The Peralta Stones

gollum said:
Elli,

Those were the words of Jacob Waltz himself. He mistook those two Mexican Peons for Indians.

Actually, he and Weiser. At least that is what he told Julia Thomas, who then told it to Sims Ely.

Mike
Click to expand...

Yes, that statement as was told by Sims Ely. However, Indians never dug for gold as they took it off of the dead white eyes they had killed. Apaches hated manual labor, their women did all the work, never a warrior. Sims Ely was selling action western books concerning greed and the evil doings of man. He expanded the "Dutchman Mine Legend" in order to sell more books.

Making money by living off of the dead; especially those who cannot defend themselves. Pierpoint was another rogue who wrote western shoot-em up books and started the whole mess.You know that he never had any claims near Weaver's Needle? His claims sere located in the Cave Creek area north of Phoenix, closer to the Scottsdale area. He had first hand information about the whereabouts of Jacob's lost mine and still he put his money on a location miles away.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=s&ie=UTF8&ll=33.568861,-111.956177&spn=1.043554,1.755066&z=9
Go figure, later,

E B

P. S. This is my opinion combined with what I have learned from my friendship with Jesse Feldman and his latest book; Jacob's Trail, the Legend of Jacob Waltz's LDM.
 

Elli,

That may be your opinion, but I think it is on shaky ground. To make a statement like that makes it look like you haven't read Sims Ely's Book. It is the most referenced and detailed book I have seen. Also, Ely was there and actually spoke to the people with first hand knowledge of Waltz and his mine.

While I have stated previously that my top three books on the DLM are by:

#1 Sims Ely

#2 Thomas Glover

#3 Helen Corbin

I have to now add a fourth:

#4 Curt Gentry "The Killer Mountains" I just got it and read it through in the first night. Excellent read.

But Elli, if you have read Ely's Book and that was the impression you got from it, then you need to reread it. Ely and Bark spent the better part of SEVENTY YEARS looking for and researching the DLM.

Mike
 

Mike,

That's a pretty good list, but Robert Blair's "Tales of the Superstitions" surely has to be in the top four.
I have a couple of copies of "The Killer Mountains", one is inscribed to Gentry's "Mom". Nice little note to the lady.

It's a great read but, personally, I would not place it in the top five or six. Too much fluff in the book for my taste. I spoke on the phone with one of Magill's team members at last years Rendezvous. The Rendezvous is an event that no Dutch Hunter should miss. Just too much history in one camp on that weekend.

Take care,

Joe
 

Hi Mike,

Thanks for the references. It has been many years since I have read the books you have mentioned. There are certain aspects from each book along with many others that do project some truths that I will not argue, based on some very good research.

A house is only as strong as its foundation and my research through the years takes on a different perspective.

Take a few moments and check out this link: http://www.newswithviews.com/Evensen/greg155.htm

Once you have read it please give me your opinion and I will give you mine. Please understand that I do agree in part to what he is saying and a couple areas may be stretched somewhat.

People say that an opinion is like an ass h___. Every one has one. Have you ever looked at one close up? Truly understanding what it represents? I have also been accused of not taking a closer look and then one day a few folks opened my eyes. I became aware of the truth and from that moment I started to walk another path, most of the time alone, mainly because I didn't run with the herd any more. I became an individual depending on myself to find the truth and dust off all the years of believing false truths taught to us in school, college and in the corporate world. As I have said many times just take a look at what is happening around us and you will find the good and the evil and we are loosing our country at such a quickening pace that it boggles the mind.

I am rambling,

Later,

Ellie B
 

It seems we are in agreement about the article. I agree in principle, but much of it was VERY stretched.

You should most definitely reread Ely's Book.

Best-Mike
 

Ellie Baba said:
Hi Mike,

Thanks for the references. It has been many years since I have read the books you have mentioned. There are certain aspects from each book along with many others that do project some truths that I will not argue, based on some very good research.

A house is only as strong as its foundation and my research through the years takes on a different perspective.

