Treasure Mountain, CO - Lost Frenchmens Gold

[tamrock]

Thanks Patrick. I taped part of a Myth Hunter show about Treasure Mountain today and it was hosted by Christopher O Brian.

I had that episode recorded, then during the holidays the TV went on the blink. The Dish Network guy came and said the harddisk in the main box went out and he'll give me a replacement box. He was sorry to say all my recordings are now unrecoverable. I had a few myth hunter shows to review. Thing is that Treasure Mountain show on myth hunters was like most all the other stories. Still the main source of this tail remains to be discovered I believe?

 

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[mdog]

I had that episode recorded, then during the holidays the TV went on the blink. The Dish Network guy came and said the harddisk in the main box went out and he'll give me a replacement box. He was sorry to say all my recordings are now unrecoverable. I had a few myth hunter shows to review. Thing is that Treasure Mountain show on myth hunters was like most all the other stories. Still the main source of this tail remains to be discovered I believe?

Yes, the show pretty much followed the storyline of the Ward articles, except for the events of 1993.

 

[PatrickD]

ok, I am about to get busy watching videos.

Just out of curiosity, I went out to youtubecom. I entered the search phrase "treasure mountain Colorado".

The results were better than I expected.

Check it out when you get time.

P.

 

[tamrock]

Who knows the real truth of this mystery?. I do know that the location as the story goes was a gold producing region. The mine at Summitville was a grade mine and my neighbor in Buena Vista, Colo. worked there in the 1980s until things went way wrong giving a real bad taste to all mining to the folks of Colorado. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summitville_mine I have thought that these early miners of the Treasure Mountain saga may have stash the high grade ore someplace that came from the area of the Summitville deposit? I'm now curious to dig deeper in to the real source of this tail. Check out that ore specimen in the link provided. It's not hard at all in determining what all consists in that specimen, just by looking at it.

 

[sdcfia]

Who knows the real truth of this mystery?. I do know that the location as the story goes was a gold producing region. The mine at Summitville was a grade mine and my neighbor in Buena Vista, Colo. worked there in the 1980s until things went way wrong giving a real bad taste to all mining to the folks of Colorado. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summitville_mine I have thought that these early miners of the Treasure Mountain saga may have stash the high grade ore someplace that came from the area of the Summitville deposit? I'm now curious to dig deeper in to the real source of this tail. Check out that ore specimen in the link provided. It's not hard at all in determining what all consists in that specimen, just by looking at it.

The earliest prospectors in mineralized country were after placer gold - easy to find, easy to recover, often found in quantity in virgin streams. Exploiting the lode deposits in the surrounding terrain was a whole other ballgame. Those fortunes were made by the later waves of miners into the area. IMO, if the French stories are true, it was most likely placer gold that they accumulated.

 

[tamrock]

The earliest prospectors in mineralized country were after placer gold - easy to find, easy to recover, often found in quantity in virgin streams. Exploiting the lode deposits in the surrounding terrain was a whole other ballgame. Those fortunes were made by the later waves of miners into the area. IMO, if the French stories are true, it was most likely placer gold that they accumulated.

I agree, but if some old fur trapper happen to stumble on an outcrop of native visible gold ore. I'm sure he would have investigated it further and even took samples to show others to see what they think it is, saying "does this look like gold in rock to you??. Native gold no mater the source looks like gold and I don't think that would have been overlooked. These Rocky Mountains can cover up traces of mining activity pretty well in some places. When I lived in Leadville there was a rock slide that happened in the late 70's early 80's ? that washed out the tracks to the train that serviced the Climax mine. That slide left a big, very visible scar of rock and rubble that you could clearly see on the base of the mountain. It looked like a mine tailing. Today if I took a few of you to that spot and asked you to point out where that 40 year old rock slide was I bet you'd have to look for a time as it's so covered up with big pines and shrubs now it all looks like all the other slides that happened hundreds of years ago. So no one can really say for sure what source the gold of this lost treasure came from if the story's true. Underground hard rock mining really wouldn't have been out of the question in this era imo. They could have done it the sameway the the Romans mined underground ore deposits. Labor intensive with modern steel made picks and shovels of the time they would have used. The Egyptians and Romans did amazing drift driving with copper tools. That could be why there was said to be 300 men involved. Either way a force of that many, could have got a lot of work done I'm thinking.

 

[mdog]

I posted a link to a map, earlier in the thread, that shows the region from Mississippi to Santa Fe.

Carte nouvelle de la partie de l'Ouest de la province de la Louisiane sur les observations et découvertes du Sieur Benard de la Harpe... / dressé par le Sr de Beauvilliers... | Gallica

I believe it was made during the 1740s but I'm not sure. Looking at this section of the map, you can see Santa Fe and the village of the Padouka Noirs to the northwest.



