The Peralta Stones

[Oroblanco]

Always Lost wrote

dear scott wood

I would 'ditto' the remark of our mutual friend Cubfan, it would be wiser (and more likely to get results) if you were to contact Mr Wood through 'official' channels; he may not be reading our discussions here anymore.

Always Lost also wrote

i have found the Tayopa !

May I ask why you call it Tayopa? Believe it or not, I found an old newspaper article that told a story of a woman whom had been captured by Apaches, who showed her "Tayopa" somewhere in the Superstitions, and when she was again free she told her story. <I searched online but apparently that particular newspaper article is not online, sorry> The only detail I got from that article was that the distance to the mine (a gold mine she called Tayopa) must have been much shorter than the Indians wished her to believe, for they took four days to take her to it, but only one day to return to their camp. Anyway if you wouldn't mind explaining why you are calling it Tayopa, which most sources place in Mexico, I would appreciate it; thank you in advance.

Always Lost also wrote

i am not a rich man and i dont value money .. i hope i dont hate it ...

While we have common interests especially when talking treasures, that is one point that I respectfully disagree on - to me, what is a treasure if it has no monetary value? Historical "treasures" are great, but fame is a very fleeting thing; gold however lasts!

Cactusjumper wrote

Here are the facts:

I haven't concluded, positively, that it's man made. Considering where it's located, what it appears to be looking at and the recognizable shape, it could be. The area behind it in the distance is the valley leading to the Massacre Grounds, as well as two crude ore ovens and a small arrastra. I have pictures of it all.

The "priest" looks down on the Stone Map Trail that curves out of West Boulder, goes through a small saddle into Little Boulder and leads directly to the stone heart and triangle. When you get to the saddle, there are a number of claim markers, and to the south of the trail, back in a very brushy ravine, there is a live spring. I couldn't get close to it, but you could hear the water coming out of the ground, and see it running down the ravine. Way too brushy and thick with bees.

It's an interesting area.

Thank you for sharing the beautiful photos Joe; I thought I was fairly familiar with massacre field but have never seen that formation and can't place where it is in relation to it - (is it SW?) however I don't care to mix it up with bees so will definitely take your word on it!
Roy

 

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[Springfield]

.... the corruption of Roosevelt's government, that took the control of your money out of the hands of the people and gave it to ZOG; better know as the Federal Reserve. ....

America's greatest traitor - confiscated millions of Americans' life savings, paid them $20.67/ounce for it, then overnight devalued that payment (value of the dollar) by 40%.

 

[somehiker]

A troubling development,which may affect our pursuits.

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/gold-coin-dealers-decry-tax-law/story?id=11211611

also:http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,337452.0.html

Seems like we are backing up.

Regards:SH.

 

[Cubfan64]

Utterly ridiculous!! Another way for the government to fund their trillions of lousy ideas

 

[cactusjumper]

Roy,

"Thank you for sharing the beautiful photos Joe; I thought I was fairly familiar with massacre field but have never seen that formation and can't place where it is in relation to it - (is it SW?) however I don't care to mix it up with bees, so will definitely take your word on it!"

Thanks for the kind words, but my photos are pretty amateurish compared to some of my friends work, and some folks on this site.

Here is how this is laid out, although I may be a little off on the "SEALED MINE":

I did not see the mine, but stayed down in the bottom of West Boulder. One of my team members made the climb and found the mine. We were in radio contact the whole time.

Take care,

Joe

 

[lotsofgoats]

I don't understand how anyone can claim they found the LDM unless they actually crawled into the mine and found gold or remnants of someone digging for gold along with proof such as photos....

Maybe you guys already know about this but I came across a great hiking site for the superstitions if anyone is interested... Includes pictures along the trails that may be helpful.
http://superstitionmtnhikes.com/Hikes/S_index.html

 

[Blindbowman]

Always Lost wrote

dear scott wood

I would 'ditto' the remark of our mutual friend Cubfan, it would be wiser (and more likely to get results) if you were to contact Mr Wood through 'official' channels; he may not be reading our discussions here anymore.

Always Lost also wrote

i have found the Tayopa !

May I ask why you call it Tayopa? Believe it or not, I found an old newspaper article that told a story of a woman whom had been captured by Apaches, who showed her "Tayopa" somewhere in the Superstitions, and when she was again free she told her story. <I searched online but apparently that particular newspaper article is not online, sorry> The only detail I got from that article was that the distance to the mine (a gold mine she called Tayopa) must have been much shorter than the Indians wished her to believe, for they took four days to take her to it, but only one day to return to their camp. Anyway if you wouldn't mind explaining why you are calling it Tayopa, which most sources place in Mexico, I would appreciate it; thank you in advance.

