Treasure Marker, Sign, Symbols, and Monument Rant

[Justintime]

Hello Nappy, love that spot, seen it before, is the bottom of the holes sand,dirt, or rock. If it has some fill,,remove it down to solid rock. How far back does the holes go,back? The( L),I have had a L, in the field, left from back line, you have two, the top L, is angled, so the backline is headed towards the hole, hard to explain. Focus there, never know till you dig. Goodluck, Thanks

 

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[Nappy701]

Any clues need help plz I can give more info. It's a mirrored pic of a wood cabinet looks like some type of code to me

 

[Trooper733]

OK, Ive been reading threads in this topic for quite a while trying to learn. I have to admit it is sometimes hard to see what others are seeing in the rocks. I think it seems some people on here just go out and take pictures of rocks they think look like something and throw something at the wall to see if it will stick. Some of these allude to things or symbols which were unknown until the 19th or early 20th century and cant possibly be what they say they are representing, some which have no documented history in the U.S. and are trying to attribute this to fantasy when their line of reasoning is to point to Spanish treasure or travel markings or Native American pictographs (which they saw in the movies, so it must be true then). Several I have seen posted are obviously modern manmade carvings. (When they are modern English letters of an Anglicized name its obvious to anyone but a doobie) It is hard to read through dozens of pages trying to learn when there are a few who fill up a thread with this type of stuff, and agree with everything posted and suggested, without offering any knowledge. Anyway I would like Gollum or Rangler or Dsty or some of the others who back up their posts with reasoning to answer a couple of questions.
1. Do you ever try to attribute age to carvings to try to determine if they are from the time period you are searching in, to get past modern graffiti or misleading additions?
2. Do you look closely at carvings to determine if they are man made by tools (i.e. tool marks) or do you just view them from a distance to see the intended marker (animal, shape, etc)
3. I have seen in my area hand drilled or dug holes in rock in triangles or squares along a river bottom, and have read some posts on there being treasure indicated, but would like to hear ideas on what these were for. Mapping? Survey markers to something nearby? etc.
Thank you

 

[gollum]

Hey Trooper,

Without going into a crapton of boring details:

1. Yes, and most of what I have found is related to known trails of the time period I hunt. Take the fish monument on the previous page. It was originally mentioned in Chuck Kenworthy's Book "Spanish Monuments and Trailmarkers to Treasure in the United States". When Chuck passed away, I got a large box of his research stuff relating to Anza-Borrego Desert (and New Mexico). I have seen people that claim Kenworthy penciled in his pictures to make them more believable, or outright hoaxed them. Since I spent so much time out in ABDesert, I decided to hunt down some of Kenworthy's Monuments and see if they were different from the pics in his books. The monuments that I found in the desert are EXACTLY the same as the pictures in his books.

2. The greatest majority of the monuments I have found don't need too much of an imagination to see, for instance:



This is a Bird Monument. The bird means that you should go in the direction the bird is looking, but watch both sides of the trail, because a change of direction is coming shortly. In this case it was about a quarter mile.

3. Not seeing them makes it virtually impossible to tell why they were used in your area. With most monuments, the key thing to remember is the word "CONTEXT". Just like people can take things you say out of context, the same can be said for monuments. Just seeing a single monument/symbol/marker won't tell you a ton (except in some rare instances). If there is one monument, that means there are monuments before and after it.

Unfortunately, there are many people that see Spanish Monuments in bushes and everywhere else. While there are (my guess) tens of thousands of monuments in the Southwest US and Northern Mexico, 90% of them mainly deal with trails, campsites, and water sources. Here is a link to a thread I started about this subject a while back:

Monument Trail

Best of Luck - Mike

 

[Trooper733]

Thanks a lot Mike, this is exactly the intelligent response I was looking for to help me along. I had also started looking for the Kenworthy series of books but had heard and read the same thing, that his material was "flawed". That helps me with that some also. Thanks again
Mark

 

[dsty]

Hello 733, the method of a drill hole is pretty interesting in that the tools used to drill them is on line Look for Viking Mooring Holes and the tools they used, The method I used to determine why - what - where, was I had several around the North side of Holdenville Lake . , then it was just a matter of time ( YEARS ) to try to get some understanding, the method used was boots on the ground with a 200 ft fiberglass measuring tape and a compass, there was several and just getting a bulldog grip and started on I knew how far it was between them, I just started measuring the hole from every direction, up down and sideways, They seem to be 4 inches deep ( 10 cm / wide 10 cm ) = 2 X the circumference = 69 paces = 189.5 feet. I'm not going to write this any more, burns up too many brain cells.

 

[azaz]

ancients

for your viewing enjoyment

 

[Shortfinger]

Gollum, I don’t know whether to thank you or curse you. I suppose a little of both is in order. I have been rattling around the desert here in SoCal for many years, both in 4WD vehicles and on foot, starting way back in 1977. Most of my time has been spent between the Salton Sea and the Colorado River, south of I-10 and north of the 78 (yes, in the Chocolates as well, they were pretty open between 1977 and 1984/85), but quite a bit in Anza-Borrego as well, since it was closer to my home.. However, I never really looked for treasure or symbols in the past. Now, since I have seen your pictures, I fully intend to try to locate some of these markers and symbols at least. Treasure would be nice, too, but the markers will do just as well, I think. Of course, any hints as to where to start would be appreciated, but I will understand if you decline to give me any.

