Treasure Mountain, CO - Lost Frenchmens Gold

[mdog]

Here's something interesting for you Rebel.

The Chisholm referred to in the first article was probably Ignatious Chisholm who was the father of Jesse, who led a gold hunting expedition in 1826.

RootsWeb's WorldConnect Project: FAMILY TIES

 

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[mdog]

Here's something else you might want to look at.

[FONT=&quot]Adam Chisholme[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]According to A Dictionary of Scottish Emigrants to the U.S.A., Adam Chisholme was transported on the Elizabeth and Anne, departing from Liverpool on either June 28 or July 28, 1716, and the ship arriving in Virginia sometime in late 1716. Family historians believe Adam was born circa 1695 in Scotland. He fought in the Jacobite uprising of 1715, or the “Fifteen” as it was also called, in support of an attempt to restore the Stuart monarchy to power in England.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The Jacobites, or “trouble makers” as they were labeled, failed and their punishment was banishment to the American colonies or the Caribbean Islands where they would be indentured servants for seven years. Over six hundred prisoners were transported in 1716 (another group would follow years later after the 1745 uprising).[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]It is believed that Adam was possibly indentured to William Morris of Hanover County, Virginia since Adam was a beneficiary named in Morris’ will in 1745. Records indicate that the majority of Jacobite prisoners were sent to the southern colonies, with Virginia receiving the most. North and South Carolina were both in need of white settlers and also accepted many prisoners.

Wasn't there a Morris mentioned in the Beale legend?[/FONT]

 

[mdog]

Here's a book about Jesse Chisholm. In chapter 2, starting on page 17, the author writes about the gold hunting expedition that Chisholm took part in during 1826. It also mentions the legends about Spanish gold miners that might be the source of the gold mine on du Pratz's map of 1757.

https://books.google.com/books?id=w...ohn chisholm ambassador of the plains&f=false

 

[sdcfia]

Here's a book about Jesse Chisholm. In chapter 2, starting on page 17, the author writes about the gold hunting expedition that Chisholm took part in during 1826. It also mentions the legends about Spanish gold miners that might be the source of the gold mine on du Pratz's map of 1757.

https://books.google.com/books?id=w...ohn chisholm ambassador of the plains&f=false

Good find, dog. The account on Page 19 reported that it was Spanish who were caught with gold at the mouth of the Little Arkansas River, but it's a little hard to imagine why Spaniards would be that far down the Arkansas (today's Wichita), traveling east into French territory. Makes more sense that the party was French.

 

[mdog]

Good find, dog. The account on Page 19 reported that it was Spanish who were caught with gold at the mouth of the Little Arkansas River, but it's a little hard to imagine why Spaniards would be that far down the Arkansas (today's Wichita), traveling east into French territory. Makes more sense that the party was French.

Yes, a French expedition would make more sense. But La Harpe's map of 1721 shows that the French were aware that the Spanish were mining in the mountains west of the Padouca villages. I would like to know who those Spanish were mining for. With no documentation to explain why they were there, we can only look at events of that period and make a guess.

During the first half of the 18th century, the French of New France were interested in establishing trade with the Spaniards of New Mexico. The French had trade goods to offer and the Spanish had gold and silver. The Journal of the Mallet Expedition showed that the Spanish were willing to meet the French traders, at a distance from the Spanish settlements, to make trades. Who knows what kind of deals were cooked up?

The Arkansas River also offered a quick way to get out of the mountains and down to New Orleans. If there was any clandestine mining going on in the Rockies, it would probably be less risky bribing French officials than trying to get past the officials of New Mexico and Mexico. It would be interesting to know how much gold and silver was moved down the Arkansas River during the 18th century.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Here's something else you might want to look at.

Adam Chisholme
According to A Dictionary of Scottish Emigrants to the U.S.A., Adam Chisholme was transported on the Elizabeth and Anne, departing from Liverpool on either June 28 or July 28, 1716, and the ship arriving in Virginia sometime in late 1716. Family historians believe Adam was born circa 1695 in Scotland. He fought in the Jacobite uprising of 1715, or the “Fifteen” as it was also called, in support of an attempt to restore the Stuart monarchy to power in England.
The Jacobites, or “trouble makers” as they were labeled, failed and their punishment was banishment to the American colonies or the Caribbean Islands where they would be indentured servants for seven years. Over six hundred prisoners were transported in 1716 (another group would follow years later after the 1745 uprising).
It is believed that Adam was possibly indentured to William Morris of Hanover County, Virginia since Adam was a beneficiary named in Morris’ will in 1745. Records indicate that the majority of Jacobite prisoners were sent to the southern colonies, with Virginia receiving the most. North and South Carolina were both in need of white settlers and also accepted many prisoners.

Wasn't there a Morris mentioned in the Beale legend?