Always Lost also wrote

i am not a rich man and i dont value money .. i hope i dont hate it ...

While we have common interests especially when talking treasures, that is one point that I respectfully disagree on - to me, what is a treasure if it has no monetary value? Historical "treasures" are great, but fame is a very fleeting thing; gold however lasts!

Cactusjumper wrote

Here are the facts:

I haven't concluded, positively, that it's man made. Considering where it's located, what it appears to be looking at and the recognizable shape, it could be. The area behind it in the distance is the valley leading to the Massacre Grounds, as well as two crude ore ovens and a small arrastra. I have pictures of it all.

The "priest" looks down on the Stone Map Trail that curves out of West Boulder, goes through a small saddle into Little Boulder and leads directly to the stone heart and triangle. When you get to the saddle, there are a number of claim markers, and to the south of the trail, back in a very brushy ravine, there is a live spring. I couldn't get close to it, but you could hear the water coming out of the ground, and see it running down the ravine. Way too brushy and thick with bees.

It's an interesting area.

Thank you for sharing the beautiful photos Joe; I thought I was fairly familiar with massacre field but have never seen that formation and can't place where it is in relation to it - (is it SW?) however I don't care to mix it up with bees so will definitely take your word on it!
Roy

"Anyway if you wouldn't mind explaining why you are calling it Tayopa"


if they call it Tayopa pasto on the horse stone and the stones are in code what logic would there be in calling something it wasn't..? . then this is the Tayopa pasture , they would pasture their horse away from the mine so no one would discover where the mine was located , why would they call this pasture the Tayopa pasture if it was not the pasture for the Tayopa , and it is cut in stone calling it the Tayopa pasture .. ok we now know something about the stones we never knew before the stones were made when the Tayopa was a working mine , why have a pasture if it wasnt .. ? and the fact is now the stones are in fact real and no matter what the confusion is about them after the fact they are related directly to the Tayopa ..

unknown to others the Tayopa and Ma pa mine are one in the same mine .. its one set of twin mines close together and we can now call them the Tayopa mine complex or the Ma Pa mine , look at the Peralta map .. now it is all starting to make scene.. look at the name Tayopa change the T to a M and drop the YO and you have the Ma Pa , so we now see the Peralta stones and map and the Tayopa all fit the same twin mines ... if we say this is the true reason these legends are confused then we can now look at why ..


the true fact is
the Tayopa mine complex ,the Peralta stones , the Peralta map ,and the LDM all share the same factors . with the exception of the LDM being the main focus of the lost Dutchman legend ..., so what are we to believe here , is this the Ma Pa , Tayopa Peralta Dutchman mine ... or to finial stop all the confusion and isolate the main fact , this is the Tayopa with a very complex and confusing past

the mapa mine is renamed to the Tayopa and to end the confusion

we call it what it is named in stone .. the Tayopa

we have not been forth coming for good reason .. the walking stick i found was very very old . maybe as old as 300 or 500 hunderd years .. it was found 150 ft away from the tunnel .. we do believe it was put there to mark the tunnel in 1959..we feel this stick is in some way used on a oxen cards or some how used on pack mules .. and that's how the man in 1959 found it in the tunnel .., it was found at the bottom of the slop on the only way down from the tunnel area , the stick was 1 by 1 and square stock and about 45-48 inches long .. it may be a part off a wagon or oxen card ..

the fact remains . here we can relate the 1959 sighting to the Tayopa and the stones and the Peralta map and a real location ....the fact the statue was still there in 1959 and we can confirm the sights details in part , we think the Tayopa Tunnel is still there and so is the Tayopa treasure trove ... . i pick the stick up in my hand and was thinking it looked out of place ..a few hundred years old but not as weathered as i would think it should have been for its possible age . now i ask my self over and over did the man in 1959 drop it or place it there to mark the way back to the tunnel ..did this stick lay there on the ground 44 years before i picked it up...? are the supers like some great vortex collecting things in vanishing act we don't under stand . logic tells me no .. the stick laid there tell it was found again ...some time the simple solution is the most logical


if you look at all the evidence together and there is hard evidence as well as lots of confusion

the fact is clear ..and there is only one clear solution with all that we know so far ..

this is the Tayopa


think about it

look at the Tayopa stones and the Tayopa map


the Peralta and Waltz well never fade away .. they are part of the greatest mining legend ever

known "The Tayopa !"

 

[cactusjumper]

Roy,

Once I could see where the Stone Map trail was, in relation to the terrain, it became clear (to me) that whatever was being pointed out was in the last map that I posted here.

If that was true, and they were trying to escape an Apache attack, the obvious, easiest and quickest route out of that area and the mountains was through the valley leading to the Massacre Grounds. My guess was that it was a well worn trail.