 

[Barton]

Tracking the Spanish Trails

Hello Trooper,

I really feel that all of Charles Kenworthy's material / books are first rate--and will --when read, understood--and applied
are worth more that 20 years of experience with boots on the ground. So instead of walking right past 90 % of the Spanish
Markers and failing to see them--it gives you a understand--that allows you to easily follow the old Spanish Trails.

Certainly I would be Dead--had I failed to read his book on the Spanish Death Traps. In my opinion to enter a Spanish Cache site
to recover treasure is like entering one of the most dangerous places in the world. When you have located that treasure door--
expecting all your work and dreams to come true--stop! Step back and look at that heart with the broken lobe, or that huge snake
showing you the way into the door---or just walk uphill--150 yards--and look at the trigger--holding that 12 X 4 foot long flat surface
slider--that is positioned above your door and the 5--10 tons of loose boulders piled up behind . When the stone door is breached--a
sand channel--goes from the door--up to the trigger--which releases the trigger stone ( this rock lined sand channel--is under the
ground so you will not see it )

So with a big smile on your face--as you open the door to your dreams--you just released hell--and it will be coming down upon you
about 30 miles per hour--of course you get to start the race -- from the bottom of the 6 foot deep hole you just dug.

I have enclosed a picture --of the trigger on the surface slider.

The second picture is of a stone heart---hearts mean treasure right--well this one is easy to find--it is at a Spanish cache site--
and is a death trap--just like the other picture taken at a cache site.

Should you still be interested in --going prospecting--you can contact me if you wish--I am not too far away--and i am always looking
for a prospecting partner as my wife does not like me going into the mountains alone.

Barton

 

[Barton]

Spanish---Fast moving Surface Slider, 15' Spanish Heart (left or bottom rock)

If at first you do not succeed-- persevere--and keep trying--correcting your mistakes each time.

( I am not good at computers so my photos failed to appear. )

 

[Backwoodsbob]

any clues or help would rock.

Now that's what I'm talking about. I love it. I bet you show that to some and they think your crazy. They just don't have a clue. That's the Jesuits for ya!!!![emoji1]

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[widomanmx]

Nappy701, i dont know about this but sure some letters or signs there:
View attachment 1193106

 

[Backwoodsbob]

The spirits of the time

 

[dsty]

Hello Trooper 733, Sorry about being so long in answering your question about how to tell about the age / type / WHO made them and those are really hard questions and the method that I use to determine all those questions ( this just MY theory ) A 4 inch wide drill hole and that's 4 inches deep = 10 cm X 10 cm = 2 X the circumurefence = 69 paces ( pace = 33 inches ) = 189.5 feet, so far I have estimated that there should be aprox. 400 different drill holes and most have a difference value as to the meaning. My boots on the ground was to who was determined by using the degrees and distance between the marks which most all 33 inch pace / 11.5 inch = Spanish, KGC = 36 inch or that's how I work them and Magnetic north / south / east / west , are suveyor directions Actually I believe that they used at least 8 compass degrees, 4 for the layout of New Spain, and the settlers square league for the lay out for the settlers bounty. Direction and distance is what I use to determine who / what / why / where. I have slowed down some and have more time to answer questions.

 

[Rawhide]

Hi Trooper, I can recognize a lot of folks here just by the pictures they post. After my first mega site which I was lead into by a sun sign that could be seen from about 3 miles away. I would say why would a caravn of folks even bother to carve signs and rocks in the desert. Most would tell you water and, food and shelter from the indians. There was some mining also done. I believe there is different types of trails depending on who used them and what time period. I always try to date a area, and then see what proof I can find. Most trail signs have a confirmation sign for lack of a better word. You can find trail signs in pairs. Now a good book I can recommend in pm only will help you if your serious about becoming a treasure hunter. You have some great advice from good hunters here, dont be afraid to ask questions. Now you will find a lot of dry holes. I also believe things were hidden in plan sight, but in a way rain or land slide could not accidentally unearth them. I have seen wondrous things on the trails, I hope you do too. Good luck trooper.

 

[Backwoodsbob]

Any clues need help plz I can give more info. It's a mirrored pic of a wood cabinet looks like some type of code to meView attachment 1130675View attachment 1130677

Yes it is code. I think it's to hard for some to admit it.They are use to big monuments that are easy to see. I believe it is the Jesuits code . The two little heads in the lower center and the way it starts at the top. That tell me to go the straight and narrow. My opinion of coarse. Thats why I'm on here to learn as well. The two head look a lot like these stones of mine

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[Nappy701]

Hhh

 

[tinhorn]

Great rock! Curious as to where you found it on the trail?

 

[Nappy701]

Hhh

 

[Backwoodsbob]

There is a message on that stone. It's a 7 one way and boot along with a few other things. Time to do some diving.

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