The Waltz Map

[SPARTANOC]

🤔OR... maybe its not waltz map and is actually a peralta map and where it says ORO is of the peralta mine on red mountain... Just saying... 🤯

The map doesn't "work" in Red Mountain.

 

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[cuzimloony]

🤔OR... maybe its not waltz map and is actually a peralta map and where it says ORO is of the peralta mine on red mountain... Just saying... 🤯

Wasn't one of the endearing things about Julia, to Waltz, is that she spoke German to him, not Spanish.
Again, Im not saying the map doesnt go where people think. Im just still questioning the provevance (is that even the right word...?)
Anyhow.....

 

[Doc4261]

Wasn't one of the endearing things about Julia, to Waltz, is that she spoke German to him, not Spanish.
Again, Im not saying the map doesnt go where people think. Im just still questioning the provevance (is that even the right word...?)
Anyhow.....

ca

The map doesn't "work" in Red Mountain.

Can lead a horse to water, Cant make them drink.. 🤷‍♂️

 

[Doc4261]

Wasn't one of the endearing things about Julia, to Waltz, is that she spoke German to him, not Spanish.
Again, Im not saying the map doesnt go where people think. Im just still questioning the provevance (is that even the right word...?)
Anyhow.....

LIke I said on page 1, this map will not lead u to the LDM. Im not sure how that map showed on the scene. Someone might have the answer on the background of said map.

 

[SPARTANOC]

LIke I said on page 1, this map will not lead u to the LDM. Im not sure how that map showed on the scene. Someone might have the answer on the background of said map.

We already know that the map leads to "something". Is it the LDM - can't be 100% sure as of yet.

Things are in the process....

 

[Doc4261]

We already know that the map leads to "something". Is it the LDM - can't be 100% sure as of yet.

Things are in the process....

ORO location looks like this.

 

[SPARTANOC]

ORO location looks like this.

And I take it then - that's Red Mountain?

 

[SPARTANOC]

Wasn't one of the endearing things about Julia, to Waltz, is that she spoke German to him, not Spanish.
Again, Im not saying the map doesnt go where people think. Im just still questioning the provevance (is that even the right word...?)
Anyhow.....

Cuz

It is possible that the map IS a Peralta Map, this based on the whole ORO deal. That is a good possible 'origin of source' and it would make sense - based on that particular word.

As far as I understand things in the past - Miners didn't make a point to use the word ORO, but it could have been used regardless, by modern day miners (from the 1800's to now). They might have used it as a less inviting word, to avoid anyone realizing the map leads to Gold. I would think any Miner who knew anything, would understand what the word ORO actually means - but that doesn't mean it was a common practice.

IMHO - I would lean towards Waltz created it OR someone he spoke to as he was dying, as who would know where the cache(s) were if it wasn't Jacob? Even the Peralta's didn't know, that there were 3 caches, 2 taken by Waltz. All the Peralta would have known, is there's a Mine up in there.

-SpartanOC

 

[cuzimloony]

Cuz

It is possible that the map IS a Peralta Map, this based on the whole ORO deal. That is a good possible 'origin of source' and it would make sense - based on that particular word.

As far as I understand things in the past - Miners didn't make a point to use the word ORO, but it could have been used regardless, by modern day miners (from the 1800's to now). They might have used it as a less inviting word, to avoid anyone realizing the map leads to Gold. I would think any Miner who knew anything, would understand what the word ORO actually means - but that doesn't mean it was a common practice.

IMHO - I would lean towards Waltz created it OR someone he spoke to as he was dying, as who would know where the cache(s) were if it wasn't Jacob? Even the Peralta's didn't know, that there were 3 caches, 2 taken by Waltz. All the Peralta would have known, is there's a Mine up in there.

-SpartanOC

imo, If Jacob created this map, especially for Julia, then there would be more German and less English and Spanish. As it is, there's no German and only English and Spanish.
FYI, there are lots of stories about the Peraltas out there, but this is the only one with US government court findings ending in a conviction ......... for making them up. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Reavis. Oh look! He's a southern confederate, making up the Peraltas, and he's directly related to Elijah Reavis of Dutchman fame. The same Reavis they tried to create a legend around with his naked body scaring off hardened blood thirsty apache warriors. Nothing to see here............
Even Tom Kollenborn and many other locals cast doubts on the Peraltas, who's first mention in print came during the civil war....coincidence, surely.
However, this IS a map and idahodutch seems to have used it to find something. I'm looking forward to seeing what!

 

[SPARTANOC]

imo, If Jacob created this map, especially for Julia, then there would be more German and less English and Spanish.
FYI, there are lots of stories about the Peraltas out there, but this is the only one with US government court findings ending in a conviction for making them up. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Reavis. Oh look! He's a southern confederate, making up the Peraltas, and he's directly related to Elijah Reavis of Dutchman fame. The same Reavis they tried to create a legend around with his naked body scaring off hardened blood thirsty apache warriors. Nothing to see here............

Well, in the end, I can say not everything about the 'Peralta family' existence, was found to be bogus.

Luis María Peralta 1759- 1851

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luis_María_Peralta

Time will tell if the map is accurate OR a hoax......but from what I'm hearing, it works out in the Supes Wilderness pretty well. All is needed, is a sample.

