The Peralta Stones

[Javaone]

Hi Mike,

Maybe you can help me with this. I am not a fraction as knowledgeable about the Jesuit teachings as you are, but I am trying to read as much as I can about it. Hard to stay focused.

When a Jesuit Priest is teaching a young apprentice, the Priest (back then) was not the kindest, the priest was very direct and unyielding with his directions. Example: If the Priest told the apprentice to go across the canyon, the apprentice would do so – but that’s it, he would not go any further until instructed to do so by the Priest. A day may pass, a week, a month, but the apprentice would wait (doing whatever was necessary to survive) for further instruction. My point is; He would follow the Priests instruction to the letter without question.

Am I close with this summation?
Jerry

 

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[gollum]

Hi Mike,

Maybe you can help me with this. I am not a fraction as knowledgeable about the Jesuit teachings as you are, but I am trying to read as much as I can about it. Hard to stay focused.

When a Jesuit Priest is teaching a young apprentice, the Priest (back then) was not the kindest, the priest was very direct and unyielding with his directions. Example: If the Priest told the apprentice to go across the canyon, the apprentice would do so – but that’s it, he would not go any further until instructed to do so by the Priest. A day may pass, a week, a month, but the apprentice would wait (doing whatever was necessary to survive) for further instruction. My point is; He would follow the Priests instruction to the letter without question.

Am I close with this summation?
Jerry

I don't know if they were as bad as all that. Mostly it would depend on the individual Jesuits. There were/are no stupid Jesuit Priests. They are very carefully picked. Someone of lesser intellect may be a coadjutor, but would never be able to make it as a Priest.

That being said, the Jesuit's Vow of Obedience is the most important Vow they make. So, if your situation did happen, that is exactly what would occur.

Best-Mike

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

HMM Gully, that brngs up an interesting point. Rome ---> local Jesuits, we never did any mining! As so it came to pass and w
as.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[gollum]

Jose,

Of course. The Ecclesiastical Precept against Jesuit Mining or having any knowledge of mining meant a few things:

1. If the Jesuit Priests Mined, then ALL the Jesuits lied about their involvement (from top to bottom).

2. If only the Priests did it, knowing it was against an Ecclesiastical Precept, they would have knowingly violated their Vow of Obedience which was a Mortal Sin.

3. The only loophole in that Precept (and Jesuits were great at finding loopholes), would be for people who had taken a Vow of Obedience to the Order, but not professed their final vows, could mine. These men were called Temporal Coadjutors. Men who were not constrained from operating businesses for profit (with a lot of that profit going to the College in their Rectorate), enlisting in the military and police, running for public office, etc. All the things that a Jesuit Priest could not do, and would place these individuals in positions to be of great aid to the Order.

Best-Mike

 

[cactusjumper]

Mike,

"The only loophole in that Precept (and Jesuits were great at finding loopholes), would be for people who had taken a Vow of Obedience to the Order, but not professed their final vows, could mine. These men were called Temporal Coadjutors. Men who were not constrained from operating businesses for profit (with a lot of that profit going to the College in their Rectorate), enlisting in the military and police, running for public office, etc. All the things that a Jesuit Priest could not do, and would place these individuals in positions to be of great aid to the Order."

Interesting post. Would you mind citing a few documented cases where such things took place?

Thanks in advance,

Joe

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

JOE, How about Tayopa to start with?

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[gollum]

Mike,

"The only loophole in that Precept (and Jesuits were great at finding loopholes), would be for people who had taken a Vow of Obedience to the Order, but not professed their final vows, could mine. These men were called Temporal Coadjutors. Men who were not constrained from operating businesses for profit (with a lot of that profit going to the College in their Rectorate), enlisting in the military and police, running for public office, etc. All the things that a Jesuit Priest could not do, and would place these individuals in positions to be of great aid to the Order."

Interesting post. Would you mind citing a few documented cases where such things took place?