Sorta... Robert MORRISS, based on the life of Robert MORRIS, ex-mayor of Lynchburg, Va. in 1813.

 

[sdcfia]

Yes, a French expedition would make more sense. But La Harpe's map of 1721 shows that the French were aware that the Spanish were mining in the mountains west of the Padouca villages. I would like to know who those Spanish were mining for. With no documentation to explain why they were there, we can only look at events of that period and make a guess.

During the first half of the 18th century, the French of New France were interested in establishing trade with the Spaniards of New Mexico. The French had trade goods to offer and the Spanish had gold and silver. The Journal of the Mallet Expedition showed that the Spanish were willing to meet the French traders, at a distance from the Spanish settlements, to make trades. Who knows what kind of deals were cooked up?

The Arkansas River also offered a quick way to get out of the mountains and down to New Orleans. If there was any clandestine mining going on in the Rockies, it would probably be less risky bribing French officials than trying to get past the officials of New Mexico and Mexico. It would be interesting to know how much gold and silver was moved down the Arkansas River during the 18th century.

There wasn't much money (gold/silver) in Santa Fe in those days, and trade goods were scarce. A trade deal would have been lucrative, but with the amount of gold alleged to have been recovered in Spanish Colorado, I suspect that, as you say, the plan was simply to move the gold to New Orleans to avoid paying taxes in Santa Fe. That idea would hold true regardless if the mining was done by Spanish, French or anyone else in Colorado.

Here's another idea. If Spanish rogue miners had moved gold to New Orleans at an early date - perhaps a one-time score - the French may have decided to go back to the mountains and recover even more for themselves with a later expedition. One thing that always bothered me about the Treasure Mountain story was how a large French multi-year expedition could have been kept secret from the officials in Santa Fe - not that far from southern Colorado. I guess the problem for the Spanish may have been a lack of resources to locate and stop the French. They may have known what was happening at the time, but were unable to muster a strong enough force to stop them. Santa Fe was a very far-distant and poorly-supplied Spanish outpost in those days.

 

[mdog]

There wasn't much money (gold/silver) in Santa Fe in those days, and trade goods were scarce. A trade deal would have been lucrative, but with the amount of gold alleged to have been recovered in Spanish Colorado, I suspect that, as you say, the plan was simply to move the gold to New Orleans to avoid paying taxes in Santa Fe. That idea would hold true regardless if the mining was done by Spanish, French or anyone else in Colorado.

Here's another idea. If Spanish rogue miners had moved gold to New Orleans at an early date - perhaps a one-time score - the French may have decided to go back to the mountains and recover even more for themselves with a later expedition. One thing that always bothered me about the Treasure Mountain story was how a large French multi-year expedition could have been kept secret from the officials in Santa Fe - not that far from southern Colorado. I guess the problem for the Spanish may have been a lack of resources to locate and stop the French. They may have known what was happening at the time, but were unable to muster a strong enough force to stop them. Santa Fe was a very far-distant and poorly-supplied Spanish outpost in those days.

I wonder if the Spanish miners getting attacked and burying their gold on the Arkansas was the origin of the Treasure Mountain story and somewhere along the line the Spaniards got changed to French. Like you suggest, maybe Frenchmen, using the du Pratz map, were the people going back along the Arkansas looking for the site of the Spanish massacre. Here's a more detailed story of the Lafitte expedition up the Arkansas and it has a lot of elements of the Treasure Mountain legend. Start at chapter 6 on page 88.

https://books.google.com/books?id=i...q=early days in arkansas william pope&f=false

 

[mdog]

There wasn't much money (gold/silver) in Santa Fe in those days, and trade goods were scarce. A trade deal would have been lucrative, but with the amount of gold alleged to have been recovered in Spanish Colorado, I suspect that, as you say, the plan was simply to move the gold to New Orleans to avoid paying taxes in Santa Fe. That idea would hold true regardless if the mining was done by Spanish, French or anyone else in Colorado.

Here's another idea. If Spanish rogue miners had moved gold to New Orleans at an early date - perhaps a one-time score - the French may have decided to go back to the mountains and recover even more for themselves with a later expedition. One thing that always bothered me about the Treasure Mountain story was how a large French multi-year expedition could have been kept secret from the officials in Santa Fe - not that far from southern Colorado. I guess the problem for the Spanish may have been a lack of resources to locate and stop the French. They may have known what was happening at the time, but were unable to muster a strong enough force to stop them. Santa Fe was a very far-distant and poorly-supplied Spanish outpost in those days.

I wonder if the Mallet brothers got pulled into the Treasure Mountain legend. On their first expedition to Santa Fe, there were nine men in their party. They spent nine months in Santa Fe, wintering there in 1740. The next spring they left Santa Fe, but two of their party had married local girls, so they stayed. I believe that the brothers had approached Santa Fe from the north, so local officials could have spread the word, to their Indian allies to the north, to watch for other Frenchmen.