Take a few moments and check out this link: http://www.newswithviews.com/Evensen/greg155.htm

Once you have read it please give me your opinion and I will give you mine. Please understand that I do agree in part to what he is saying and a couple areas may be stretched somewhat.

People say that an opinion is like an ass h___. Every one has one. Have you ever looked at one close up? Truly understanding what it represents? I have also been accused of not taking a closer look and then one day a few folks opened my eyes. I became aware of the truth and from that moment I started to walk another path, most of the time alone, mainly because I didn't run with the herd any more. I became an individual depending on myself to find the truth and dust off all the years of believing false truths taught to us in school, college and in the corporate world. As I have said many times just take a look at what is happening around us and you will find the good and the evil and we are loosing our country at such a quickening pace that it boggles the mind.

I am rambling,

Later,

Ellie B
Click to expand...
"I read the article as well and also feel it was a little negative." Heres one interesting though. """"((((Robonaut 2))))"""" will be the first humanoid robot in space, taking up residence at the International Space Station once it is delivered by the shuttle Discovery in November.

The goal is to build a robot that can help astronauts with their daily tasks, especially those that are repetitive or especially dangerous. A humanoid robot will not require a redesign of interfaces and tools that are already in place for the space station's carbon-based hominid residents.

This robot is already doing outreach before launch. Robonaut 2 has been interacting with the world, 140 characters at a time, "since last week." Aug. 4, 10 a.m. Central Time, R2 began hosting a special twitter interview.

To ask a question, tweet @AstroRobonaut and include the hashtag #4R2.


I, for one, welcome our tweeting robot overlords.
 

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cactusjumper said:
Mike,

That's a pretty good list, but Robert Blair's "Tales of the Superstitions" surely has to be in the top four.
I have a couple of copies of "The Killer Mountains", one is inscribed to Gentry's "Mom". Nice little note to the lady.

It's a great read but, personally, I would not place it in the top five or six. Too much fluff in the book for my taste. I spoke on the phone with one of Magill's team members at last years Rendezvous. The Rendezvous is an event that no Dutch Hunter should miss. Just too much history in one camp on that weekend.

Take care,

Joe
Click to expand...

I just ordered a copy of Blair's Book.

The only place it slowed a little for me was the second half. Everything regarding the research and interviews held my attention. I was very interested in his interview with Gertrude Barkley. Seems like she knew who killed Adolph Ruth, and he was alive in the 1960s.

Mike
 

Ellie Baba said:
gollum said:
Elli,

Those were the words of Jacob Waltz himself. He mistook those two Mexican Peons for Indians.

Actually, he and Weiser. At least that is what he told Julia Thomas, who then told it to Sims Ely.

Mike
Click to expand...

Yes, that statement as was told by Sims Ely. However, Indians never dug for gold as they took it off of the dead white eyes they had killed. Apaches hated manual labor, their women did all the work, never a warrior. Sims Ely was selling action western books concerning greed and the evil doings of man. He expanded the "Dutchman Mine Legend" in order to sell more books.

Making money by living off of the dead; especially those who cannot defend themselves. Pierpoint was another rogue who wrote western shoot-em up books and started the whole mess.You know that he never had any claims near Weaver's Needle? His claims sere located in the Cave Creek area north of Phoenix, closer to the Scottsdale area. He had first hand information about the whereabouts of Jacob's lost mine and still he put his money on a location miles away.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=s&ie=UTF8&ll=33.568861,-111.956177&spn=1.043554,1.755066&z=9
Go figure, later,

E B

P. S. This is my opinion combined with what I have learned from my friendship with Jesse Feldman and his latest book; Jacob's Trail, the Legend of Jacob Waltz's LDM.
Click to expand...

Ellie,

What parts of Sims Ely's book do you disagree with and why? Yours is the first opinion I've heard that places his book in the "pulp fiction" sort of genre in which he's intent on selling alot of books - there must be some documented, factual reasons why you believe this? Are you willing to go on the record with some of that information?

