The real truth about the man made drought in California

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I really wish we could leave politics out of it. That being said, understanding certain principles could easily reduce costs of desal. The extra water could be pumped towards the west and possibly used to create fertile areas or stored in man made lakes for just in case issues. Back in the old days people solved their problems with actual solutions. why even bother in cali? oregon has a coast line. desal the water there and let it run south. The excess salt would make a great byproduct for some states during the winter months.
 

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Yes someone always trying to push their idealogy and blame others because of their own self failures. As for water problems ,They have proposed different solutions but always complaints about them. Recycling sewage waste water is going to happen more and more especially in the west, along with use restrictions and growth limits also. Astronaut program has perfected waste water reclaimation and many places already do it and many bottled water companies have used this process. All the rivers already are loaded with sewage runoff and water supplies are taken from them. Welcome to the 21 century Desalination has proven to be way too expensive. water pollution has been a huge problem since 1900 and earlier around all populated areas, it is a undeniable fact
 

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MFSB said:
This is all propaganda. It is a drought, if you can't see the lack of historical rain fall, snow pack, water flow, and other indicators for extreme arid conditions then you are blind. I disagree 100% that it is a lack of management and save a fish campaign that is causing this artificially. We are absolutely in an extreme drought down here in California. People are impacted by a lack of rainfall, regardless of the causal factors. Trying to say it isn't happening, or that saving a fish is nonsense is pure propaganda.
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Since last year we have washed over a trillon gallons of water into the ocean to support a cold water fishery that does not exist and to support a biological opinion that states a lack of water and pumping water from the delta has decimated the Delta Smelt. Well they have had four years of ALL the water, and yesterdays survey found ONE smelt when their should be millions. They ignore the facts, USFWS has introduced the striped bass into the delta for sport fishing, and the greates majority of the cities along the delta, including Sacramento and Stockton flush 90 percent of their lightly treated affluent, sewage, into the delta. Guess what, nitrates kill fish, no opinion, fact. This state has historically had droughts since the begining of time, that is why the Central Valley Project was built in the 60's to move water from one part of the state to other parts that needed it. Our above ground storeage system was designed for 20 million Californians, there are now over 40 million. We have a water bond passed by the voters, which the State Water Board is now saying may not build any storeage, but we are spending the first 2 billion dollars on pet enviormental projects, including removing mercury from streams and lakes and dry land that poses little harm, and was being removed by suction miners for free. This is a MAN MADE DROUGHT, full of favors for the greenies, and at the expense of every Caifornian.
 

Five years ago, we had the third largest snow pack in the history of the state, and we flushed it all to the ocean. No storeage when the rain and snow comes guarantees the same disater.


rodoconnor said:
Of course it is not the fault of one man. That's why I mentioned the Assembly and State Senate. The useless, ineffective. leaders in that state. The emptying of the dams is not B.S. or propaganda it is a fact. As I also mentioned , not much has been done to the infrastructure since Gov. Pat Brown.
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it takes over a gallon of water to produce one almond. and lawns and golf courses and fountains, the list goes on, Farmers draining the aquafier that takes years to replenish, and so you blame whatever your idealogy requires you to blame, And as for manmade, maybe the years of living a illusion are over, and realize that has been Historically a desert climate and too many people demanding too much water for their personal use than the area has received over time. simple math
 

As for storage, tell me what is wrong with lake mead? looks like it has a bathtub ring from where the water use to be stored, and is half empty? and the ground level water in the Midwest aquafier?
 

That water runoff into the Delta, then ultimately the Ocean is Hugely important to this Area ! They are not just "Flushing" away all the water....
The Brine / Salt level has been moving higher up the delta, as more water is diverted by farming, drought, etc....If it ultimately reaches too high of a level, we are all kind of F'd....
Just seems like Such a Complicated situation.....:dontknow:
 

There are solutions. Too many cooks in this. Waste water effluent is cleaner than there water sources it's getting dumped into.
During wet years use high pressure pumps to force water into the aquifer. A near perfect reservoir not subject
To evaporation.
Native plants for landscaping. Micro emitters for agriculture.
Place limits on suburban expansion.
Pipes instead of leaky canals.
The list goes on.


