Treasure Mountain, CO - Lost Frenchmens Gold

[UncleMatt]

I've done a lot of research about the Treasure Mountain legend, but I've never been there. If you disregard all the treasure legends about the place, is there anything about the mountain that would grab your attention, highest peak along a trade route, sacred mountain, unusual shape, anything like that?

There is only one treasure legend associated with that mountain as far as I know, and it is not the highest peak, nor does it have an unusual shape or stand out from other peaks along the Continental Divide in that area.

 

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[UncleMatt]

I think the treasure legend about Treasure Mountain is just a story that was printed in a newspaper to sell newspapers.

 

[mdog]

I think the treasure legend about Treasure Mountain is just a story that was printed in a newspaper to sell newspapers.

I agree that Ward, likely, romanticized the story to sell newspapers, but I'm interested in the source. The legend has been around,for so long, and there are so many conflicting versions, it might not be possible to track everything down. I thought the Maynard Adams books, with their footnotes, would give an historic account, but he followed the Ward articles too close for my satisfaction. From what we've learned, in the thread, so far, the events described in the legend, took place, at the earliest, during 1756. The most recent events took place during 1993 and involved a family who had been searching for the treasure for generations. The 1993 event was described in Randy's second post. Those people are probably still around. Anybody have any idea who they are?

 

[UncleMatt]

Maynard Adams also wrote a fictionalized account of the events surrounding the lost mine of the window (In his book La Ventana). But he failed to back it up with anything other than vague references to research done by Karl Von Mueller and archival material. As far as I can tell Temple Cornelius was the person who first made La Vantana public in a serious way in Sheepherder Gold and Golden Treasures of the San Juans. And since then many people have simply piggy-backed on his books. I cannot find any material prior to the early 60's when Temple published his books about La Ventana. If you know of something I might have missed, please step forward.

 

[tamrock]

I've stayed in Pagosa more times then I count with my work of 20 plus years of covering this part of the country. I've stopped a few times to take the little hike up to treasure fall. It's a beautiful hike just on West side of Wolf Creek. The Legend of the Treasure Mountain story enters my mind every time I head over poncha pass through the San Luis valley and make my way to Wolf Creek to the SW Colorado region. I have a hunch that some of the stash was hidden along the upper Arkansas River based on something I came across hunting arrow heads in the early 1980s That's something that didn't hit me until years later, as I first thought I came across two grave site's, but later I thought they could be markers for something buried there?. I also get the same hunch about the area of La Garita, Colorado as a possibility of a place to hide something? If anything it's always fun to entertain my mind when driving through this area of Colorado. I'm planning a trip to Farmington and Durango area next week weather permitting and once again my thoughts will be on this legend of lost gold.

 

[mdog]

There is only one treasure legend associated with that mountain as far as I know, and it is not the highest peak, nor does it have an unusual shape or stand out from other peaks along the Continental Divide in that area.

The alleged treasure is interesting but any French expedition to that area is what I'm interested in. If you ever run across anybody who knows about that expedition, and has some evidence that describes it, please let me know.

 

[UncleMatt]

I have mentioned this in other threads in the past, but I think its worth repeating here. Many treasure legends were started as ways to increase tourism. Let me give you an example. I came across a story about a cave with gold bars (sound familiar?) that was found by a guy seeking cover from weather and Ute Indians (sound familiar?) on Sleeping Ute Mountain near Cortez, CO. I have family that lives in Cortez, and after more research I found that the guy who wrote the story lived in Arizona, and had written hundreds of such stories over decades at the request of various chambers of commerce and tourism boards in small towns all over the western United States. When we talk about "the source" of such stories, it is very easy to assume there is a basis in reality, or at least a kernel of truth at the root of them. But often that is simply not the case at all.

 

[PatrickD]

I talked with my 89 year old friend today who was a really good friend of KvMs. I know Dean (Karl) stayed at my friends house numerous times when he came through town. Anyway, I brought up Treasure Mountain. He immediately said that Karl hunted it a lot. He said that they found Spanish carvings on it and talked about two different groups of French who occupied it.

Also mentioned there was a nazi treasure reference about Treasure Mountain as well. I seem to recall the nazi treasure lead and something about a plane flying in with gold on it and somebody driving a truck on the mountain. It might be the same treasure lead and location, maybe not. When I get done with my current research project, I will dive into the books and see if I can find the Nazi treasure lead and see if it was supposedly on Treasure Mountain.

I hope this helps and doesn't confuse things further.

P.

