Treasure Mountain, CO - Lost Frenchmens Gold

[mdog]

Here's the French version, if anybody is interested.

Barry Lawrence Ruderman Antique Maps Inc.

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

A History of Mining on the Kenai Peninsula, Alaska - Grab it through Amazon!

[sdcfia]

Anybody ever heard of any deposits of gold in this part of Kansas? The reason I ask is, if there isn't any gold in the area, maybe Du Pratz was marking the location of buried treasure in his map of 1757. The map was also made after the 1756 Treasure Mountain story.

Great find, dog. There is no history of gold to speak of mined in Kansas. Therefore, you could likely bet that this was a cache that Chisholm was allegedly seeking. It sure helps support the allegations of French involvement with gold mining in Colorado, aka the Treasure Mountain legends. Here's another mention, from https://www.kshs.org/p/kansas-historical-quarterly-the-chisholm-trail/12670 :

"In the spring of 1864 the affiliated bands comprising the Wichita Indians, about 1,500 in number, began their trek northward. Their ultimate destination was the mouth of the Little Arkansas river, the site of present Wichita, where they made their village. With them was Jesse Chisholm, a half-breed Cherokee Indian, who established a trading post there in the same year. [10] He was quite familiar with this territory as he had guided a party from Arkansas in search of buried treasure to the mouth of the Little Arkansas in 1836, and had made many subsequent trips. [11]...
...
11. Mead, "The Little Arkansas," Kansas Historical Collections, v. X (1907-1908), p. 9.

That Mead book might prove interesting. He was the founder of Wichita KS, at the mouth of the Little Arkansas, where the alleged cache was located.

 

[mdog]

Great find, dog. There is no history of gold to speak of mined in Kansas. Therefore, you could likely bet that this was a cache that Chisholm was allegedly seeking. It sure helps support the allegations of French involvement with gold mining in Colorado, aka the Treasure Mountain legends. Here's another mention, from https://www.kshs.org/p/kansas-historical-quarterly-the-chisholm-trail/12670 :

"In the spring of 1864 the affiliated bands comprising the Wichita Indians, about 1,500 in number, began their trek northward. Their ultimate destination was the mouth of the Little Arkansas river, the site of present Wichita, where they made their village. With them was Jesse Chisholm, a half-breed Cherokee Indian, who established a trading post there in the same year. [10] He was quite familiar with this territory as he had guided a party from Arkansas in search of buried treasure to the mouth of the Little Arkansas in 1836, and had made many subsequent trips. [11]...
...
11. Mead, "The Little Arkansas," Kansas Historical Collections, v. X (1907-1908), p. 9.

That Mead book might prove interesting. He was the founder of Wichita KS, at the mouth of the Little Arkansas, where the alleged cache was located.

Thanks, Sdcfia. The story does fit in well with the Treasure Mountain legend, buried gold, lone survivor, even the part about an expedition going back to look for the gold. You could really let your imagination run wild with this. The location was marked on the Du Pratz map in 1757 so the gold mining expedition would have been before that. The sole survivor must have talked or else there were others involved in the gold recovery operation who didn't make the trip. St. Louis hadn't been settled, at that time, so the guys who were wiped out, were probably headed to New Orleans which was still under French control. Du Pratz was an interesting character too. Here are some links about him.

http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~gsayre/LPDP.html

Archives Coloniale, Correspondence Generale, C13a vol

Louisiana in 1757 | Discovering Lewis & Clark ®

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dumont_de_Montigny

Dumont was on the La Harpe expedition.

 

[tamrock]

Here's the French version, if anybody is interested.

Barry Lawrence Ruderman Antique Maps Inc.

Very interesting map, but grossly disproportionate. My guess on the location of the gold mine is a interpretation from a French frontiersman who explored the upper regions of the the Arkansas river in the rocky's and described where they were finding gold in the river to a map maker only by recollection and leaving out many details, distances and landmarks. It looks to me like this small tributary running into the Arkansas could be California gulch where I've had the thought these 300 Frenchmen were doing all this gold mining. Notice in the area of the Mississippi of Missouri and Illinois, marked Mine de la mothe d' Argent or (silver). The French were looking for and even finding a little silver in this region in the early 18th century, but lead proved to be more abundant and useful during the French revolution. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mine_La_Motte,_Missouri Thanks for the map I find it very interesting to study.