While I'm not completely sold on the fact that Ely's book is the be all and end all of Lost Dutchman stories, it's a fact that his is one of (if not THE) premier early accounts of the LDM and his sources go back to some of the closest living people of Waltz's era.

I personally believe that one can question his book based on the long time span between his experiences and his writing, the fact that we don't know what sort of editing may have taken place, the fact that Mr Ely may possibly not have been of "sound mind" when he wrote it, and the possibility that key information may have been altered or left out due to promises to the Bark family. Beyond those however (at least for me), I just haven't seen enough evidence to question Ely's account - again, if you have, are you willing to share some of those reasons here or in private?

The one thing I can assure you is that I'm pretty open minded - at least to a point :)
 

SFNM, I, unfortunately, am in general agreement about the US's future, but I also realize that it is too late. The US of today, and the one that I grew up in, are almost in opposition. As for a physical revolt, I sincerely doubt it, except for a minor one, which will quickly be contained

As for a political one, just where will you ever find any candidates for the higher public offices that aren't previously hand picked by the elite ? This includes both present political parties.

Incidentally, if you are the least interested in the prophesies, the US is conspicuously absent?? why?? Has it been neutralized?

As for the LDM, I am basically a neutral outsider, I have no irons being heated in the fire, but will post from time to time, both pro and con on any statements made in here..

Don Jose de La Mancha
 

Mike,

Once again, I would suggest that anyone interested in the Stone Maps visit Garry Cundiff's site and pay particular attention to the Richard Peck documents:

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~gcundiff/LostDutchman/Dutchman.htm

It becomes obvious that Tumlinson was trying to use the Stone Maps to find "investors". He was also in the process of writing a book. That means that the Stone Maps were being used in an attempt to generate income or future income, outside of finding a treasure.

It appears that the zero's on the back side of the heart were carved by Tumlinson himself. Who knows what other "evidence" he manufactured.

What I am beginning to wonder, is if Tumlinson wasn't actually a Dutch Hunter who was looking for something, or someone, to support his hobby. I am still inclined to believe the trail maps are the real thing, showing the terrain in the mountains.

The evidence points to a Spanish speaking, not their first language, person as the creator of the Horse/Priest Stone. That fits Ted DeGrazia to a "T".

Take care,

Joe
 

The Beloved Cactus Wrote: """"The evidence points to a Spanish speaking, not their first language, person as the creator of the Horse/Priest Stone. That fits Ted DeGrazia to a "T"."""""" My Response: """"Guaranteed""""" He also carved """"Bluff Spring mountain spring mountain"""" into a horse a priest a heart and an apache face from the "Center" to the observation point of 1847m Snaped to the grid, this guy was very talented at geoglyph carving, and map making as he did have a 400 man crew. and made a wonderful supervisor.
 

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Ted DeGrazia was not alive in 1646 ,, sorry CJ i would normally give you the shadow of a doudt but in this case i know the stones were made in 1646, why because the letter is in the same code ,and no one has broken the code or the statue would have been gone ..in 1959 so even if ted had these skill he did not make the stones in fact i have to beleive that Jesuit priest at tayopa is the only one that could have made them ..who ever made the stones knew what was on the letter and how it would be coded ,, its simple logic . if we did not know that then i would have agreed with you most likely ...
 

i guess the real question to ask ... is did the peralta have any direct link to the Jesuit priest of Tayopa ..?

the reason i ask .. is simple .. storm says LDM was one of the 18 peralta mines , is he talking about 18 peralta mines or is he talking about the 18 tayopa mines .. wich i will confirm the LDM is one of those tayopa mines
 

always lost said:
i guess the real question to ask ... is did the peralta have any direct link to the Jesuit priest of Tayopa ..?