 

[PatrickD]

I have mentioned this in other threads in the past, but I think its worth repeating here. Many treasure legends were started as ways to increase tourism. Let me give you an example. I came across a story about a cave with gold bars (sound familiar?) that was found by a guy seeking cover from weather and Ute Indians (sound familiar?) on Sleeping Ute Mountain near Cortez, CO. I have family that lives in Cortez, and after more research I found that the guy who wrote the story lived in Arizona, and had written hundreds of such stories over decades at the request of various chambers of commerce and tourism boards in small towns all over the western United States. When we talk about "the source" of such stories, it is very easy to assume there is a basis in reality, or at least a kernel of truth at the root of them. But often that is simply not the case at all.

Hi UncleMatt,

If you don't mind me interjecting a thought. I have heard the similar tales of (Insert player here) outlaw, cowboy, Prospector, et al., taking cover in a storm and finding a ledge of gold. YAda yada when they go back, cannot find it again.

This one I totally believe can happen. I have found several places in gulches and gulleys that disappear. I have pictures of one rock that has letters carved in it. After the spring thaw this year, the only visible part left of this rock was the very top. I never would have seen the part with the carvings.

Patrick

 

[Rebel - KGC]

I talked with my 89 year old friend today who was a really good friend of KvMs. I know Dean (Karl) stayed at my friends house numerous times when he came through town. Anyway, I brought up Treasure Mountain. He immediately said that Karl hunted it a lot. He said that they found Spanish carvings on it and talked about two different groups of French who occupied it.

Also mentioned there was a nazi treasure reference about Treasure Mountain as well. I seem to recall the nazi treasure lead and something about a plane flying in with gold on it and somebody driving a truck on the mountain. It might be the same treasure lead and location, maybe not. When I get done with my current research project, I will dive into the books and see if I can find the Nazi treasure lead and see if it was supposedly on Treasure Mountain.

I hope this helps and doesn't confuse things further.

P.

Also part of the Lue Treasure "legends" (Lue Map)...

 

[UncleMatt]

See, when people start talking about Nazis hiding treasure in America, I just tend to ignore. People often seem intent on reaching way out beyond the realm of possibility to support their dreams of finding treasure.

 

[UncleMatt]

Its true that caves and other things of interest can be found that escape observation at first glance. But that doesn't mean the hundreds of treasure stories that all share the exact same elements can be supported as existing in reality.

 

[PatrickD]

I have to agree with you. there are a few treasure categories that get the reaction of rolling eyes. I don't put any stock in nazi treasure. The fact that hitler actually owned property in southern Colorado isn't evidence of hidden riches.

One of the things I have started doing, including with Treasure Mountain, is assigning a location on my topo software for every treasure lead in the area. This actually shows the conglomeration of similar leads in a general area. Its almost like tracing the DNA of a treasure lead filtering through all the similar story variations. I have several examples of similar treasure leads that evolved through history into multiple treasures or larger and larger quantities of stashed valuables. I guess the stories got better every time they were told.

Just like with Treasure Mountain, just compiling all of the information and weeding through to get a best guess of history during the research stage is critical. I have described this before like putting together a large jigsaw puzzle face down when you don't know how many pieces there are, you have to find each one, and you don't really know what the final picture is going to look like based on the clues.

The first thing I do is collect the information then try to verify the likelihood of characters or events taking place with some actual reference in history. Without any historic trace to the likelihood of events or records of names, the leads get less of a prioritization. I don't totally dismiss unverifiable information, just don't put my activities there first.

Fortunately, Treasure Mountain has the historical verification for both Spanish and French. There are also references to the involvement of Native Americans. I will just bring up the word 'aztec' to keep that on the radar since it popped up in research. Its also close enough I can do field research on day trips.

Matt, thanks for your input. I like your approach.

Patrick

 

[Rebel - KGC]

LUCKY for you... 2 "sources" of interest; Ancient Lost Treasures ? View topic - The Lue Map and the Nazi Connection

 

[Rebel - KGC]

"Google" A History of the FAMOUS Lue Treasure Map. Randy has some VERY interesting things on T-Net... AND! Dr. Roy Roush (Ph.D.) has some INTERESTING info in one of his book...

 

[sdcfia]

See, when people start talking about Nazis hiding treasure in America, I just tend to ignore. People often seem intent on reaching way out beyond the realm of possibility to support their dreams of finding treasure.