Here's a rough translation of the Padouka noir caption. "Villages of the black Padoukas which the Spaniards read from gold by caravans to the Tiguas around these mountains." During one of the early French explorations of this region, the French explorers were told that Spanish miners would come to this village to trade with the Padoukas. The Spanish came from the mountains to the west where they were mining gold with Indian slaves. I've read one account that said La Harpe had this information and another that said Bourgmont. Maybe both had it, maybe others. This map mentions La Harpe, but most of the information on the map came from other sources because La Harpe wasn't in most of these places. Here's something curious about the map. If you look at the position of Santa Fe, you will see that it's at latitude 36 deg and half of a degree, I'm not sure if that's .5 of a degree or 30' out of 60. Anyway, on google earth, Santa Fe is at 35 deg 41' so the map is a degree off. I guess the little circle with the cross on it, shows the location of the Padouka village at 38 deg 30', if half of a degree on the map is 30'. If that location is off a full degree, like the Santa Fe location, that would put the village at 37 deg 30'. The latitude of Treasure Mountain (Citadel Mountain) is 37 deg 27'.

 

[mdog]

I posted a link to a map, earlier in the thread, that shows the region from Mississippi to Santa Fe.

Carte nouvelle de la partie de l'Ouest de la province de la Louisiane sur les observations et découvertes du Sieur Benard de la Harpe... / dressé par le Sr de Beauvilliers... | Gallica

I believe it was made during the 1740s but I'm not sure. Looking at this section of the map, you can see Santa Fe and the village of the Padouka Noirs to the northwest.

View attachment 1402102

Here's a rough translation of the Padouka noir caption. "Villages of the black Padoukas which the Spaniards read from gold by caravans to the Tiguas around these mountains." During one of the early French explorations of this region, the French explorers were told that Spanish miners would come to this village to trade with the Padoukas. The Spanish came from the mountains to the west where they were mining gold with Indian slaves. I've read one account that said La Harpe had this information and another that said Bourgmont. Maybe both had it, maybe others. This map mentions La Harpe, but most of the information on the map came from other sources because La Harpe wasn't in most of these places. Here's something curious about the map. If you look at the position of Santa Fe, you will see that it's at latitude 36 deg and half of a degree, I'm not sure if that's .5 of a degree or 30' out of 60. Anyway, on google earth, Santa Fe is at 35 deg 41' so the map is a degree off. I guess the little circle with the cross on it, shows the location of the Padouka village at 38 deg 30', if half of a degree on the map is 30'. If that location is off a full degree, like the Santa Fe location, that would put the village at 37 deg 30'. The latitude of Treasure Mountain (Citadel Mountain) is 37 deg 27'.

What am I missing here? At any rate, The French would have known that the Spanish were mining in this area during 1720 and probably before that.

 

[mdog]

Here's something else that seems interesting. Here's an excerpt from a letter written by a French Jesuit priest.

To reach my final destination I shall have to cross nearly the whole of North America; but my course is so ordered, that instead of passing by the Mississippi River, when I have got as far as Missilinakinac, where Father Saint P£ is stationed, I shall take a northwest direction, and shall traverse all the great lakes which lie on this side and beyond the sources of the Mississippi, until I come to the lake of the Assiniboels. I shall leave that post only in the spring, to journey on three or four hundred leagues beyond, in quest of the Ouant Chipouanes, so that my course then will be southwest.Such, Reverend Father, is the route I shall follow towards an objective point which you see is very indefinite and uncertain, since all we know about it is founded on the reports of other Indians, who, for the most part, have little scruple in speaking differently from what they think.If what they add concerning the place where the Ouant Chipouanes dwell be true, I should say that these cannot be very far from California, for, if we are to believe their reports, the Ouant Chipouanes dwell on the shores of a great river where there is an ebb and flow in the stream, which would go to show that the sea cannot be very far off. It is not easy to determine what river this is. I am led to surmise, however, that it is no other than the great river which Father King, a German Jesuit, mentions in the map which he traced of the regions lying to the north of California, and which he calls the Rio Colorado de Norte. Seethe fifth collection of the Lettres Edifiantes*
* I have not been able to find this map of California in the Lettret Edifianies.4​

Whatever be the truth relative to these conjectures and to the place where these Indians dwell, I am deputed to go in quest of them, and to establish a mission among them if it be possible. All this, Reverend Father, is much beyond my strength, wherefore I have placed myself and whatever betides my enterprise in the hands of our Lord. l!eg Him to prepare me for every eventuality according to His holy and divine will. Do not forget, either, to send me some nourishment for my soul; nothing could please me more than what you might suggest, by way ofencouragement, to animate me to serve and love Him who alone deserves our service and our love.