 

[mdog]

Very interesting map, but grossly disproportionate. My guess on the location of the gold mine is a interpretation from a French frontiersman who explored the upper regions of the the Arkansas river in the rocky's and described where they were finding gold in the river to a map maker only by recollection and leaving out many details, distances and landmarks. It looks to me like this small tributary running into the Arkansas could be California gulch where I've had the thought these 300 Frenchmen were doing all this gold mining. Notice in the area of the Mississippi of Missouri and Illinois, marked Mine de la mothe d' Argent or (silver). The French were looking for and even finding a little silver in this region in the early 18th century, but lead proved to be more abundant and useful during the French revolution. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mine_La_Motte,_Missouri Thanks for the map I find it very interesting to study.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Gulch

Dumont, a member of the La Harpe expedition, mentions a small stream, going into the Arkansas River, where he recovered some flakes of gold. I'm looking for more information about the treasure legend on the Little Arkansas. Could just be one more clue that leads to another clue that leads to another clue and on and on.

 

[tamrock]

I looked up California Gulch and that place is only 50 miles from Treasure Mountain, if I'm looking at the right place. It makes sense as a place that might connect to the Treasure Mountain legend.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Gulch

I don't see where it goes into the Arkansas River though. What is the easiest way to get from there to the Arkansas River and could they pass Treasure Mountain on the way out?

Dumont, a member of the La Harpe expedition, mentions a small stream, going into the Arkansas River, where he recovered some flakes of gold. I'm looking for more information about the treasure legend on the Little Arkansas. Could just be one more clue that leads to another clue that leads to another clue and on and on.

There are two places named California Gulch in Colorado. The one in your link is the one I'm referencing. It's in Lake County. The other place named California gulch 50 miles from Treasure Mountain is in San Juan county. Does anyone know when and who gave the name to Treasure mountain of this story? I read a book that told a story of a trappers time in the Rockies and he mentioned an Indian battle he witnessed between two tribes that took place around 1854 in a place I know well called South Park. He said the battle took place at a creek they would then call Battle Creek and it was still known to this day as Battle Creek in South Park. The book was printed in 1899 and I've looked over topo maps and google for a Battle Creek in South Park today and there is none. I can only think that the creek goes by a different name these days? Just because a mountain is called Treasure mountain today doesn't mean there wasn't another mountain called treasure mountain to these French 218 years ago?

 

[mdog]

There are two places named California Gulch in Colorado. The one in your link is the one I'm referencing. It's in Lake County. The other place named California gulch 50 miles from Treasure Mountain is in San Juan county. Does anyone know when and who gave the name to Treasure mountain of this story? I read a book that told a story of a trappers time in the Rockies and he mentioned an Indian battle he witnessed between two tribes that took place around 1854 in a place I know well called South Park. He said the battle took place at a creek they would then call Battle Creek and it was still known to this day as Battle Creek in South Park. The book was printed in 1899 and I've looked over topo maps and google for a Battle Creek in South Park today and there is none. I can only think that the creek goes by a different name these days? Just because a mountain is called Treasure mountain today doesn't mean there wasn't another mountain called treasure mountain to these French 218 years ago?

Sorry, and thanks for the correction. I edited that out of my post.

I don't know when the name Treasure Mountain was first used. According to author Maynard Cornett Adams, the French called it Citadel Mountain but who knows what anybody else called it before the Treasure Mountain name. Adams also introduced Captain Louis de Villemont into the legend. I'm going to have to make the time to try to contact some of the families Adams mentions in his book.

The Lake County area works in well with Adams account of the legend. It also works in well with my theory about the French using the east-west trail I describe in my previous post.

 

[tamrock]

Sorry, and thanks for the correction. I edited that out of my post.

I don't know when the name Treasure Mountain was first used. According to author Maynard Cornett Adams, the French called it Citadel Mountain but who knows what anybody else called it before the Treasure Mountain name. Adams also introduced Captain Louis de Villemont into the legend. I'm going to have to make the time to try to contact some of the families Adams mentions in his book.

The Lake County area works in well with Adams account of the legend. It also works in well with my theory about the French using the east-west trail I describe in my previous post.

