Treasure Trove Permits

[SANTA FE NEW MEXICAN]

Bump. Just keepin this on the "PAGE".

 

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[BILL96]

Last year just about this time I went to home Depot and bought several items and then I bought several more "special" items online and built me a reactor/transformer/spinningwheel that will actually spin straw into gold! yes its true and I dare you to prove me wrong. I am now a rich little man with lots of tall women and thats a fact!

Rumplestilskin

 

[SANTA FE NEW MEXICAN]

Bill i would never try to prove you wrong. Besides I know I owe you 8 or maybee a little extra, and plan on paying. as soon as my financial situation improves, Our mutual friend will contact you at the appropriate time. I must however thankyou for your patients, and for being a friend. Sorry for any past misunderstandings, and if i was at fault i do apologize. Sincerely John V. Kemm

 

[gollum]

[mod]TERMS OF USE VIOLATION! We reserve the right to delete or modify any post, avatar or image, at any time, and for any reason.[/mod]

 

[Blindbowman]

what if you are wrong .. your calling people names like goofballs ,, what makes you any diffrent ..ya i saw the topic it said . this topic is about calling people names .. your right ,it is Amazing you think you can call people names and think they should let you because you think your right ..

 

[Javaone]

Unbelievable!

 

[Javaone]

Are you calling me black ... them fighting words . put em up ... and get em going on that stupid kettle thingy ...lol

I can't see what he posted, but take my advice amigo, put that one on 'ignore' and we can have a calm, interesting discussion without his hostile stuff.
Roy

Oro, It was only someone saying "The pot calling the kettle black" <- Don't think there was anything wrong with that - except someone trying to make a big deal out of it...

 

[Javaone]

I can't see what he posted, but take my advice amigo, put that one on 'ignore' and we can have a calm, interesting discussion without his hostile stuff.
Roy

It's your "amigo" that needs to be put on "ignore".

 

[SANTA FE NEW MEXICAN]

"put that one on 'ignore' and we can have a calm, interesting discussion" Ever since ive ignored gollums rude remarks it has been interesting discussion. The fact is BB is not Ignoring Gollum.

 

[Felinepeachy]

[mod] One more post OFF TOPIC and the whole thing disappears [/mod]

 

[Blindbowman]

Are you calling me black ... them fighting words . put em up ... and get em going on that stupid kettle thingy ...lol

I can't see what he posted, but take my advice amigo, put that one on 'ignore' and we can have a calm, interesting discussion without his hostile stuff.
Roy

Oro, It was only someone saying "The pot calling the kettle black" <- Don't think there was anything wrong with that - except someone trying to make a big deal out of it...

stop throwing sand and lets get back on topic ...

 

[Javaone]

Wow! I just went back and read the first few posts in this thread "Treasure Trove Permits" - very interesting stuff! My bad for not reading it before . I see I have a lot more reading and learning to do.

Jerry

 

[Blindbowman]

Wow! I just went back and read the first few posts in this thread "Treasure Trove Permits" - very interesting stuff! My bad for not reading it before . I see I have a lot more reading and learning to do.

Jerry

if you write scott wood he can send you the address for the permit guide lines .. i have a set and they are a little long winded . but they are there to protect the NFS ..

well i went and got the paper work

the first paper you need is the Arizona state land department map order form ... 1616w.Adams phenix, arizona 85007

now that will give you a list of topo maps needed to record a site . they set a standard to make filing easyer .. for everyone

then the next paper you need is a

Mineral expolation permit application instructional comments

that gives you a brake down of there guide lines of what a mineral consist of ..guide lines on bond and other parts of the mineral asspects ..

next you have a mineral development report.. this sets out the guide lines and requirements for geologic evaluation and economic feasibility , and the mine operating plan and reclamation & closure plan ..

it sounds like a lot of guide lines .. but really it is ...lol

hope that helps ...

there is another guide line for treasure trove permit ... i dont see it here right now but i do have it some where ..and if you plain to learn more about treasure hunting these are the best reading out there .. because they are the guide lines ...for this area ..