 

[mdog]

Part of the legend of Treasure Mountain mentions that the Utes took part of the Frenchmen's gold and hid it in the San Juan Mountains. I ran across this while searching for information about the Mallet Expedition.

The first known Spanish entrada into theSan Juan corridor took place in the summer of1765, when Juan Maria Antonio de Riveraexplored the area north and west of NewMexico in two separate expeditions. The firsttook place in June, the second in October. Hisreports commented on the landscape near theriver and the surrounding area but gave thegeneral impression of inaccessibility and unsuitabilityfor settlement. Rivera had obtained anofficial license from Governor Tomas VelezCapuchin. Royal order prohibited trade withthe Utes, probably because Spain was interestedin converting Indians, and traders often reflectedsome of the worst aspects of Catholicism. Inreality traders had preceded Rivera into the areabecause he obtained guides from one groupwhich had already contacted the Utes. Theseguides were probably part of a covert group ofcontraband traders operating out of northernNew Mexico.4Governor Capuchin ordered Rivera tosearch for the source of a silver ingot that a UteIndian had brought into Abiquiu.

Here's the link, chapter 3 page 43.

http://digitalcommons.usu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1127&context=usupress_pubs

 

[mdog]

Part of the legend of Treasure Mountain mentions that the Utes took part of the Frenchmen's gold and hid it in the San Juan Mountains. I ran across this while searching for information about the Mallet Expedition.

The first known Spanish entrada into theSan Juan corridor took place in the summer of1765, when Juan Maria Antonio de Riveraexplored the area north and west of NewMexico in two separate expeditions. The firsttook place in June, the second in October. Hisreports commented on the landscape near theriver and the surrounding area but gave thegeneral impression of inaccessibility and unsuitabilityfor settlement. Rivera had obtained anofficial license from Governor Tomas VelezCapuchin. Royal order prohibited trade withthe Utes, probably because Spain was interestedin converting Indians, and traders often reflectedsome of the worst aspects of Catholicism. Inreality traders had preceded Rivera into the areabecause he obtained guides from one groupwhich had already contacted the Utes. Theseguides were probably part of a covert group ofcontraband traders operating out of northernNew Mexico.4Governor Capuchin ordered Rivera tosearch for the source of a silver ingot that a UteIndian had brought into Abiquiu.

Here's the link, chapter 3 page 43.

http://digitalcommons.usu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1127&context=usupress_pubs

I think this is interesting, not only because of the silver ingot, but because it mentions a covert group of contraband traders operating out of northern New Mexico. If a group like this became involved in a rogue mining operation, it could explain the buried mining equipment, possible trade with the French and an escape route down the Arkansas River.

 

[mdog]

Here's a simple series of events that could be related to the Treasure Mountain legend.

Sometime before 1757- Spanish bury gold and silver on the Arkansas River after a fight with Indians. A sole survivor buried the bullion before he escaped. Page 19 of this link.

https://books.google.com/books?id=w...ohn chisholm ambassador of the plains&f=false

1757- Du Pratz map shows a gold mine (treasure) along the Arkansas River.

1762- A Ute shows up at Abiquiu with a silver ingot.

1765- The Spanish send an expedition into the San Juans looking for the source of the ingot. Chapter 3 page 43.

http://digitalcommons.usu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1127&context=usupress_pubs

1816- A large expedition travels up the Arkansas River in search of gold. Chapter 6 page 88.

https://books.google.com/books?id=i...q=early days in arkansas william pope&f=false

1826- A 20 man expedition went up the Arkansas River searching for gold (treasure). Chapter 2 page 18.

https://books.google.com/books?id=w...ohn chisholm ambassador of the plains&f=false

 

[mdog]

I'll add more to post 312 as more information is found.

 

[mdog]

https://books.google.com/books?id=w...ohn chisholm ambassador of the plains&f=false

On pages 17, 18 and 19 of the above link, Walnut Creek is mentioned, twice as the site of gold and silver recoveries and once as a destination for a treasure search. One of the treasure recoveries was made by a man who claimed to be a member of the Zebulon Pike Expedition of 1807. Walnut Creek is also mentioned in this account of the Pike Expedition.

Zebulon Pike's Expedition To The Southwest 1806-1807

Pike spent a week in this area and then his party separated with Lt. Wilkinson going down the Arkansas River and eventually to St. Louis. Wilkinson was the son of General James Wilkinson who was a spy for the Spanish and a traitor who planned to build an empire in Louisiana Territory. If this is the same Walnut Creek for all these events, it seems strange that Pike would spend so much time there and then split his party. Pike was also at several sites in Colorado where there were legends of Spanish mines. He was also getting pretty close to the San Juan Mountain area when he was captured by the Spanish. Kinda makes you wonder if Wilkinson had him on a treasure search.

