The Peralta Stones

[Twisted Fork]

I was waiting for that......

The terrain is so rough and remote that you can't get near most of them with a horse; foot travel only and ropes up and down hundreds of feet of shear cliffs, several of them are over run with bears and record size mountain lions, three are on hand me down patented land that belongs to old folks who have no idea of what they have or a widow who is unable to get much further than arm chair prospecting and won't get involved unless she can see for herself, the forestry feds require 3 to 4 million dollars in bond up front before breaking ground beyond a square yard, two are in elk sanctuaries, two are in an eagle sanctuary, and last but not least my favorite, Mormons who refuse to do their own treasure hunting home work climbing up my back side with the usual 21 questions; What are you doing up here? Are you alone? Do you come hear often, Where do you live? Is that your truck we saw coming in? Whats that gear in the back of your truck? When will you be back to camp? Your not poaching are you? Have you ever heard of my uncle Bob? He used to look for gold mines up here. Can we tag along with you?

It's getting to the point now that a guy has to go at night when the predators are hunting too. Otherwise, I know right were the crap is.

 

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[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Evening T Fork: it sounds as if you are getting good elementary base work for looking for lost Jesuit mines in Mexico.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Twisted Fork]

I would love to do just that, but I hear that many of the mines are already known of by the families of small local farmers and that it is a good way to get ones skull ventilated. A lawyer I knew back in the 70's in N.Hollywood worked with a guy off and on who used to go to Sunday market with a friend and his sawed off double barrel and a floor safe on a dolly. Farmers would come into town and sell them nuggets torn from out of the rock for cash. He then sold them piece by piece to the highest bidder. It became too dangerous and he eventually had to give it up.

The place that interests me the most at this point is New Mexico. I've never been much of a miner, but more rather a hunter in study of real trail sign in the field. There truly is a system to it and it is quit accurate everywhere. The maps vary depending on the Don, but the geometry is the same. The Peraltas loved billiards. Another Don might appreciate military field hardware, another the stars and yet another table games, ball games or board games. Either way, the math is the same; just different reference from the same points. I discovered this in realizing different marker sets surrounding the same mine on the same mountain. One Don set his up on the west side, 20 years later, another on the south side and so on. The most common sets if no other is that of the Jesuits who reference the stories of the walk of Christ, through the streets and on to the place of the skull and the cross. To descend into the depths, to rise again and the reappearance to civilization with riches from the high place. It's all about the walk and hunt to me; a place to bruise the serpent in the wilderness.

 

[Twisted Fork]

Roy,

I also wondered why make treasure maps out of stone rather than wood, parchment, or leather. The only explanation (other than hoaxing), was that the stone maps were not taken away. They were left hidden near whichever trail the family took. That way, nobody in Mexico would have any idea where the mines were.

They would have been picked up on the way North, and redeposited on the way home. Stone would hold up much better than any other material. When the last odf anything valuable was removed, the stones would have been discarded on the way back South -or- when the mule carrying the stone maps broke away during the Apache Attack, it either kicked the saddle loose or was removed by the Apache before eating the mule.

Best-Mike

The ideal is to spread a sheet of paper over the stones and to lightly brush over them with a piece of charcoal. Then with key Masonic guidelines, one cuts them into pieces and reassembles the parts into the now focused paper map. They were kept there on purpose to point out a position to the North of their burial as the paper map continues, and on to yet other mines on either side as far North as Ogden, Utah. Reference the PAX Monk pictograph with the the sheep herders cane.

 

[ghostdog]

Some interesting bits I came across, A fine statue made from alms of Nuestra Senorade los Remedios was brought from Mexico to mission Dolores ,well guarded,then moved to mission Remedios where installed.
A ruin near Vah Ki now called Casa Blanca is suppoidly related to the Montezumas. These ruins were called casa grandes by the Indians,and they were scared of them thinking they were cursed. Several of these ruins are near where 2 mountains join together in a tight gap.There is a Indian legand of a large stone jar filled with precious stones buried in this area.

 

[Twisted Fork]

If there is spiritual fear there, it is because of the wandering dead, still obsessed with the goods. This can be a handy help in finding treasure. If your hair stands up during a hunt, giggle some; maybe the spirit will lead you straight to it. This is divination at it's best and is better known as "Time Divination." To be drawn.