 

[cuzimloony]

Well, in the end, I can say not everything about the 'Peralta family' existence, was found to be bogus.

Luis María Peralta 1759- 1851

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luis_María_Peralta

Time will tell if the map is accurate OR a hoax......but from what I'm hearing, it works out in the Supes Wilderness pretty well. All is needed, is a sample.

I can go find a Jones and a Sanchez too if I want online.
The US gov put Reavis in jail for making them up in the PERALTA LAND GRANT.
Did Peraltas exist? Sure! Did a family from Mexico have mines in the sups named Peralta??
According to legend.....
But again, if dutch has been able to locate this maps end point, whoever or wherever this map comes from, is awesome and Im hopeful he's done it!
My opinion about the writing is irrelevent really. You know what they say about those.... I was just offering for sake of discussion.
I just want to see the pot o gold at the end

 

[393stroker]

I don’t know about the doodle, but I never found the spot either.

The Waltz map is different. It shows where every thing is in Waltz ravine.

someone made the map, and as far as I know, he was the only person with that knowledge, in order to make it.

Who else would know where everything was located?

Also, everything that the map shows, has been getting located in real life, because of the map. We’re nearly done. 😉

Idahodutch

I seriously doubt that Waltz had anything to do with the making of any map to his mine. I’m sure someone made maps and sold them to unsuspecting people for a quick buck, but Waltz wasn’t making maps for someone else to go to his mine without him.

I don’t know about the doodle, but I never found the spot either.

The Waltz map is different. It shows where every thing is in Waltz ravine.

someone made the map, and as far as I know, he was the only person with that knowledge, in order to make it.

Who else would know where everything was located?

Also, everything that the map shows, has been getting located in real life, because of the map. We’re nearly done. 😉

Idahodutch

 

[Idahodutch]

🤔OR... maybe its not waltz map and is actually a peralta map and where it says ORO is of the peralta mine on red mountain... Just saying... 🤯

Doc,
You might be on to something, with part of your statement about using the word “oro” because the 2 small caches being from the Peralta mine , only most likely it was a closer Peralta mine, like the one just above. (What was already dug out by the Mexicans that were working the Peralta mine when Waltz and his partner first showed up.)

That would certainly make sense.
In a round about way, you just helped make my case. Thank you 👍

Idahodutch

 

[Idahodutch]

I seriously doubt that Waltz had anything to do with the making of any map to his mine. I’m sure someone made maps and sold them to unsuspecting people for a quick buck, but Waltz wasn’t making maps for someone else to go to his mine without him.

He was supposed to waiting in the wagon …… remember 🤓👍

- Idahodutch

 

[393stroker]

He was supposed to waiting in the wagon …… remember 🤓👍

- Idahodutch

He was in a wagon when he was dying taking them to his mine?

 

[Idahodutch]

Stroker,
Waltz didn’t make the wagon ride, he died before he could make the trip.

Idahodutch.

 

[393stroker]

Stroker,
Waltz didn’t make the wagon ride, he died before he could make the trip.

Idahodutch.

OK, when he said he would go in the wagon and point out where to go, there's a possibility that he was going to show them the top of Coffee Flat from the board house which was in the valley east of Peralta Rd. That`s where I think it`s at.

 

[Idahodutch]

OK, when he said he would go in the wagon and point out where to go, there's a possibility that he was going to show them the top of Coffee Flat from the board house which was in the valley east of Peralta Rd. That`s where I think it`s at.

Good morning Stroker,
No matter where Waltz might have pointed, it is hard to think that there would Not be preparation for the trip, not just gear, water, but for information. Details about Waltz’ mine site. He said HAVE to find the hidden camp first.
Then says why ….. that his mine is not more than 200’ directly across the canyon. So the hidden camp is also used as a marker to measure from.
Details are lacking to locate the mine.

In Holmes manuscript, the directions instruct Holmes to get on the trail to San Carlos, after it turns to the south, to go left, when see the rock man. … then to a saddle.. finally up to a high point of the ridge ( above the hidden camp) to view 4- peaks as one peak. Those directions are details for finding stuff at the ravine.

I have not been to coffee flat, but if LDM is up there, it seems that there would be clues matching up. Can you share any of those?

Is there a ravine up there?
A saddle tying into a ridge?
If not those clues, there must be some clues matching up, I would think.

You have to admit, that if Waltz had previously made a map of the ravine, it would be a game changer ……. Pointing the way starts to become more believable … just saying 🙂

Idahodutch

 

[cuzimloony]

Dad joke coming.
Has anyone thought about this angle...?
It's called The Lost Dutchman Mine, and we keep assuming that it's the mine that is lost. Maybe it was the Dutchman who was lost all along..........
Sorry.....
I laughed at least.

 

[SPARTANOC]

Dad joke coming.
Has anyone thought about this angle...?
It's called The Lost Dutchman Mine, and we keep assuming that it's the mine that is lost. Maybe it was the Dutchman who was lost all along..........
Sorry.....
I laughed at least.

Well, apparently he was "losing his mind" in those final days of life.....just saying. 🤣