the help!

 

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[Tricia]

Re-enact what? A great naval battle in a pool?

 

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[Bigcypresshunter]

SouthJerseyJim, we are discussing your buttons here. http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php?topic=333953.new#new

 

[Lucas]

OK now I see it is wool, and a pea coat. The belt at the back is the key here. I think that would be pre-WWI. Civil War great coats have the same belt. The black button is standard (since 1900? ) and they have been made of hard rubber and plastic. I have seen the eagle buttons in hard rubber too.

I'm not a button guy, and don't have any uniform books, but there is something to go on anyway.

 

[Wldbil]

Whatever it turns out to be, that is one heck of a find. Way Cool!!!

 

[kuger]

OK now I see it is wool, and a pea coat. The belt at the back is the key here. I think that would be pre-WWI. Civil War great coats have the same belt. The black button is standard (since 1900? ) and they have been made of hard rubber and plastic. I have seen the eagle buttons in hard rubber too.

I'm not a button guy, and don't have any uniform books, but there is something to go on anyway.

Good points.I am no button expert either but we dig India Rubber buttons in 1850's sites regularly

 

[Lucas]

If was a little longer it would be a officer's overcoat.

 

[QUICKSILVER (appletree)]

did anyone notice the black button doesn't have a rope with the anchor?

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

did anyone notice the black button doesn't have a rope with the anchor?

The one with the rope is called a "fouled anchor".

Im having trouble finding it too. Heres a late 1800's rubber button made by the H P American Hard Rubber Company without the fouling. The button is not a match.

http://pegsbuttons.ecrater.com/p/6587964/navy-coat-button-from-the-late


A pic of the back may help.

Here are some other hard rubber peacoat buttons. Some with fouling some without. http://pegsbuttons.ecrater.com/p/7023444/navy-pea-coat-buttonsvintage-buttons

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

OK now I see it is wool, and a pea coat. The belt at the back is the key here. I think that would be pre-WWI. Civil War great coats have the same belt. The black button is standard (since 1900? ) and they have been made of hard rubber and plastic. I have seen the eagle buttons in hard rubber too.

I'm not a button guy, and don't have any uniform books, but there is something to go on anyway.

Would this be an officers reefer? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pea_coat

Im keeping the possibility open that this may be a 70's civilian hippie pea coat with pre 1941 obsolete Navy design buttons with the iron backs and non fouled anchor rubber button. (This eagle design was used by the US Navy from 1850-1941).




Today the style is considered a classic, and pea coats are now worn by all manner of individuals, not just professional sailors. When it is worn by a woman, it is often referred to as a Jackie O Jacket. This jacket is very similar, but not the same as a trench coat.

Note that few of the jackets seen on the street are genuine navy surplus; being a classic garment, it is frequently available from retailers, though often with small design changes that reflect the current fashion trends. wikepedia

 

[allen_idaho]

From what I can tell, this is a post-1940 US Navy pea coat.

Prior to 1940, the eagle on the button was printed facing right.
After 1940, the eagle on the button was printed facing left just like the ones you found.
During the 1940's, the buttons were made of pewter. The gold painted buttons were worn by Chief petty officers or above and officers.

Although the number of buttons is another issue. During world war 2, Navy peacoats had 10 buttons on the front, 2 on the left collar, one on the right.
After world war 2, they were designed with only 8 buttons on the front.
However, your find does seem to have a world war 2 era neck strap. That would be the thin piece of material with 2 small gold buttons on it.

So I would place this coat somewhere around the late-1940's to 1950's and belonging to an E-7 or above.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

After 1940, the eagle on the button was printed facing left just like the ones you found.

I think you have this backwards. You might have made a typo error. This button design found on this uniform is 1850-1941. http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,333953.0.html
http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,333953.0.html



As far as I know here is the post 1941 Navy eagle button.

 

[Ray S ECenFL]

Nice find and a good mystery to solve.

 

[bottlebum]

I think that the reason for it surviving so log is because of the fact that it is made of wool. (Hair)

Pretty cool.

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

By request, here is my analysis and opinion about this coat. The evidence indiactes it is not an actual military-issued coat, but instead, a civilian Fashion "knock-off" imitation of the actual US Navy pea-coat.