 

[cactusjumper]

Mr. Fork,

"If there is spiritual fear there, it is because of the wandering dead, still obsessed with the goods."

I have spent many nights in the Superstitions, if that's where "there" is, and have never felt anything but comfort from the "wandering dead", who enjoy sitting close to the campfire. We are old friends.

It's very hard to follow your posts, when you don't address them to anyone. It's almost as if you are replying to yourself.....most of the time.

When you were doing your divining, did you happen to conjure up what kind of reception you would receive with these kind of posts? Does herb become the one who does the writing......and thinking?

Joe Ribaudo

 

[Twisted Fork]

I seldom use herb unless I am after the gold in this world; that is what a Hebrew Priest would tell you it is for if you can find one that isn't asleep in the grave. I really don't even need a willow anymore as my pull towards a site begins within 20 miles of the location wherein upon arrival, I am now able to just walk straight to that which the Holy Spirit has on it's schedule for that particular day; like a magnet My motor is running in pursuit 24/7, whether it is in the works or not; I am only human you know. Jesus is in the spotlight and you are a spirit audience. Satan is the peanut gallery with gum under his shoes and Jujubes on his gown.

 

[cactusjumper]

Mr. Fork,

'You are a spirit audience and the Messiah is in the spotlight."

Since you are the one doing the "speaking/writing", does that make you the "Messiah"?

Thanks in advance,

Joe Ribaudo

 

[Twisted Fork]

All of the born again are a voice in the wilderness; let he who has ears, hear.

 

[Twisted Fork]

Isn't there more evidence to support the realities of the tablets, then there is to have cause to dismiss them? The Jesuits are real, the Peraltas are real, gold is real, the Dons probably weren't on vacation in Arizona, Waltz was real, The military trail was originally Spanish, were talking about the Peralta land grant and their family became extremely rich on cattle they purchased with gold digs, Indians don't lie, they would rather clam up, Some folks just give up to easy I'd say. The more you do your homework the more likely are you to expand your mind and your search. That's just my impression of it.

 

[Oroblanco]

Cactusjumper wrote

When you were doing your divining, did you happen to conjure up what kind of reception you would receive with these kind of posts? Does herb become the one who does the writing......and thinking?

and
Twisted Fork replied

I seldom use herb unless I am after the gold in this world; that is what a Hebrew Priest would tell you it is for if you can find one that isn't asleep in the grave. I really don't even need a willow anymore as my pull towards a site begins within 20 miles of the location wherein upon arrival, I am now able to just walk straight to that which the Holy Spirit has on it's schedule for that particular day; like a magnet My motor is running in pursuit 24/7, whether it is in the works or not; I am only human you know. Jesus is in the spotlight and you are a spirit audience. Satan is the peanut gallery with gum under his shoes and Jujubes on his gown.

Hmm let me get this straight Twisted Fork, are you saying that you have a spirit guide, a familiar spirit whom aids and-or guides you to help find lost treasures? Thank you in advance,

Twisted Fork also wrote

Isn't there more evidence to support the realities of the tablets, then there is to have cause to dismiss them? The Jesuits are real, the Peraltas are real, gold is real, the Dons probably weren't on vacation in Arizona, Waltz was real, The military trail was originally Spanish, were talking about the Peralta land grant and their family became extremely rich on cattle they purchased with gold digs,

What you have covered there is a very complex set of items; for the stone tablets it is a matter of opinion whether there is more evidence to show they are real than they are frauds, some would say yes they are real, others will say no they are frauds. Several experts who did examine the stones, however briefly, stated their opinions that they were modern forgeries. The Jesuits were real, but today they energetically deny any involvement in illegal mining or hidden treasures in America. The Peraltas were real, but the mines they had were in Mexico and near Black Canyon AZ, not in the Superstitions. The Peralta land grant was one of the most massive frauds ever attempted in history, if you are interested in this look up the Reavis land grant fraud
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Reavis

I am not sure about the old military trail being originally Spanish but this is possible. Waltz was real, the gold found under his bed was real. It is a veritable minefield of fact mixed with fiction amigo, difficult to separate sometimes.
Oroblanco

 

[Twisted Fork]