Now it's just possible that some folks will look at my maps and see how this all connects.

I am still trying to figure out a way to work Cabeza de Vaca into the whole thing.
If anyone cared to check out the history of what I wrote earlier, they will see that the story I created fits the history and places of what actually happened.

That's also true of the earlier yarn I spun here. It's easy to create a treasure tale if you know the land/terrain and the history. With those things in mind I would have no trouble creating a believable treasure map, putting it on the proper kind of paper, photocoping it and presenting the photocopy as supporting evidence for my story.

"That's how it's done son".

Take care,

Joe

 

[Blindbowman]

that and a glass of cold lemon aid , makes for good fiction ... lol

CJ look at the witch stone and think about what the horse stone said ,, Tayopa pasto !

if the witch stone is on the back of the horse stone they are both related to the Tayopa

 

[gollum]

Roy,

Once I could see where the Stone Map trail was, in relation to the terrain, it became clear (to me) that whatever was being pointed out was in the last map that I posted here.

If that was true, and they were trying to escape an Apache attack, the obvious, easiest and quickest route out of that area and the mountains was through the valley leading to the Massacre Grounds. My guess was that it was a well worn trail.

Now it's just possible that some folks will look at my maps and see how this all connects.

I am still trying to figure out a way to work Cabeza de Vaca into the whole thing.
If anyone cared to check out the history of what I wrote earlier, they will see that the story I created fits the history and places of what actually happened.

That's also true of the earlier yarn I spun here. It's easy to create a treasure tale if you know the land/terrain and the history. With those things in mind I would have no trouble creating a believable treasure map, putting it on the proper kind of paper, photocoping it and presenting the photocopy as supporting evidence for my story.

"That's how it's done son".

Take care,

Joe

I don't know Joe,

I kind of like the "I saw the mine from a plane at 36,000 feet, then I make some nutty relationships with various and asundry things from all kinds of nutty places" way of figuring things out! HAHAHA

Best-Mike

 

[cactusjumper]

Mike,

I'm just trying everything I can to hang in with the big dogs......Ya know?

Take care,

Joe

 

[cactusjumper]

bb,

"that and a glass of cold lemon aid , makes for good fiction ... lol

CJ look at the witch stone and think about what the horse stone said ,, Tayopa pasto !

if the witch stone is on the back of the horse stone they are both related to the Tayopa"

Let me tell you what the horse stone is all about. It identifies the two major creators of the Stone Maps, or at least the horse/priest map. The horse says....."I pasture north of the river". I pasture, by definition, means I graze. "DE" is repeated on the stone twice. De Graz........ia.
"Ted" is written on the left side of the horse map. Using the cross for "T" and ED directly below it. Ted De Grazia always signed his work.

The profile of the priest is a dead ringer for Chuck Aylor's profile. Caballo Camp was Chuck's camp. "You would pluck out the heart of my mystery" was part of a line from Shakespeare which was Chuck's favorite. That particular stone was carved by an "artist", as mentioned by Tom Kollenborn. I doubt you can find that on Google, but it's a fact.

Anyone who can't see that is well.........you fill in the blank. I really like the lemonade thingie.

Take care,

Joe

 

[Oroblanco]

I don't understand how anyone can claim they found the LDM unless they actually crawled into the mine and found gold or remnants of someone digging for gold along with proof such as photos....

Maybe you guys already know about this but I came across a great hiking site for the superstitions if anyone is interested... Includes pictures along the trails that may be helpful.
http://superstitionmtnhikes.com/Hikes/S_index.html

I agree, 100%. I don't understand why so many different persons have made that claim, ("I found the LDM") and just ignore that detail about it being a GOLD mine, which most folks will want to see at least a sample. It is after all supposed to be the richest gold mine in the world, not just a hole in the ground of which there are plenty in the Superstitions.

Thank you for sharing that link, and if no one has not said this, "WELCOME TO TREASURENET Lotsofgoats"!

Thank you Joe for the map (helps a great deal) and the explanation. De Vaca hmm? His relation of his adventures is not too detailed on geographic details, with no 'pin point' spot mentioned prior to the Valley of Hearts so... you may have a free-er hand than if we used Coronado.

Always Lost wrote

if they call it Tayopa pasto on the horse stone and the stones are in code what logic would there be in calling something it wasn't..?

Thank you for taking the time to explain, and while I respectfully disagree on calling that site Tayopa, I am not going to argue the point. What is in a name, anyway? A rich gold mine is a rich gold mine, who cares if they call it the LDM or the Rabbit hole? A rose is a rose by any other name.