Thanks in advance,

Joe

Joe,

The Jesuit Order has made it a practice from day one never to publish lists of their Temporal Coadjutors. That way, nobody would be in any position to cry foul when somebody makes any rulings favorable to the Order.

My friend at Georgetown University (a Jesuit Priest of many years and one of the foremost scholars of Jesuit History) told me that temporal coadjutors make up (yes, even to this day) anywhere from 1/2 to 2/3 of the total membership of the Order. That is the actual purpose of the temporal coadjutor. To take care of the TEMPORAL (read: Earthly) needs of the Order, while the Priests handle the Spiritual side of things.

My Georgetown Friend said that he had no personal knowledge of it, but he wouldn't put it past the Order, nor does he have any problem with it.Like I said, that is what the Temporal Coadjutor does. What somebody would have to do is get the financial statements from the Colegios of the various Rectorates throughout the New World, and look for large regular influxes of money from the same people. THAT would be the mine owners secretly working on behalf of the Order. In order to find out who was working on their behalf in the military and government, one might go through all the legal proceedings involving the Order. See if any judges regularly ruled in their favor (even against evidence).

One glaring example is the arrest and incarceration of (at the time) General Juan Mateo Manje. He was a close friend of Padre Eusebio Francisco Kino SJ. He accompanied him on most of his journeys of exploration. He was a friend of the Order for most of his career. He finds that the Priests are spending so much time converting and tending to the Indios, they had been neglecting the spiritual needs of the Spanish Settlers. He wrote a letter stating as much to the Bishop. Next thing you know, GENERAL Manje was being arrested and jailed for his indiscretion. How much power and influence do you think the Jesuit Order had to get a GENERAL arrested and jailed for writing a simple factual letter?

Best-Mike

 

[Javaone]

Thanks Gollum, interesting...

Just a FYI - for those following

The formation of Jesuit brothers has a much less structured form. Prior to the Second Vatican Council, Jesuit brothers worked almost exclusively within Jesuit communities as cooks, tailors, farmers, secretaries, accountants, librarians and maintenance support—they were thus technically known as "temporal coadjutors", as they assisted the professed priests by undertaking the more "worldly" jobs, freeing the professed of the four vows and the "spiritual coadjutors" to undertake the sacramental and spiritual missions of the Society. Following the Second Vatican Council, which recognized the mission of all the Christian faithful, not just those who are ordained, to share in the ministries of the Church, Jesuit brothers began to engage in ministries outside of their communities. Today, the formation of a Jesuit brother may take many forms, depending on his aptitude for ministry. He may pursue a highly academic formation which mirrors that of the scholastics (there are, for instance, some Jesuit brothers who serve as university professors), or he may pursue more practical training in areas such as pastoral counseling or spiritual direction (some assist in giving retreats, for instance), or he may continue in the traditional "supporting" roles in which so many Jesuit brothers have attained notable levels of holiness (as administrative aides, for example). Since Vatican II the Society has officially adopted the term "brother", which was always the unofficial form of address for the temporal coadjutors.

 

[gollum]

Joe,

Another thing regarding Temporal Coadjutors is that since their identities are all secret, just like Masonry, they are subject to all kinds of INSANE theories and accusations. All you have to do is Google the term "Jesuit temporal coadjutor". You will see everybody being accused of being one. Sort of like "SHE'S A WITCH!" "HE'S A COMMUNIST!" "THEY ARE DEMOCRATS!" HAHAHA

What that does is make whomever uses the term sound a little off.

Mike

 

[Javaone]

From my previous post - "they were thus technically known as "temporal coadjutors", as they assisted the professed priests by undertaking the more "worldly" jobs, freeing the professed of the four vows"

hmmm... Can you say "loop hole"?...

 

[cactusjumper]

Don Jose and Mike,

Thank you for your replies. From your posts, I must assume there are no historical documents to back up your claims. In other words, it's all.....stories.

Mike,

"Another thing regarding Temporal Coadjutors is that since their identities are all secret, just like Masonry....."