There is still reason to believe that they mined in Arizona. From what I understand, they were based in Sonora and one must wonder why they are and have been such a prominent part of Arizona history going back long before the tablets were ever known to exist. Personally, the terms "experts" in this day and age is as wide an angle as choosing which toilet paper to by. What credentials do they have to support anything historical that goes anywhere beyond theory. Most believe that the pictographs of the West were done by the natives, when in reality most of them are really treasure maps drawn by the monks. Native Americans would no sooner carve into an ancestors face as they would a mountain face as they believed all things have a soul. Not to get back on Mormons again God forbid, but they have an entire University system that claims to be experts on American history after 150 years of what they call award wining archeology in the field and lab, thus proving beyond any shadow of a doubt that the book of Mormon is more than real in explicit detail; even in the light of international world sciences that prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that they don't know their butts from shinola. Sorry guys, Joseph Smith lied to you big time when he tried to sell your hillbilly ancestors on the scam that the Native Americans were Hebrew and really the lost tribes of Israel. More than efficient criminal DNA technology has already proven beyond any shadow of a doubt that they are in fact Orientals and their is no debate on this from any college in the world. Experts huh? 14,000,000 fine dressed clean shaven church members can't be wrong? What if the world really is less than 26,000 years old? Stone ages, but what about custom clay mixes or are the tablets stone or what? Clue me in please. This bearded longhair wants to know...............

 

[gollum]

Roy,

The Peraltas that had mines in the Bradshaws were not from the exact same family. The Peraltas that mined the Bradshaws had gone with De Anza to the Californias in 1776. After 60 or so years there, they kind of struck out, and were on their way back to Sonora when they found some rich gold deposits in the Bradshaws, and stayed for a while to work them.

The Peraltas whose family history (the history comes from both the Gonzales and Peralta Families) shows that they had mines in the Superstitions were from South of present day New Mexico (the exact name of the town eludes me). This is the same family (the main owners were the Gonzales Family) that had one rich gold mine somewhere in the Anza-Borrego Desert Area. That is where Adolph and Erwin Ruth come into the story.

The family history goes that the Peraltas were the main mine owners in the Supers, while their good friends, the Gonzales', were given part ownership of a couple of their mines. Because they had much less work, the Gonzales Group was finished up much quicker than the Peralta Group. The head Peralta told the Gonzales' to go ahead and wait for them at a certain Indian Encampment while they finished their work for the season. The Gonzales' left, and shortly after that, is when the massacre happened. The Gonzales Family History states that the Peraltas in Mexico blamed the Gonzales for the massacre because they left before the Peraltas (even though they were told to). The families for the most part never spoke again (except for a few members). Neither the Gonzales nor the Peralta Families ever went back North of the new border, because they considered it cursed. The Gonzales Family had mine maps in their possession for many years until about 1904 when Erwin Ruth saved a Mexican friend named Gonzales from an almost certain death in Mexican Government hands with a bribe, and was offered the maps as a sort of Thank You.

Best-Mike

 

[cactusjumper]

Mr. Fork,

"Personally, the terms "experts" in this day and age is as wide an angle as choosing which toilet paper to by. What credentials do they have to support anything historical that goes anywhere beyond theory."

Your own "expertise" shows a decided lack of knowledge in historical facts. Your ability to "judge" other's credentials is questionable, at best.

There are many members who post here who show obvious historical knowledge and the ability to research any topic. Your own "skills" have only produced disjointed, historically fictional (unsubstantiated) posts. In that regard, you are obviously holding hands with bowman, or are actually him.......with a slightly better proofreader.

My own research into the Stone Maps has taken me back to Juan de Grijalva (Grijalba). I found that he had sent back a great deal more treasure in the first ship than in the second that returned at a later date. While that could be explained by many factors, it does (at least) raise the suspicion that he may have held back a personal cache.

Moving along, I found an account of Blas Peralta, who was from the Arispe district. That would be the Peralta family of LDM legend. I believe his son married the daughter of Don Salvador Julian Moreno, who had fallen on hard times. Not being at home right now, I could be mistaken about who married who.

"In 1765, Moreno burdened his estate with a capellanía -- a lien that generated an annual interest payment of 5 percent -- to benefit his son Joseph Maria Buenaventura Moreno, who was studying for the priesthood at the Colegio de San Yldefonso in Mexico City. The principal totaled 4,000 pesos: half that amount came from the legacy (which Don Salvador and Doña Beatriz had matched) of Juan Joseph de Grijalba, a secular priest and family friend." That lien kept the Moreno estate solvent for the next 30 years. The Peralta lands were adjoined by holdings owned by Juan and Pedro Ballesteros. That name may be familiar to you, but I have my doubts.