Oroblanco

 

[cactusjumper]

Roy,

"Thank you for taking the time to explain, and while I respectfully disagree on calling that site Tayopa, I am not going to argue the point. What is in a name, anyway? A rich gold mine is a rich gold mine, who cares if they call it the LDM or the Rabbit hole? A rose is a rose by any other name."

I don't actually care what you call it either, as long as you don't call Tayopa a "gold mine".

Take care,

Joe

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Evening Joe: Tayopa proper is a silver mine, some of the others in the complex, such as the Remedios in the Paramo, do have gold and Quartz gems.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Ellie Baba]

Hi Joe,

Pics, maps and locations are very well thought out and make total sense to me. Picture of rock formation is natural and has obviously been enhanced. I would guess this SARA is about 60% in phase and you are very close to the viewing corridor, the correct position to be located on the trail, ridge or line of sight to best view the complete structure as the artist had intended.

One would also determine in which direction each individual is looking and what he or she may be looking at. You will find an eye catcher or another obvious marker or clue, it must be a hard marker made from a permanent rock, cliff, boulder or a rock that sticks out like a sore thumb or a marker made by man; a (permanent) steel rod driven into the ground, cemented re-bar an old piece or part belonging to some type of machinery, etc.

This clue will seem out of place and makes no sense as to why it was located near the area. The eye catcher will most likely appear when the SARA phase percentage is low. These folks would not allow two sun related clues to happen at the same time.

This is the reason why I am not worried about sharing the stone maps clues with everyone; the real clues are found in the areas where the SARA are located. The SARA tell you where to go and it takes many years to decipher the information that they impart.

Joe, you have done a darn good job and have figured out what this SARA is indicating and you are real close to solving this particular depository. You still have some work ahead of you to fine tune the location. Problem is we are not as young and spry as we use to be.

I had to post 21 location notices early this week in rough remote area and it has kicked my butt.

Next assignment; Grab a 1900 and the first issue of a 1902 Florence 1:125,000 map and find an obvious error between the two maps. I had mentioned this important line when answering one of Somehiker's post not to far back. Would one consider this a conspiracy theory?

I am gonna have fun with this one Y'all!

Later,

Ellie B

I do wish you the best of luck Blindwoman (is it?). Be careful and safe in the desert my friend as I pray that you do at least have common sense. At least there are no Apache braves to deal with, but watch out for the Ghost of the "Black Robe", he will always protect what is his.

 

[Oroblanco]

Ellie Baba wrote

I had to post 21 location notices early this week in rough remote area and it has kicked my butt.

Wow - that sounds like a major mineral discovery! Can you say in what location (without getting too specific, don't care to cause a lot of claim-jumping) or what state, without getting into trouble? I can empathize about getting whipped by seemingly simple things; an ordinary ladder kicks the crap out of me fairly regularly anymore.

Has no one examined the possibility that the stone maps may actually apply to a different area altogether? There are certain features on the map which would suggest looking elsewhere, and there is an area where the maps will "fit" quite well, and in Arizona at that, yet well out of the Superstitions. After all, the maps were found not IN the Superstitions at all, unless the story of their origin is un-true.
Roy

PS - Ellie Baba also wrote

I do wish you the best of luck Blindwoman (is it?).

His ID used to be Blindbowman, not blindwoman as far as I know.

 

[Springfield]

..... Problem is we are not as young and spry as we use to be.

I had to post 21 location notices early this week in rough remote area and it has kicked my butt.

Next assignment; Grab a 1900 and the first issue of a 1902 Florence 1:125,000 map and find an obvious error between the two maps. I had mentioned this important line when answering one of Somehiker's post not to far back. Would one consider this a conspiracy theory?
....
Ellie B

I feel your pain. Hoo boy. When I did that for a living, we had no gps (map, compass and hip chain instead) and had to lug four foot 4x4's for the corners. We were so happy when they dropped their requirement for 10' discovery holes at the location monument - those Punjars were heavy.

Conspiracy? Bigger than most people could even dream of.

 

[Blindbowman]

this is nothing new ,you play the game and make a lot of jokes and have your fun
is that what treasure hunting is all bout to you guys ...making fun of people with personal attacks , making fun of their hard work ,making fun of the time they have put into their search .. if that's the case , ..i feel sorry for the people that really enjoy treasure hunting like my self ..

good luck

 

[lotsofgoats]

this is nothing new ,you play the game and make a lot of jokes and have your fun
is that what treasure hunting is all bout to you guys ...making fun of people with personal attacks , making fun of their hard work ,making fun of the time they have put into their search .. if that's the case , ..i feel sorry for the people that really enjoy treasure hunting like my self ..

good luck

It's good to have a sense of humor... you want to be taken seriously but perhaps you are making it a bit too serious?

Good luck on the expedition.


Thanks Oroblanco