Realize that the name Peralta is as common to Hispanic surnames as Smith or Jones is to we Caucasians. I would guarantee that at least one of the Peraltas would indeed have a direct link to a Jesuit Priest. You realize of course that most of the children attended Jesuit Based Schools and I have a number of friends that have attended such schools.

the reason i ask .. is simple .. storm says LDM was one of the 18 peralta mines , is he talking about 18 peralta mines or is he talking about the 18 tayopa mines .. which i will confirm the LDM is one of those tayopa mines
Click to expand...

When speaking of Peraltas = Tayopa who knows? I will bet that the Peraltas could have been involved in the Tayopa Mine Legend that relates to Mexico. The 18 Peralta Mines that Storm is addressing is related to the 18 Peralta Mines of the Soups located near Apache Junction in Arizona. No where to my knowledge has anyone written about 18 Tayopa Mines. You are the first one to mention a particular number of mines (18?) when mentioning Tayopa. Are you introducing a new Tayopa Mine Legend?

The LDM is not a Toyopa Mine, you must really get a better understanding of geography relating to the location of Tayopa. This would make as much sense as the State Capitol of Arizona being located in the city of Kingman, AZ.

Does not compute my friend, nope!

If you have some documentation to back your statements up I would be willing to consider the facts.
Later Always Lost,

Ellie B.
 

timeing my friend , its all about not getting my self killed trying to claim it ..

the tayopa letter says 17 but if you count the tayopa her self that makes 18 .. and the peralta were active in 1609 .. yet if the stones are correct the tayopa mines are in the supers and there is not a question about it what so ever , and your not telling me anything scott did not say .. i fully under stand what your saying .. but the fact is i do have out right prof and when it is time i will make it public ..

and i agree the legends do not reflect what i now know is true .. but i believe that's why the mine has not been found till now ..

i am sorry i would love to post what i have but with no claim in place its not going to happen , but it will ...

the only reason i stated they were tayopa mines is because of the stones and letter .. there is no dismissing them .. they are real and i can lay prof on the table when its time to .. you help make it happen and i will shock every treasure hunter that breath air on this planet ... fact ! and it wont be some crazy BS ether .. straight up i will translate the stone and prove it ...on a topo map .. when i make the mine public .. there will be no doubt what so ever ..

there is only one Lost Dutchman mine even if waltz was high grading the old Ma mine it is one of a kind ...when i explain the history and you can see how it fits the mine .. you will all know the LDM has been found .. do just stand there telling me show prof .. help me find a way to protect my discovery and show the world the mine has been found ..

lets hear some ideas on how to claim it legally ...scot has given me a list for permits .. but getting into the mts with out every crazy out there trying to shot me would be real nice ...i am already losing one brother i dont to give up yet , don't let this take another ... i am running out of them .. they faster then a dutch hunter in mts with no water ....

i am not looking for evidence to locate the mine .. i know where it is and i can prove it is the Ma .. i am trying to get in and out of the mts with out getting shot or any in my team getting hurt , and then file a legal claim .. i can set ore on the table in one day .. from the time i go in after it .. that's not a problem ..

do you want to see this end the right way .. the person that found the LDM getting to make a legal claim ..

the government is going to step in and take the treasure trove ..and i may not be able to work the mine it self .. so the claim and the respect of being the one that found the LDM is all i may get from years of hard work and research ..

you want this to all end why , we can live out our childish dreams in reality .. but i agree .. its time to back up my claims . i can if you help ...
 

All,

For those of you who are thinking that the "R" towards the top of the Heart Stone means river, you might want to rethink that opinion. In the first place, the "R" looks like it was not carved at the same time as the rest of the map. :dontknow:

Once you realize that the curvy line touches Parker Pass, and you can follow the Stone Map trails from that point, you will realize that the line means........nothing. I will demonstrate that fact at the Rendezvous for anyone interested.

It will be interesting to see just how many of you can follow a simple topographic map. Bring your reading glasses. :read2: :coffee2:

Take care,

Joe
 

ya they always put lines on maps that mean nothing ,, crazy theory i hope that works for ya ... lol

you may be a good map reader who knows .. the R means rancho
 

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