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Agriculture uses 70% of water,homes use 20%. Waster Water is cheaper to purify for Agriculture use-that's a fact so that's where you put your resources towards. Yes it can be further processed (at higher cost) for drinking purposes but freeing up the Agriculture water more than provides for Potable water usage by over 3X's. Money like water is a diminishing resource and time is of the essence. So let's skip the "what is technically do-able" and get on with what is the most necessary/least cost and easier to put in place right now.
 

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Oakview2 said:
Since last year we have washed over a trillon gallons of water into the ocean to support a cold water fishery that does not exist and to support a biological opinion that states a lack of water and pumping water from the delta has decimated the Delta Smelt. Well they have had four years of ALL the water, and yesterdays survey found ONE smelt when their should be millions. They ignore the facts, USFWS has introduced the striped bass into the delta for sport fishing, and the greates majority of the cities along the delta, including Sacramento and Stockton flush 90 percent of their lightly treated affluent, sewage, into the delta. Guess what, nitrates kill fish, no opinion, fact. This state has historically had droughts since the begining of time, that is why the Central Valley Project was built in the 60's to move water from one part of the state to other parts that needed it. Our above ground storeage system was designed for 20 million Californians, there are now over 40 million. We have a water bond passed by the voters, which the State Water Board is now saying may not build any storeage, but we are spending the first 2 billion dollars on pet enviormental projects, including removing mercury from streams and lakes and dry land that poses little harm, and was being removed by suction miners for free. This is a MAN MADE DROUGHT, full of favors for the greenies, and at the expense of every Caifornian.
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BOOM!!! Headshot!!
 

kayakpat said:
As for storage, tell me what is wrong with lake mead? looks like it has a bathtub ring from where the water use to be stored, and is half empty? and the ground level water in the Midwest aquafier?
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Let me see if I can find something. I would think that when there are 1500-2000 trees per acre in a forest that can only handle 150-200 per acre, you would have problems with water.

But what do I know? I'm not a tree hugger and support logging.
 

Too many cows, too many almonds, too many grapes. Too much being grown that gets shipped out of the state and country. No regulation over agricultural watering practices. Too much waste because it is cheaper to waste than adapt and utilize newer technologies. There is plenty of storage but not enough rainfall or snow pack. The delta can't be drained because of saltwater intrusion into already stressed freshwater aquifers. Big agri business and it's lobbyists don't care what happens because they can buy all the laws and lawmakers they want in order to keep on growing. Their bottom line is money right now, not making sure that they have someplace to grow food next year. They can move to your state and rape it next. Desal will work for urban areas but I don't see too many farms in urban areas.
For the most part I would be willing to bet that we all enjoy the beautiful outdoors and the so called enviro-Nazi's are just attempting to make sure that there is beautiful outdoor space for future generations to enjoy. This is partly about big agri-business doing what it wants and some concerned people fighting back! If anyone thinks that the Democrans or Republicrats have anything to do with lawmaking in this country you are seriously deluded. It's all about money and everyone is grabbing what they can and stuffing their pockets.
I will admit that I am somewhat drunk right now and I'm sure there is plenty of eye rolling going on in front of computer screens across the country but guess what? This isn't a California problem! Everyone is effed! CA grows food that all of you eat and have in your fridges and cabinets. This is OUR problem as a country. We need to adapt and change. Not continue to do the same old thing like pump water out of the rivers that are drying up and shipping it halfway across the state. We shouldn't be ranching so much cattle, which are very water intensive. Places that have plenty of rainfall should be. We shouldn't be growing so many almonds! We shouldn't be growing so much of everything and shipping it everywhere! Grow your own food! Make your own wine! Next time someone thinks, "Oh when will all those Californians learn?" Ask yourself "When will we learn?" We shouldn't be eating tomatoes in Feb. We shouldn't be eating so many hamburgers. Someday we will all say"Remember Salmon? Yeah that was good and it used to be fun to fish for too!"
The short and skinny of it is this. It isn't the environment or us. We are from the environment and part of it. Nobody wants to remember how beautiful things used to be because there is no natural beauty left. We need to learn to take care of what we have and nurture it. We are stewards of the land and our lives are just flashes in the pan. If something that we are doing is hurting the environment, it is hurting us! And anyone who thinks the two are mutually exclusive is just blowing smoke...
I'm drunk and the drought sucks and the Giants are pissing me off right now!
Let the trolling begin...
 