 

[UncleMatt]

Something to consider in all this is that the local lore about the Utes in the 1800's in southwest Colorado is that they did not value precious metals, and indeed ridiculed the white man for placing value on it at all. As well, there are stories of the Utes covering up placer deposits and hiding precious metals simply to reduce the likelihood of the white man further invading their land in search of it. Of course this may not have been universal among the Utes, and some of them may have tried to capitalize on the white man's interest in gold and silver even if they did not understand why it was valuable to the white man. But considering the trip from southern Colorado near Treasure Mountain to Abiquiu would have taken at least 5 days in perfect weather, and that a Ute would face cultural obstacles once he arrived there, one has to wonder how likely it would have been for a Ute to take a silver ingot that distance hoping to trade it for something valuable once he arrived. It was more likely a Ute would have simply been killed and the ingot taken.

 

[sdcfia]

https://books.google.com/books?id=w...ohn chisholm ambassador of the plains&f=false

On pages 17, 18 and 19 of the above link, Walnut Creek is mentioned, twice as the site of gold and silver recoveries and once as a destination for a treasure search. One of the treasure recoveries was made by a man who claimed to be a member of the Zebulon Pike Expedition of 1807. Walnut Creek is also mentioned in this account of the Pike Expedition.

Zebulon Pike's Expedition To The Southwest 1806-1807

Pike spent a week in this area and then his party separated with Lt. Wilkinson going down the Arkansas River and eventually to St. Louis. Wilkinson was the son of General James Wilkinson who was a spy for the Spanish and a traitor who planned to build an empire in Louisiana Territory. If this is the same Walnut Creek for all these events, it seems strange that Pike would spend so much time there and then split his party. Pike was also at several sites in Colorado where there were legends of Spanish mines. He was also getting pretty close to the San Juan Mountain area when he was captured by the Spanish. Kinda makes you wonder if Wilkinson had him on a treasure search.

Hmmm. Walnut Creek joins the Arkansas River at today's Arkansas City, about 50 miles downstream from today's Wichita, where the mouth of the Little Arkansas River is. I wonder if there may have been a misidentification of the alleged mining/cache site in the various records. That's understandable, as place names were changed, misplaced, mis-mapped, etc. frequently in the early days. An easy mistake to make by travelers, writers, etc.

 

[Auhunt]

Excellent read hope it there.

 

[mdog]

Hmmm. Walnut Creek joins the Arkansas River at today's Arkansas City, about 50 miles downstream from today's Wichita, where the mouth of the Little Arkansas River is. I wonder if there may have been a misidentification of the alleged mining/cache site in the various records. That's understandable, as place names were changed, misplaced, mis-mapped, etc. frequently in the early days. An easy mistake to make by travelers, writers, etc.

Good catch, Sdc. Thank you. The Walnut Creek by Arkansas City is probably where the treasure search took place. There is a Walnut Creek by Big Bend and that is probably the one where Pike camped.

 

[Dirt1955]

Anyone. Karl Von Mueller (Deek Gladson) wrote about Valley of Secrets. I can't get my hands on his book "Treasure of the Valley of Secrets". I am sure Karl visited the valley in his time. Hardrock Hendricks wife Faye writes that Hardrock explored the valley in her book "the travels of Hardrock Hendricks" and the book by Walter Hurt titled The Scarlet Shadow tells the story of the valley of secrets and places it in the vicinity of the Culebra range 50 miles west of Trinidad Colorado. Does anyone following the story of Treasure Mtn know exactly where the valley of secrets supposedly is located? If so, have you been there? I would like to mount an expedition and document the location as pertains to the story in the Scarlet Shadow. I believe KVM and his associates visited the location they believed was the Valley of Secrets.

 

[mdog]

Anyone. Karl Von Mueller (Deek Gladson) wrote about Valley of Secrets. I can't get my hands on his book "Treasure of the Valley of Secrets". I am sure Karl visited the valley in his time. Hardrock Hendricks wife Faye writes that Hardrock explored the valley in her book "the travels of Hardrock Hendricks" and the book by Walter Hurt titled The Scarlet Shadow tells the story of the valley of secrets and places it in the vicinity of the Culebra range 50 miles west of Trinidad Colorado. Does anyone following the story of Treasure Mtn know exactly where the valley of secrets supposedly is located? If so, have you been there? I would like to mount an expedition and document the location as pertains to the story in the Scarlet Shadow. I believe KVM and his associates visited the location they believed was the Valley of Secrets.

You might find something on Randy's thread.

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/t...sure-ultimate-treasurenet-resource-guide.html