 

[Hal Croves]

Where did you get the idea that there ARE any Canadian companies?

Hey! Give our northern neighbors some credit - at least where GOLD is concerned. There were at least 271 mining companies listed in the Toronto Stock Exchange last I looked, and they are very competitive! If you've ever seen their boys & girls fly past you in a helicopter as you slog your way through half-thawed muskeg on their way to stake out mining claims and beat you to it, you will know what I mean! They don't fool around, and are danged good at the game.

Thanks for the info Tropical Tramp, now to find out about forming a Mexican company, legally.... Maybe we can meet sooner rather later my friend!

If those are human remains Blindbowman it is worth reporting to the authorities - one never knows what you will find; may be just what you suspect it is, or it could be some other unfortunate. I hope you will let us know when your book is available?

Thanks Scott for posting the information on Treasure trove permits too - very helpful! If ever I should locate a trove of treasure, I now know the process of how to apply for the correct permit.

Oroblanco

Oroblanco,
After reading this thread, I still can't say everything in red. What would you do step by step if you were getting ready to file for a treasure trove permit? I am not asking for a long tutorial, just a check list of things you personally would consider a priority.

Thank you.

 

[deducer]

Oroblanco,
After reading this thread, I still can't say everything in red. What would you do step by step if you were getting ready to file for a treasure trove permit? I am not asking for a long tutorial, just a check list of things you personally would consider a priority.

Thank you.

Hal, your best bet is to talk to Ron Feldman, if you can. He has experienced this process firsthand.

 

[Azquester]

Thanks for bringing the BlindBowMan back from the dead we all miss his insanity.

 

[Hal Croves]

Hal, your best bet is to talk to Ron Feldman, if you can. He has experienced this process firsthand.

....if you can. It's not realistic to think that he would make time for someone outside Franks magic circle. Understandably so with everything that's been written about him and said behind closed doors. And from self proclaimed friends? Why would he?

Oro is one of the brighter lights on the TNet tree. I trust his opinion. Yours as well.

When its my turn, it will be by the book, with a focus on archeology, preservation and documentation. It's public land and whatever is found there belongs to the public, ...minus a modest finders fee. <|: )

 

[RG1976]

Hal, your best bet is to talk to Ron Feldman, if you can. He has experienced this process firsthand.

Yes - or just watch the series A&E did with Feldman. It's called Treasure! The Lost Dutchman Mine.

They talk to Feldman as part of that episode, and say something to the effect of:

A&E - “Is the Lost Dutchman Mine still out there?

Feldman - “I cannot answer that question because if I do, I will incriminate myself”

The video can be purchased at the Museum, right next to Feldman’s book where he describes the process of how he did everything he did - of course, its written as Fiction.


I find it kind of funny - to be honest - that 90% of you here are gun advocates and owners. One of the biggest things "gun people" will say is "Making a law to get rid of the guns will only affect the honest owners of guns. If a criminal is going to go shoot someone, do think they care about gun laws?"

Yet - you think its necessary to post rules on how to get a treasure trove permit - where the chances of being approved on such a big "heist" is nearly impossible. If someone knows how to get millions worth of gold - they will do it without the permission of the gov't. They will find an area near by, perhaps a well, get a permit to give them a reason to be in the area - then dig up lots of gold at a different (but close) location - then write a book ALL about it, because you just cannot contain your excitement.

I've been here a month - its really not that hard to figure out.

 

[Hal Croves]

Bill,
Here is a true story about following the rules. If you remember, not too long ago some German lads climbed the Brooklyn Bridge and stole the American flags, replacing them with a bleached white artistic version. Anyway, they got away with it and flew back to Germany, laughing all the way. By chance, I stumbled across (purchased) two HUGE German flags and got the idea that German American month was nearing, why not donate the flags to the City of New York and fly them from the bridge in honor of all the German Americans and their contributions (including Waltz). It was also a personal F-U to the two German artist that still have theses two American flags.

