The Treasure of Captain William Kidd.

[Bocaj]

Hi Bocaj,
London (and Paris) have had their own meridians since the 12th century. Just because Greenwich wasn't formally proclaimed "Prime Meridian" until 1721 does not mean that a meridian in Britain did not exist.

A merdian exist always at any time in any place on the surface of earth! Only when it is used as reference/zero/prime meridan (all saying the same thing) then navigators will use them in their logbooks or charts. In Britain before the Greenwich meridian others were in use like the biggest ports in the channel or more important the 'Lizard point' because it was the last piece of land before sailing out into the North Atlantic. Whatever he used it was certainly not Greenwich which had no importance for navigation until the government declared it the prime meridian.

 

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[Bocaj]

It seems most here have very little idea about the history of navigation, especially about the longitude problem and the history of its solutions.

To determine longitude at sea dead reckoning was mostly used even up to the times of GPS. Only in long voyages when the sum of uncertainty of error in dead reckoning became to large longitude needed to be determined by other means.

The stars, moon and the sun can be used but this needed a clock to determine the time difference from the used prime meridian. Now you think that is no problem but in the mid 18th century a marine chronometer was probably the most expensive thing on earth and in the 17th century there simply was none available anywhere! If you speak about longitude at sea at this time you need to know the chart of the last point a ship passed before sailing into the open sea.

The best charts outside of Europe in the 17th century came from Dutch map makers. For many places they were the only ones available (if one could afford them that is).

Even in the 18 centuries national prime meridians were used first on local maps only so it would have been rare to see the use of Greenwich outside the coast of Britain or English colonies after 1721.

 

[ISmellGold]

After examining a lot of "Ancient and early documenred accounts of longitude and lattitude" in documents, that stuff is wrong like 85% of the time. Either it was changed to hide knowledge or just recorded wrong.

 

[Bocaj]

After examining a lot of "Ancient and early documenred accounts of longitude and lattitude" in documents, that stuff is wrong like 85% of the time. Either it was changed to hide knowledge or just recorded wrong.

It wasn't easy on land to fix the Longitude neither! Most places had not been measured, only the most important towns and ports. The rest was determined by either dead reckoning, trigonometry or simply wild guess. Latitude is a lot easier especially in the northern hemisphere (polaris star) but instruments and knowledge how to use a quadrant and later (18th century) sextant were rare.
It is as such not so much if the coordinates are wrong but how much they differ from today's positions.

 

[ISmellGold]

Just saying you really cant rely on alot of "Reported Coordintes" or even "Official Stories" of "Supposed Historical Voyages".

Just look at the Titanic, must be at least 5-6 Coordinates posted for where it sank, with Hundreds of Miles off of eachother.
🤔

 

[Randawg72]

The navigational instrument Captain Kidd would have used to measure longitude was a Backstaff, or Davis Quadrant. These measured the altitude of a celestial body, in particular the Sun or Moon to determine position.
Please note that several meridians were in use in the late 17th century, and that nobody knows which one was preferred by Kidd. Any comments made by myself or other members regarding Kidd's choice of meridian are just speculation and should not be taken as fact.

 

[Bocaj]

The navigational instrument Captain Kidd would have used to measure longitude was a Backstaff, or Davis Quadrant. These measured the altitude of a celestial body, in particular the Sun or Moon to determine position.

Latitude was relatively easy to take but not longitude and certainly not on a ship without a clock!

The position he took was most certainly taken either from a chart or by some other known place and dead reckoning.

He almost certainly didn't measure it by himself because to do so he would have been needed to stay on land to wait for an eclipse and that could take some years. Lunar distances required complicated tables and Jupiter moons a very good telescope plus a lot of knowledge in astronomy. There was no other methods to get a longitude before the marine chronometer!

Please note that several meridians were in use in the late 17th century, and that nobody knows which one was preferred by Kidd. Any comments made by myself or other members regarding Kidd's choice of meridian are just speculation and should not be taken as fact.

I never told I know for sure which meridian he used. To state this again! But we can almost certain know what he did not use (Greenwich). I advice you to read this http://www.thegreenwichmeridian.org/tgm/articles.php?article=9 to finally understand what Greenwich was about and why I can state with certainty it wasn't used by Kidd!

if you find the island from the skeleton map is exact on whatever modern longitude coordinates you read on it you can be quite sure it wasn't drawn by Kidd but centuries later.

 

[Randawg72]

FYI, a Backstaff relied on the shadow created by he sun (or moon). It would not function at all during an eclipse.
Also, why would you assume Captain Kidd didn't bring a clock?
PS: I found my Island without the use of coordinates. Kidd may have even used the Scottish meridian established in 1672. He was a Scotsman after all.. 😉

"It's a fool that looks for logic in the chambers of the human heart"..

 

[ISmellGold]

Well if he was going to Jamaica on a somewhat regular basis he probably had the best. If anything he does look somewhat like a detail orientated navigator. Probably my guess is that is what his main function on anyship would of been. My guess is he was probably more of a Co-Captain. Wouldn't be surprised if he had a Brutal co-captain that handled pretty much everything else.
If he was in charge of Pulling all that Gold off of Port Royal, he definetely would of had at least 1-2 Top Henchman/Goons around him at all times. Maybe that explains the 2 Frenchman that were Hung with him when he was captured.
🤔

That is a businessman right there, Disiplined, not prone to excessive risk taking. He would of had every detail of the Voyage worked out. Attack a ship for gold or pretty much anything? Not Likely. His game was transport. Port Royal, Jamaica is the key.

😁

 

[Bocaj]

FYI, a Backstaff relied on the shadow created by he sun (or moon). It would not function at all during an eclipse.

It didn't need any tool really but simply measure the local time the eclipse happened and compare it with the predictions and the prime meridian.

Also, why would you assume Captain Kidd didn't bring a clock?

Because normal clocks were of no use on board of a ship and as I did already wrote before the first nautical chronometer was constructed in the 18th century!
Just read the article I linked and you maybe understand the idea of the longitude problem.

PS: I found my Island without the use of coordinates.

Why do you insist so much on the Greenwich meridian then? Is is the general thing that it is of little use to search for Kidd's treasure without a profound study of history and navigation of the 17th century?

There are some treasures you can find running around with a metal detector but certainly not this one!

 

[ISmellGold]

Kidd Timeline
August 1694 Bank Of England Established
1694 Kidd Arrives in Americas From England (Coincidence?)
1699 (Kidd captured in Boston?)