And speaking of the Delta Smelt, I do find it interesting that shortly after the Florida-strain Largemouth Bass was introduced to the Delta that the Smelt disappeared from the southern portion of it range.

From Wikipedia: Delta smelt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Look under habitat right towards the end.

History of the Florida-strain largemouth bass in California: Florida-Strain Bass Changed the World of Bass Fishing | Bass Fishing Archives

By the way, largemouth bass are voracious PREDATORS.

Go ahead and try and destroy the striper and largemouth fisheries and see what happens.

You could flush the entire Great Lakes down the Sacramento and San Joaquin but it won't make a damn bit of difference. Until the stripers and largemouths are eliminated, trying to save the delta smelt by removing impoundments is about as useful as putting a screen door in a submarine.

The whole water shortage thing killing the Delta Smelt is just another useless fairy tale brought to you by the radical eco groups.
 

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This should be a federal infrastructure budget priority. Since this states economy is one of the biggest, if not the biggest in the country. Sometimes (usually) I think this country has it's priority's completely backwards.

There used to actually be a federal infrastructure budget, but ol Ronnie boy took care of that. Nice one.
 

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Mad Machinist said:
Let me see if I can find something. I would think that when there are 1500-2000 trees per acre in a forest that can only handle 150-200 per acre, you would have problems with water.

But what do I know? I'm not a tree hugger and support logging.
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If the Forrest can only handle 150 - 200 trees per acre how did the other 1800 trees get there?
 

Awesome rant CHUDs!
When the agri-corporations finish destroying the valley, they will receive a bailout. Because they have bought off our politicians.
And when we have to re locate guess what? SOL , after all you are just a taxpayer.
This drought is cyclic, part of California's climate. Been this way since the beginning.
There are simple ways to survive through this and prepare for future droughts. But it's being shortsighted and selfish that got us into this predicament.
Read Cadillac Desert, I know it was written by an enviro-nazi , but there are lessons to be learned.
We need new water use practices. Get use to it because soon we will be drinking re cycled waste water.
Lawns should be a thing of the past.
Let's pray for rain. If the drought continues for a fifth year, things are going to get real exciting.
And the Giants are really pissing me off too.



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Has anyone considered the impact on the US economy if Calif. lost
these massive farms? The impact it would have on America's food
and produce supplies, not to mention the job losses that would
result.

In the Bronx, NY, there is a massive meat/produce market called
Hunts Point Market. The place is located about a block from Hell,
but once in the gates you can feel a little safer.

Back to my point; on any given day there are dozens of trucks there
delivering produce, and 95% of that produce came out of Calif.

They do grow a lot of grapes in certain areas of Calif., and it generates
over $23 billion dollars a year for the economy. No small hit.

Las Vegas has been having water trouble too, and has been buying
large farms and properties all the way up to Austin so they can get
the water and pump it back to Vegas.

Whatever method they choose, they best get their butts moving
and do it quick. The whole SW is in deep doodoo if some solution
isn't implemented, and soon.
 

Ponchosportal said:
If the Forrest can only handle 150 - 200 trees per acre how did the other 1800 trees get there?
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They got there by several reasons.

1. Fire suppression.
Now all the eco freaks want you to believe that the natural fire regime was suppressed due to the logging companies wanting to save the "old growth" forests for logging. This is nothing but a pile of crap. All of the "old growth" forests here in the west have developed a "fire resistance" through having thicker bark. The real reason behind it was an attempt at habitat preservation.

2. Lack of logging.
We all remember the eco freaks chaining themselves to and spiking trees back in the day. All of this has led to many companies being put out of business as they had to fight the battle in court. Now there are not enough of companies to handle the problem of removing the necessary amount of trees.

3. Abuse of the Endangered Species Act.
We all pretty much know how this is used to stop anything that the eco freaks do not want.

There are several more factors involved, but these are the most important ones for now.

More later.
 

Posts deleted for politics, please keep politics confined to our politics forum...
 

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