Can you supply a source for either of those claims?

Thank you,

Joe

 

[gollum]

Don Jose and Mike,

Thank you for your replies. From your posts, I must assume there are no historical documents to back up your claims. In other words, it's all.....stories.

Mike,

"Another thing regarding Temporal Coadjutors is that since their identities are all secret, just like Masonry....."

Can you supply a source for either of those claims?

Thank you,

Joe

Joe,

Check your email.

Best-Mike

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

HI joe, you posted -->From your posts, I must assume there are no historical documents to back up your claims. In other words, it's all.....stories.
Mike,
****************

All in good time my friend, all in good time, and now is not it.
Snicker

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[somehiker]

Darn you and your ultraviolet lamp,Mike.Ya got me again,cause I could have sworn that it said "The Jesuit Cook Book".
I been giving BB a bit of lattitude,seeing as how his spelling needs a bit of remedial work anyways.
The recipe's are nothing short of miraculous.Try the one on pg.1847....."Fish dinner for 5000"
You might run out of chips and tartar sauce,though.

Regards:SH.

I don't know about page1847, but maybe if you peak at Isaiah 18:4-7?

Maybe verse 7 has something to do with the folks who are supposed to have been guarding that Jesuit Loot all these years? Just a thought.

Mike

I know.Date,distance or biblical reference?Throw in the possibility of numerical coding of some kind and it all becomes a process of elimination of any which would have no value in leading to a solution.

Regards:SH.

Sure, pick any association you wish. How about azimuth? 1847-(5)(360)=47 degrees. Ha ha. Or (6)(360)-1847=313 degress. Ho ho. The possibilities are endless and the use of 1847 is only known by its original user and his confederates. If the whole shebang is a prank, 1847 may be meaningless. In fact, it may be meaningless even if the stones aren't a prank. What if you were designing a treasure map?

Far from meaningless.The 1847 within the heart cavity may very well be the most important inscription that is evident.The fact that it is larger and more well defined than any other font of any of the stones,as well as the fact that it was carved into the recess itself,rather than on the outer surface,leads me to suspect that the 1847 is neither date nor direction.It is more likely to be a major component of the solution IMHO.

If I ever were to attempt the design of a "treasure" map,the result would be similar to what I posted previously.

Regards:SH.

 

[Blindbowman]

lol shhhh, i am reading

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

BB, This is a family oriented forum, no L & L materiel please.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Blindbowman]

BB, This is a family oriented forum, no L & L materiel please.

Don Jose de La Mancha

how do yas think the families get started ...lol

 

[Javaone]

Far from meaningless.The 1847 within the heart cavity may very well be the most important inscription that is evident.The fact that it is larger and more well defined than any other font of any of the stones,as well as the fact that it was carved into the recess itself,rather than on the outer surface,leads me to suspect that the 1847 is neither date nor direction.It is more likely to be a major component of the solution IMHO.

If I ever were to attempt the design of a "treasure" map,the result would be similar to what I posted previously.

Regards:SH.

I completely concur with you SH. This topic (1847) has been touched upon many times - Just look back over the last 30 days.
It is on the Priest/Witch/Perseus stone , and very predominant on the trail stone. Hmmm – The beginning and the end…
Jerry

 

[somehiker]

Interesting,isn't it Jerry,that the "P" of PELIGROZA is the last of the full size letters in that particular inscription.
"A horse! a horse! my kingdom for a horse!" said the King.....but I don't think that he meant Perseus.
Pegasus may have been of more use.

Regards:SH.

 

[Javaone]

Interesting,isn't it Jerry,that the "P" of PELIGROZA is the last of the full size letters in that particular inscription.
"A horse! a horse! my kingdom for a horse!" said the King.....but I don't think that he meant Perseus.
Pegasus may have been of more use.

Regards:SH.

Ohh.. Don't get me wrong SH - I think the "Horse" and the "Priest/Witch/Perseus" map have a HUGE connection...