It also works in well with my theory about the French using the east-west trail I describe in my previous post. DITTO

 

[sdcfia]

There are two places named California Gulch in Colorado. The one in your link is the one I'm referencing. It's in Lake County. The other place named California gulch 50 miles from Treasure Mountain is in San Juan county. Does anyone know when and who gave the name to Treasure mountain of this story? I read a book that told a story of a trappers time in the Rockies and he mentioned an Indian battle he witnessed between two tribes that took place around 1854 in a place I know well called South Park. He said the battle took place at a creek they would then call Battle Creek and it was still known to this day as Battle Creek in South Park. The book was printed in 1899 and I've looked over topo maps and google for a Battle Creek in South Park today and there is none. I can only think that the creek goes by a different name these days? Just because a mountain is called Treasure mountain today doesn't mean there wasn't another mountain called treasure mountain to these French 218 years ago?

Place names have constantly changed, especially in the west. Significant detective work is often needed to figure out what is what, where is where and when was when, even with the "authoritive" series of USGS topo maps for specific locales. In the case of the Treasure Mountain legends, you can probably forget trying to match landmarks allegedly described in early French reports against today's place names (with the likely exception of the Arkansas River), unless the landmarks possess some unmistakable physical characteristics that might be inferred ("a flat-topped mountain," "twin peaks", "mile-long escarpment", eg). The actual names themselves tend to change with newcomers. That's why it's important to use all possible maps you can obtain for your projects - from the oldest to the newest. Older issue maps (especially USGS quads) tend to show trails, skirmish sites, settlements, structures, cultural remains - even obsolete place names - that were deleted from later editions.

 

[mdog]

[FONT=times new roman, new york, times, serif]I've posted before about a Jesuit priest named Pierre Aulneau who was killed in 1736 by Indians near Lake of the Woods, Canada. He was sent from Quebec with directions to open a mission 300-400 leagues SW of this lake. Here's an excerpt from his letters.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]To reach my final destination I shall have to cross nearly the whole of North America; but my course is so ordered, that instead of passing by the Mississippi River, when I have got as far as Missilinakinac, where Father Saint P£ is stationed, I shall take a northwest direction, and shall traverse all the great lakes which lie on this side and beyond the sources of the Mississippi, until I come to the lake of the Assiniboels. I shall leave that post only in the spring, to journey on three or four hundred leagues beyond, in quest of the Ouant Chipouanes, so that my course then will be southwest.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Mdog here. That distance to the southwest would have put him somewhere in Colorado and he would have started his journey in 1737. Aulneau would have been guided by one of the Verendryes. Here's another excerpt.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]If what they add concerning the place where the Ouant Chipouanes dwell be true, I should say that these cannot be very far from California, for, if we are to believe their reports, the Ouant Chipouanes dwell on the shores of a great river where there is an ebb and flow in the stream, which would go to show that the sea cannot be very far off. It is not easy to determine what river this is. I am led to surmise, however, that it is no other than the great river which Father King, a German Jesuit, mentions in the map which he traced of the regions lying to the north of California, and which he calls the Rio Colorado de Norte.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Mdog here. So he mentions a Jesuit Father King (Kino) and the Colorado River, which has an ebb and flow from the Gulf of California. So, how would he have gotten from Lake of the Woods to the Colorado River. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]During 1739, the Mallet brothers started an unauthorized expedition to New Mexico seeking trade. They went up the Missouri River to an Arikara village. Here's an excerpt from a description of the expedition.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Up till now, all of those who
tried to travel to New Mexico thought they would find it at
the sources of the Missouri, and to accomplish this, they
ascended as far as the Arikaras, who are more than 150
leagues from the Pawnees. On the advice of some natives, the
explorers took an entirely different route, and leaving the
Pawnees, they traveled overland, retracing their steps
roughly parallel to the Missouri.
Mdog here. The Mallets went south to the Platte River and then west into Colorado. The Arikaras were probably somewhere close to what is now Pierre, South Dakota. Pierre, South Dakota is where a lead tablet was found in the early 1900's.


European exploration of the area began in 1742 when Francois and Louis-Joseph Verendrye embarked on an expedition to find a water route to the Pacific Ocean. On March 30, 1743, after visiting with local Arikaras, the Verendrye brothers buried a lead plate on a small hill overlooking present-day Fort Pierre, South Dakota. Discovered by a group of local teenagers in 1913, the plate claimed the region for France and documented the Verendryes as the first known French Canadian explorers on the northern plains.