Reasons:
1- Its shape does not match the actual US Navy Enlisted-man's pea-coat shown in the photo at Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pea_coat
2- The excavated coat is also not the version for Officers ...because the buttons on the excavated coat show only a weak "gold finish" rather than actual gold gilt. By official Regulations specification, military buttons made for US Officers had heavy gold-gilting -- not merely a "gold finish."
3- In addition to the cheap "gold finish," the excavated coat's buttons show an eagle whose wing-tops are very rounded. On actual US Navy buttons, the wings' tops are more V-shaped than round. The very-rounded wing-tops are a typical characteristic of the Fashin imitations of actual US Navy buttons.
4- The excavated coat's brass buttons have rusted-out iron backs. Almost no actual US Navy buttons are iron-backed, because saltwater and even salty humid air are corrosive, causing the iron to rust, which would stain the uniform's cloth.
5- According to the Albert button-book, US Navy Regulations specify that the small (16-to-19millimeters) four-hole black plastic buttons (showing only a "depressed" anchor) is for pants. It should not be on an actual US Navy pea-coat.

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

For BigCypressHunter:
According to the McGuinn-&-Bazelon book on button backsmarks, the Pancraft backmark is from 1940, and apparently ONLY that year. Also, the photo shows a wide gap between the the button's face and its back. That is a characteristic of cheap, "flimsy" construction (not complying with US military-usage standards), indicating the Pancraft button is a Fashion button. Also, the rope border on its face does not go through the achor's loop/ring, which is another indication of Fashion button.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

For BigCypressHunter:
According to the McGuinn-&-Bazelon book on button backsmarks, the Pancraft backmark is from 1940, and apparently ONLY that year. Also, the photo shows a wide gap between the the button's face and its back. That is a characteristic of cheap, "flimsy" construction (not complying with US military-usage standards), indicating the Pancraft button is a Fashion button. Also, the rope border on its face does not go through the achor's loop/ring, which is another indication of Fashion button.

Ok that makes sense on the Pancraft button.

 

[High Plains Digger]

If the anchor button is not rubber, and is not plastic (if these are or are not the cases) then I wonder if the Gov. used bakelite for buttons in the 20's and on? Just a thought.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

By request, here is my analysis and opinion about this coat. The evidence indiactes it is not an actual military-issued coat, but instead, a civilian Fashion "knock-off" imitation of the actual US Navy pea-coat.

Sounds great thanks. I think we can call it solved.


What is your opinion on this small tin backed button from reply #31? Is it a cap button?

He has it as NA-113
United States Navy
1850-65
2pc. convex brass, 13mm
BM: "Tin back"
Eagle facing left at top of horizontal anchor, lined field, 13 five pointed stars, & rope border







http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,186976.msg1370520.html#msg1370520

 

[Breezie]

I'm going with a Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Heart's Club Band era coat that was purchased or borrowed for a Halloween party within the past few years, and the wearer took it off for whatever reason, and left it on the ground. Since the buttons are rusted on the back, it can't be a military coat. No matter, it's a most interesting & unusual find, Breezie

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

BigCypressHunter wrote:
> What is your opinion on this small tin backed button from reply #31? Is it a cap button?
> He has it as [Albert button-book number] NA-113.

The button has very significant differences from Albert button NA-113. Chief among those major differences is the border. On this button the border is a simple raised ridge surrounded at its outer edge by a circle of raised dots ...it does not have the rope border typically seen on US Navy buttons. Apparently, the OP was drinking heavily when he ID'ed it as NA-113.

As to its actual ID:
it is not shown in any reference-book on civil war military buttons.
The eagle's wings are quite round-topped.
Its front has extremely weak detail ...so weak that it looks like a child's drawing of the US Navy emblem.
Its back is iron.

Those are characteristics of ultra-cheaply-made Fashion buttons.

The very-weak detail and the iron back are typical of Confedrate "local-made" buttons. But, as noted, it isn't in any of the books on civil war buttons. So, it's either a one-of-a-kind Confederate Local, or an ultra-cheaply-made Fashion button.