This is but a very small slice of the history that manages to find its way into the LDM legend. The connections are nebulous, to be sure, but it's amazing how the same names, attached to treasure, seem to repeat themselves over the centuries.

I noticed you are now calling Waltz by his real name, which shows you have learned something by joining this topic. Not bad considering the time you have put in here and your resistance to facts.

Joe Ribaudo

 

[Twisted Fork]

Well I see you two have done your homework and I can't question your sources at this point but still do not doubt that you are correct. As a matter of fact, I have a Jesuit spirit guide who for one reason or another, still wanders the old military loop , walking from state to state, mine to mine as though he is damned in some way. It's not like I can just talk to him and expect an answer at whim, but he has appeared to me once on the slope of an ancient Aztec gold mine here in Utah. One day in a near foggy, crackling atmosphere that sometimes precedes a late summer mountain rain, I stopped to catch my breath for a few moments. I was using a willow and following a strong pull on an exact course of 58 degrees compass, from a certain Spanish carved tree that dates back to the early 1700's. As I gazed up the mountain trying to see through the mist pockets, I suddenly noticed a rather tall and plump fellow standing a bit off to my right and around 25 feet ahead of me. It only took a second to realize that he was semi-transparent as well. On his face was a kind and friendly smile as he stood on the slope above, standing in much the same stance as I. He wore an out fit of crimson red; a skull cap, a long sleeved vest like coat, a blouse with small ruffled edges and a full length skirt that went to 4 inches off the ground and he was wearing sandals. Along the edges of his coat, sleeves and cap, there was an embroidered looping trim of gold 1 inch wide and a cross around his neck. As I stood with my staff, so did he. After gazing at him for near to 10 seconds, I adjusted my footing and hold on the slope as it was quite steep. As I moved, so did he exactly. and in my great surprise at the moment he gave me a great big grin for you see he was fully animated. I grinned back with a chuckle and adjusted my footing again only this time taking a step up closer towards him, and again he moved as I exactly. He grinned again and I about did an uncontrollable summer salt. I turned at that moment to a friend just down the slope below me quickly speaking under my voice "Did you see that?" They said what? I turned back as I spoke out loud "That!" and in the same moment the Monk slowly faded from view with an even bigger smile on his face than before.

This is how I treasure hunt and he has taught me many things in the wilderness that cannot be bound up in books. He has bumped me from danger more than once. First we go straight to the mine. In the trips following, my past experience and his thoughtful approach leads me through various marker chains from the inside out and beyond. This guy knows the whole system everywhere. I figure he was pushing 60 years of age from the looks of him at which time he must have passed. I haven't seen him since with my eyes, but he comes to me when another trip is in order and I never come home empty handed without finding direct visual contact of works done through his supervision by the hands of those under him.

These are ancient work sites that predate the Peraltas and the gold that went back to Spain was collective from tunnels as far North as the mapped King's peak and possibly into Idaho. Evidence of them have been found here in Utah, dating back to the early 1600's. This means that they easily had some where in the area of 400 years on the trail in and around Arizona. The Native works are the best. Thanks for the info guys, hope we can figure more to share. The Bowman Blind? Well thats a matter of opinion.

 

[gollum]

??

 

[somehiker]

Quote:
"He wore an out fit of crimson red; a skull cap, a long sleeved vest like coat, a blouse with small ruffled edges and a full length skirt that went to 4 inches off the ground and he was wearing sandals. Along the edges of his coat, sleeves and cap, there was an embroidered looping trim of gold 1 inch wide and a cross around his neck."

Is this the guy?
Cummon,Confess....

SH.

 

[Twisted Fork]

Very similar other than it wasn't so ornate. The coat had no collar and there was a matching vest underneath with buttons. The gold trim was only around the edges of his sleeves, his cap and the open edges of his coat. The trim was about an inch wide like a looped scroll. He also wore a golden rope around his waist that hung down some ways. The colors are the same though. There appeared to be a lacy white shirt collar showing at the neck line.