So the Verendryes knew this location and probably knew the same trail south that the Mallets used to get to the Platte. This is probably the route the Verendryes would have used to take Father Aulneau to the southwest, if he had lived. So where would he have gone if he had made it to Colorado? Aulneau mentioned the Colorado River. There is a spot close to Leadville where the source of three rivers meet within a few miles of each other, the Colorado River, the Platte River and the Arkansas River. This is at a rich, gold and silver producing area, as mentioned by Tamrock. The Arkansas River is a part of the Treasure Mountain legend. So from this one spot, you can go NE to Canada, SE to New Orleans and SW to Arizona by following rivers and a major land trail from the Missouri River to Detroit. Something these three regions had in common, during the early 1700's, is the Jesuits had significant influence in Canada, New Orleans and, from what I understand, Arizona.


This is just circumstantial evidence of possible French and Jesuit involvement in Colorado gold and silver mining that I thought would be interesting in the Treasure Mountain thread.


[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]

 

[mdog]

I looked back in the thread and I found three potential dates for the initial journey to Colorado and the recovery of the gold described in the legend of Treasure Mountain, 1756, 1770 and 1799. I think the best date for an expedition of that size, would have been at some time between 1725 and 1758. The other two dates would have been during the time when the British or Americans claimed most of the land east of the Mississippi River. Something else that surprised me, during my research, was the number of spies used by all the parties involved, Spanish, French, English and Americans. I don't think an expedition of 350 men and 450 pack animals could go unnoticed. Here's a map I copied to show a network of main trails that start at Detroit and move into northern Colorado. The pink marker shows the trail and the green spots show French settlements of the period. The section of trail that goes from the Mississippi River east to Detroit was called the Sauk Trail. That trail continued west to the Platte River and then to northern Colorado. This trail would require the use of horses because, from what I've read, The Platte wasn't navigable for canoes or other water craft. I've also wondered about the availability of horses during that time, but from this link, that might not have been a problem.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_horse

View attachment 1402595

During the year 1735, a French expedition pursued what was left of the Fox Tribe to central Iowa. The expedition started in Montreal and its purpose was to wipe out the Fox. There were about 80 French and 200 of their Indian allies in the force and they marched from Detroit to the area, where modern day Des Moines is, in the dead of winter. Although the exact route is unclear, they probably used the trails I describe in my post. This shows that, in the early 1700s, the French were capable of mounting a large expedition that traveled hundreds of miles. It also shows that the French were familiar with the trails moving from east to west.

Iowa History Special Project

 

[mdog]

Here's an excerpt from an article about French plans to exploit the copper deposits of upper Michigan. The excerpt describes the workers needed for the mining operation.

They told me that all along the Grand River they had found several veins of ore, which they call mother lodes. They say that there is a very good one at the Chaudières 40 leagues from Montreal, and, there is no portage to be made throughout that distance. There is only the Long saut1 up which the canoes have to be taken by Tracking and poling, and in going down the loaded canoes run the rapid in the middle of the river. There are Nipissing savages who live on the spot and who act as pilots. But without making use of that tribe we have very good Frenchmen who are just as skilful as they at this work. I think that a settlement should be established on the River Ste Anne, and that it would be advisable to bring out miners from Germany, founders, Carpenters, and blacksmiths; of these we shall need eight Miners, two founders, a Carpenter, a mason, and a blacksmith, and they must come from the Mines of Germany so that they may be thoroughly conversant with what they have to do, and all should be for the River Ste Anne. With regard to the Charcoal-burners and woodcutters we shall find enough of them in Canada. We shall also require two Additional Miners to be stationed at the Chaudières with four good men from among those salt-smugglers

Mdog here. Here's the article.

Canku Ota - May 17, 2003 - French Era Copper Mining History on Lake Superior (Part 3)

 

[mdog]

I thought the request for the salt smugglers was interesting. About this time, France was taking salt smugglers out of their prisons and sending them to New France. Hundreds of them were sent over and most of those, who survived the crossing, eventually disappeared into the wilderness. Probably not unusual for that time, but I wonder if the smugglers had useful skills or if they were just considered slave labor.

 

[mdog]

My last three posts were put in this Treasure Mountain thread because I thought they might show that a large French mining expedition could have traveled hundreds of miles to Colorado during the mid 1700s.

 

[sdcfia]

My last three posts were put in this Treasure Mountain thread because I thought they might show that a large French mining expedition could have traveled hundreds of miles to Colorado during the mid 1700s.