Mdog here. When he says 300-400 leagues to the southwest, he's starting at Lake of the Woods up in Canada. I know there are variations with the length of a league. The distance from Lake of the woods to the Treasure Mountain area is 980 miles. Also, he mentions Father King, I think he meant Father Kino who explored in Arizona(?). I think Ouant Chipouanes means those who dwell in holes.​

 

[mdog]

Here's the link for the letters of Father Aulneau.

https://books.google.com/books?id=h...port&dq=letters+of+father+Aulneau&output=text

 

[mdog]

I looked back in the thread and I found three potential dates for the initial journey to Colorado and the recovery of the gold described in the legend of Treasure Mountain, 1756, 1770 and 1799. I think the best date for an expedition of that size, would have been at some time between 1725 and 1758. The other two dates would have been during the time when the British or Americans claimed most of the land east of the Mississippi River. Something else that surprised me, during my research, was the number of spies used by all the parties involved, Spanish, French, English and Americans. I don't think an expedition of 350 men and 450 pack animals could go unnoticed. Here's a map I copied to show a network of main trails that start at Detroit and move into northern Colorado. The pink marker shows the trail and the green spots show French settlements of the period. The section of trail that goes from the Mississippi River east to Detroit was called the Sauk Trail. That trail continued west to the Platte River and then to northern Colorado. This trail would require the use of horses because, from what I've read, The Platte wasn't navigable for canoes or other water craft. I've also wondered about the availability of horses during that time, but from this link, that might not have been a problem.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_horse

 

[mdog]

There was also a main trail that went from the Des Moines, Iowa area down to the number 2 spot on the map, Fort Cavagnial, just above Fort Leavenworth. This would have been close to the network of trails that became the Santa Fe Trail. The name of the trail from Des Moines to Ft. Leavenworth was the Dragoon Trace.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragoon_Trace

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_de_Cavagnial

 

[mdog]

Another good reason for the French to use the Platte, they had a trading relationship with the Pawnee. Some historians believe the Pawnee were the tribe who attacked the Villasur expedition. Surviving members of the expedition claim that there were Frenchmen in the attacking force.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Villasur_expedition

 

[mdog]

In post #269, I mentioned a Father Aulneau who was to make journey from Lake of the Woods, Canada, to a place 300-400 leagues to the southwest. He might have been able to make a lot of that trip by water, going downstream.

 

[mdog]

Here's a map I posted a couple days ago.

Carte nouvelle de la partie de l'Ouest de la province de la Louisiane sur les observations et découvertes du Sieur Benard de la Harpe... / dressé par le Sr de Beauvilliers... | Gallica

Here is a section of that map showing two Padouka Villages as well as Santa Fe.



Out of all the villages on the map, even Santa Fe, the lettering on these two Padouka villages is noticeably larger. Maybe to draw your attention to them. They also have information that mentions the Spanish and gold, by the Padouka Noir village.

Here's a link that describes a de Lisle map.

https://uta-ir.tdl.org/uta-ir/bitst...sh_uta_2502M_10007.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y

 

[PatrickD]

Hi Everyone,

I have a suggestion. There are a couple good websites to research old books. You know, the kind that are out of print and so old the copyright is in the public domain. I have found some really good treasure related books including some in the Treasure Mountain area. These sites are free and have a really good search option.

https://archive.org/details/texts

https://www.gutenberg.org/

Check them out and see if there are books that can help.

Patrick

 

[mdog]

I started reading this link tonight.

https://kuscholarworks.ku.edu/bitst...Dinneen_FrenchInKS_wSupplement.pdf?sequence=5

On page 25 I came across this footnote.

118 . A gold mine (or buried treasure) was the quest of a party of men who were guided in1836 by Jesse Chisholm, from the state of Arkansas to the mouth of the Little ArkansasRiver in Sedgwick County. Barry, Beginning of the West, 317; Mead, “The LittleArkansas,” 9. Enrico Martinez named a river “River of Gold.

Then I found this link with the following paragraph.

Of the history of the Little Arkansas prior to 1860 but little is known. In Du Pratz's map of Louisiana, published in 1757, in which the course of the Arkansas is properly laid down, at the junction of the two rivers is marked "A Gold Mine." In 1836, Jesse Chisholm guided a party from Arkansas, in search of this mine or of buried treasure, to the mouth of the Little Arkansas. There is a tradition that long ago a party from New Mexico, descending the river in boats, were surrounded by Indians in the night at this point, and after a siege of several days were all killed but one, who escaped, after he had buried their gold and silver. Recently parties dug for two years in search of this treasure. Whether found or not, this valley has proven to be a gold mine to the industrious agriculturist.

https://books.google.com/books?pg=P...bA&id=045uAAAAMAAJ&ots=02w5pjH_vB&output=text

This story might be worth researching.

 

[mdog]

Here's the Du Pratz map showing the gold mine (buried treasure).

https://www.raremaps.com/gallery/enlarge/26414

 

[mdog]

Anybody ever heard of any deposits of gold in this part of Kansas? The reason I ask is, if there isn't any gold in the area, maybe Du Pratz was marking the location of buried treasure in his map of 1757. The map was also made after the 1756 Treasure Mountain story.

 

[mdog]

Also, check out the latitudes on the section of the map I attached to post 275 and compare them on the Du Pratz map. It looks like they show the same Padouka village at about 38 and 1/2 degrees. On the 1720 map this village is the one the Spanish gold miners were trading with. On the Du Pratz map, the gold mine is marked downstream from this village and almost at the same latitude.