 

[Oroblanco]

Twisted Fork wrote

There is still reason to believe that they mined in Arizona. From what I understand, they were based in Sonora and one must wonder why they are and have been such a prominent part of Arizona history going back long before the tablets were ever known to exist. Personally, the terms "experts" in this day and age is as wide an angle as choosing which toilet paper to by. What credentials do they have to support anything historical that goes anywhere beyond theory. Most believe that the pictographs of the West were done by the natives, when in reality most of them are really treasure maps drawn by the monks. Native Americans would no sooner carve into an ancestors face as they would a mountain face as they believed all things have a soul. Not to get back on Mormons again God forbid, but they have an entire University system that claims to be experts on American history after 150 years of what they call award wining archeology in the field and lab, thus proving beyond any shadow of a doubt that the book of Mormon is more than real in explicit detail; even in the light of international world sciences that prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that they don't know their butts from shinola. Sorry guys, Joseph Smith lied to you big time when he tried to sell your hillbilly ancestors on the scam that the Native Americans were Hebrew and really the lost tribes of Israel. More than efficient criminal DNA technology has already proven beyond any shadow of a doubt that they are in fact Orientals and their is no debate on this from any college in the world. Experts huh? 14,000,000 fine dressed clean shaven church members can't be wrong? What if the world really is less than 26,000 years old? Stone ages, but what about custom clay mixes or are the tablets stone or what? Clue me in please. This bearded longhair wants to know...............

It seems that I have hit a nerve. You cast a very wide net in this post and I must beg your indulgence in order to attempt to address your several different points.

Yes the Peraltas mined gold in Arizona and silver in Sonora, just no record of them ever owning anything in the Superstitions. I have researched Arizona history and have not found the Peraltas to have been all that important or influential, in fact it is a bit of a "hunt" to find records mentioning them at all.

Most of the pictographs in the American West are drawn by MONKS? Have you any way to show some evidence to back this assertion up? If not, I will continue to trust that the vast majority of pictographs found in the American West are in fact drawn by Amerindians, though there are a handful which appear to have been done by foreign visitors.

You don't like the opinions of those several experts who examined the Peralta Stones and stated they were modern frauds? This could be a personal bias on your own part, for I have to wonder just what your reaction would be if they had pronounced them to be utterly genuine? Would you still hold them in such contempt?

Back on the Mormons again? I don't know what bone you have to pick with that religious group, but since I am not a member of their church I can't really say just what they are responsible for. I do suspect that those original gold plates very well could have been quite different in origins and meaning from what Smith deciphered, (the site where he found them is not far from my boyhood home, along the Susquehanna river in NE PA) I have not been able to either examine them or see photos of them so cannot say for certain. I have not seen a lot of harm done by the Latter Day Saints, which is more than I can say for a few religious groups.

You state that the Amerindians are absolutely Orientals and DNA backs you up so there is no debate? Apparently you have not heard about DNA Haplogroup X, a minority of Amerindians who have absolutely undeniably European ancestry. The History Channel ran a program not long ago titled "Ice Age Columbus" if you have a chance I suggest you see it, you might be surprised. A side note here but Thomas Jefferson and William Penn thought that the Amerindians were in fact some of the Lost Tribes of Israel, and there are cultural parallels found among them. This of course does not prove the book of Mormon to be true. Check out
http://www.pbs.org/saf/1406/features/dna2.htm

The world is less than 26,000 years old? Have you studied geology Mr Fork? Just my opinion but any serious lost mine hunter or prospector needs at least a basic understanding of geology, and once you have it those extremely young ages proposed for Earth become impossible. Are you aware that the true age of Creation has been calculated by religious scholars using the clues hidden in the bible, and their figure is virtually the same as the scientific age? The error comes in when folks try to get the age of the world by adding up the years of the Patriarchs, when no where in the bible does it say that this will give you the age of the world. Remember, "with the Lord a day is a thousand years" and this appears twice, if you do the math you don't come up with 26,000.

Back to those stone tablets - do you know that one of those experts who examined them found unmistakable marks made by an electric drill bit? I am fairly sure they didn't have electric drills in the southwest in 1847.

I will take it as a "YES" that you do have and make use of a Familiar Spirit, which you have mentioned several times including one which you identify as a dead Jesuit Priest. As a self-professed Born Again Christian, you must already know what the bible says about using familiar spirits right? If not, check out

1 Samuel 28 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1 Samuel+28&version=KJV
1 Chronicles 10:13 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1 Chronicles+10:13&version=KJV

Good luck and good hunting Twisted Fork, I hope you will find the treasures that you seek, and that you will tell your Spirit Guide to go back where he came from..
Oroblanco