The French had a big advantage in their explorations being at higher latitudes and having rivers to follow. This gave them easy access to water, lots of game to hunt, and significant additional natural food choices (nuts, berries, greens, etc) at certain areas along their routes, not to mention abundant forage for their livestock. Feeding the troops was critical when moving lots of men, animals and supplies through unsettled country. They did get starved out and had to retreat from Des Moines, but that was a military punitive operation in the dead of winter, with heavy resistance from the natives - not an organized steady journey. Compare these conditions with those of the Spanish mining ventures in the Southwest (mostly alleged, by the way, not documented), who had scant water, less game, fewer natural edibles and scarcer grass for the horses. When you look at it this way, the alleged Treasure Mountain expedition in the 1700s seems quite feasible. It seems to me that it would have been easier to make it work with, say, 50 men rather than 300. Think about those French trapping parties who worked the streams all over the Rockies. They traveled light, lived off the land (with the help of natives in some cases), amassed hundreds of pounds of fur pelts (which they cached in numerous locations to be recovered later). A placer mining operation would have been quite similar, it seems to me.

 

[mdog]

The French had a big advantage in their explorations being at higher latitudes and having rivers to follow. This gave them easy access to water, lots of game to hunt, and significant additional natural food choices (nuts, berries, greens, etc) at certain areas along their routes, not to mention abundant forage for their livestock. Feeding the troops was critical when moving lots of men, animals and supplies through unsettled country. They did get starved out and had to retreat from Des Moines, but that was a military punitive operation in the dead of winter, with heavy resistance from the natives - not an organized steady journey. Compare these conditions with those of the Spanish mining ventures in the Southwest (mostly alleged, by the way, not documented), who had scant water, less game, fewer natural edibles and scarcer grass for the horses. When you look at it this way, the alleged Treasure Mountain expedition in the 1700s seems quite feasible. It seems to me that it would have been easier to make it work with, say, 50 men rather than 300. Think about those French trapping parties who worked the streams all over the Rockies. They traveled light, lived off the land (with the help of natives in some cases), amassed hundreds of pounds of fur pelts (which they cached in numerous locations to be recovered later). A placer mining operation would have been quite similar, it seems to me.

A smaller party does seem more logical.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

So, it IS possible that the Beale Expedition from Lynchburg, VA. to St. Louis, MO. to Colorado, (1817-1822) did happen with @ 31 men, who discovered "GOLD"... bringing it back to Virginia, TWICE...? SMALL group of men in military "formation" & a "French" guide from St. Louis (from New France aka Canada)... who guided them down Santa Fe Trail to Santa Fe... YET! SOME of their "crew" went NORTH to Colorado finding GOLD? MAYBE, "placer" GOLD at first?
Their FIRST "objective" was to find buffalo & bear "skins" as FUR TRAPPERS...? Hmmm.

 

[sdcfia]

So, it IS possible that the Beale Expedition from Lynchburg, VA. to St. Louis, MO. to Colorado, (1817-1822) did happen with @ 31 men, who discovered "GOLD"... bringing it back to Virginia, TWICE...? SMALL group of men in military "formation" & a "French" guide from St. Louis (from New France aka Canada)... who guided them down Santa Fe Trail to Santa Fe... YET! SOME of their "crew" went NORTH to Colorado finding GOLD? MAYBE, "placer" GOLD at first?
Their FIRST "objective" was to find buffalo & bear "skins" as FUR TRAPPERS...? Hmmm.

So, are you saying that it's possible that the Beale party recovered the French cache in Colorado?

 

[Rebel - KGC]

MAYBE... dunno.

 

[mdog]

So, it IS possible that the Beale Expedition from Lynchburg, VA. to St. Louis, MO. to Colorado, (1817-1822) did happen with @ 31 men, who discovered "GOLD"... bringing it back to Virginia, TWICE...? SMALL group of men in military "formation" & a "French" guide from St. Louis (from New France aka Canada)... who guided them down Santa Fe Trail to Santa Fe... YET! SOME of their "crew" went NORTH to Colorado finding GOLD? MAYBE, "placer" GOLD at first?
Their FIRST "objective" was to find buffalo & bear "skins" as FUR TRAPPERS...? Hmmm.

Here is an event from about the same time period.

bankexpl

https://translate.google.com/transl...rs%C3%A8ne_Lacarri%C3%A8re-Latour&prev=search

I don't follow the Beale legend, but Latour might be a guy to look at.