Anyway, I did it by the book and submitted my request to the city, officially.

The response was brilliant. The woman who return my call, the bearer of bad news said, "do you want to know what they really said?" Yes, please I replied. "They said, what is this guy for real? Is he freaken kidding?" Well, my request was denied and they used the illegal stunts as the reasoning. So, who lost out?

I might still fly to Germany with those flags.
Revenge being a dish best served cold.

 

[Oroblanco]

Hal Croves wrote

Oroblanco,
After reading this thread, I still can't say everything in red. What would you do step by step if you were getting ready to file for a treasure trove permit? I am not asking for a long tutorial, just a check list of things you personally would consider a priority.

Thank you

I have not ever applied for a Treasure Trove permit so may not be the best person to ask. However I think I understand the process. First you will need to write (snail mail) to the GSA, oh heck here is an extract from the NPS:

Treasure trove usually refers to gold or silver coin, plate, bullion, or negotiable currency that is found buried underground or submerged under water, or concealed elsewhere (for example, in a house or other structure), and for which the owner of the object(s) is unknown.
Searching for or claiming discovered treasure trove on federally owned land requires authorization in the form of a contract with the General Services Administration (GSA). Treasure trove requests are processed as contracts with the GSA, not NPS. Individuals requesting permission to search for treasure on federal land must contact the Director, Property Management Division, General Services Administration, 1901 South Bell Street, Arlington, VA 22202-4502 by mail.
Although the General Services Administration is authorized to issue contracts to treasure trove applicants, such contracts for searching on parklands also require NPS permission. GSA personnel contact the appropriate NPS offices for permission when a request to search for treasure trove on parklands has been received. As a general policy the NPS does not allow treasure trove activities on parklands, and does not release accidentally discovered treasure trove to the finder.

The most important thing to do, from what I have seen with two successful treasure trove permits in AZ, is to document, document, document. If you can present your application with full documentation, and this means ancient records, old letters, diaries, newspaper articles, land deeds or contract title records, plats, church records, maps (I would recommend avoiding any treasure map in your application because there seems to be a bias against them) and not just old documents to support your case that something may be buried there, also photos of markings you may have found, complete with the exact locations, trails, camps etc. Compass bearings too may be important. It may seem awful to thus expose your secret spot down to the GPS coordinates but that is what they require, and they do not publicize your sensitive info. Also if your plan includes bringing in dozers and excavators to build new roads into your site, there is a great chance it will get rejected.

　
If the site is on AZ state land it is a different process, and no less complex. You will need topo maps of the site, your exact location (proposed) marked, and aerial photos would not hurt but not Google Earth. Not saying that the satellite images are worthless but the FS has been flooded with lots of Google Earth imagery over the years which was not convincing and has now biased them against that type of evidence unless it is super convincing.

I would recommend including your plans on how you will excavate, how much surface disturbance you expect to make, and how you will repair the area thus disturbed when you are done, whether or not you are successful in finding any treasure. This is very important for the FS is very concerned about keeping the wilderness as pristine as possible.

　
Hmm I should qualify that statement about a treasure map in your application - if it were a map that has been in the public eye for decades, published in magazines etc then I would not include it, but if you have one that has never been published, something passed down through very few hands, then it might be helpful.

Don't get discouraged at the red tape and delays, and while we may have disagreed on things in the past, like how maps may have been made in the 1700s, but follow your star. Truth is often stranger than any fiction after all, and if the battle to prove your case is difficult and long, so much more so the satisfaction of getting that last laugh.

　
Good luck and good hunting amigos I hope you find the treasures that you seek.
Oroblanco

PS just heard that our amigo Scott has retired, if you are reading this amigo congratulations and thank you for your many years of service.