I tend to agree with you. However, keep in mind the political and economic relationships Germany had with the USA during the 1930s. Many powerful (money) people strongly supported the Nazis rise in Europe during this period (Prescott Bush, G.H.W.'s rich daddy is the one we hear most about), financing Hitler's rising power through Wall Street firms. Had the Nazis had inside information pertaining to FDR's impending Gold Act (as many rich people here in the US did and benefitted from), they would have had a good reason, like anyone else, to sell $20/ounce gold for the new price of $35. Money is money. Most people associate Gold Act lost treasure to the Leon Trabuco Four Corners legend. The Trabuco story by itself is problematical enough - but when people start adding a Nazi/LUE angle into the mix, it seems like a mighty long stretch. Not illogical or impossible, but a hard pill to swallow.

 

[sdcfia]

I have to agree with you. there are a few treasure categories that get the reaction of rolling eyes. I don't put any stock in nazi treasure. The fact that hitler actually owned property in southern Colorado isn't evidence of hidden riches.

One of the things I have started doing, including with Treasure Mountain, is assigning a location on my topo software for every treasure lead in the area. This actually shows the conglomeration of similar leads in a general area. Its almost like tracing the DNA of a treasure lead filtering through all the similar story variations. I have several examples of similar treasure leads that evolved through history into multiple treasures or larger and larger quantities of stashed valuables. I guess the stories got better every time they were told.

Just like with Treasure Mountain, just compiling all of the information and weeding through to get a best guess of history during the research stage is critical. I have described this before like putting together a large jigsaw puzzle face down when you don't know how many pieces there are, you have to find each one, and you don't really know what the final picture is going to look like based on the clues.

The first thing I do is collect the information then try to verify the likelihood of characters or events taking place with some actual reference in history. Without any historic trace to the likelihood of events or records of names, the leads get less of a prioritization. I don't totally dismiss unverifiable information, just don't put my activities there first.

Fortunately, Treasure Mountain has the historical verification for both Spanish and French. There are also references to the involvement of Native Americans. I will just bring up the word 'aztec' to keep that on the radar since it popped up in research. Its also close enough I can do field research on day trips.

Matt, thanks for your input. I like your approach.

Patrick

You might try mapping your research. Google Earth has its limitations, but is an easy tool to use. Great Circles (direct routes) seem to be the best approach. I don't know how your Colorado material will look, but on a larger scale (Colorado included), you'd be surprised at the geometry and connecting threads that seem to obviously link the various sites. It would also be interesting to establish a database of proper and place names associated with the stories, and the list of the most common ones that keep popping up.

 

[UncleMatt]

Anyone with an interest in doing so can weave a tapestry of suggestive elements when it comes to treasure tales. I guess skepticism runs strong in my veins. When extraordinary claims are made they require extraordinary evidence to back them up. I operate by Hitchen's Razor: "What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence". Of course it is entertaining to read treasure tales and wonder if they are really out there, and even go in search of them. Which is why we are all here.

 

[Randy Bradford]

Anyone with an interest in doing so can weave a tapestry of suggestive elements when it comes to treasure tales. I guess skepticism runs strong in my veins. When extraordinary claims are made they require extraordinary evidence to back them up. I operate by Hitchen's Razor: "What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence". Of course it is entertaining to read treasure tales and wonder if they are really out there, and even go in search of them. Which is why we are all here.

Uncle Matt, you might be interested in this, a bit pricey to buy buy I'm guessing you can get it through Interlibrary Loan easy enough. It's only about Arizona, but the information contained therin is really about comparing and contrasting repeating elements of treasure stories.

https://www.amazon.com/Motif-Index-Mines-Treasures-communication/dp/0816506469

 

[sdcfia]

Anyone with an interest in doing so can weave a tapestry of suggestive elements when it comes to treasure tales. I guess skepticism runs strong in my veins. When extraordinary claims are made they require extraordinary evidence to back them up. I operate by Hitchen's Razor: "What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence". Of course it is entertaining to read treasure tales and wonder if they are really out there, and even go in search of them. Which is why we are all here.

Exactly. I'll take your point a little further: I haven't seen one treasure legend on TNet that I personally would invest the time, energy and money into for a serious effort to physically recover. I'm not talking about a weekend lark, but a dedicated and potentially extended search effort. Not that some of the topics discussed here aren't without merit, but my general rule of thumb is that if you can read about a "lost mine or hidden treasure" anywhere in the public domain, you have approaching a zero chance of finding it. Your earlier thread on the Lost Carson in CO is a good example. Based on my experience in the San Juans, I believe the Carson outcropping likely exists. However, the sort of information available that would give one confidence that he has a chance of finding the prize is missing, IMO.

What's missing? What is the proper stimulus? Proprietary information, from an acceptable source, that has previously been totally unknown to the public. In other words, convincing evidence from someone close to an undocumented experience that, if authentic and usable, stands a fair chance of leading to the recovery of something of significant value.