The Peralta Stones

[Ellie Baba]

Hi Group,

In the long run, it doesn't matter how, when and where the stone maps were made. The important information was transferred from the minds of the architects to the stone tablets. Think about a sheet of music and the many symbols that represent the notes, the key to play it in, treble cleft, bass cleft, pianissimo, crescendo, sharp, flat, etc. If it was written on an ancient piece of paper or paper that was produced in the 20th Century. What difference does it make?

Below you will find a selected portion of the Florence 1:125,000 Topo Map that depicts the area where the horse's head and neck can be located. Later, I will send the same selected area with the outline of the horse for those who do not have or cannot obtain a copy of said map. Topic # 2435 & 2436 contain the four (4) combined topo maps containing the same area where the horse's head is located. Not much enhancement on these four maps which makes it difficult to outline the horse's features.

The area where the horse's head is to be displayed has been enhanced (by the mapmaker) to make it easier to see the outline of the horse's head. I did not do this as the map you see depicted here is the same map that you can purchase. Once you have identified the Horse head outline on the map you will soon find that you will not need to outline it because you will be able to see the horse without the outline.

This is the same technique used to identify the SARA; the maps have been enhanced and the SARA too have been enhanced. The architects start with the natural and then enhance it to create the symbol or subject that they wanted to create.

More later,

EB

 

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[somehiker]

Yup,there's a horse out there...ain't topo maps wonderful.
Them Masonic Architects sure are a clever bunch.

Regards:SH.

 

[Cubfan64]

I wonder if any of the proponents of the "electric drill explanation" can show us what these so called "starter dimples" are?
Do they believe that this hole was made with an electric drill.Note the depth and shape of the bottom of the hole....flat with no centering mark or "dimple".
I shot a photo of this "thing" from the trail,and it is certainly unusual.I plan to have a much closer look next time.It's about ten feet in diameter and is at the bottom of a stepped rock face about 40 ft. above and 100 ft. to the left of the trail.

Regards:SH.

Wayne - If I understand you correctly, you're saying you found what you posted in the upper photo in the mountains somewhere on a larger 10' diameter stone face?

Is that part of what they call the "Master Map" found near Charlebois Spring (I think?) or is it something else?

Whatever it is, I would say it's a perfect match for that part of the Stone Map you posted below it.

 

[cactusjumper]

Wayne,

That is one ugly-assed hammerhead!

Take care,

Joe

 

[somehiker]

Hi Paul:
The upper photo is one that I shot of the Stone in April,at the museum.It illustrates the form and depth of the hole bored into the stone more clearly than the other published photos.The matching item in the field,by both location and appearance is extremely close to what is carved on the map.It is round and relatively shallow,perhaps walled up, with a shallow pocket also visible in the rockface above.Where it differs,though,is the flat slab of stone covering the center.In a way,it reminds me of a peep hole with a cover,something which I should have thought of at the time..Next time,I might see if the slab can be moved or swung to the side.

Regards:Wayne

 

[Cubfan64]

Ahh ok - I was confused Wayne, sorry

 

[gollum]

EB,

Where when and by whom the stones were made matters a WHOLE LOT! Especially if they were made by a drunk artist and a drunk cowboy in the 1930s. HAHAHA I don't think that is the explanation, but until something different is proven beyond doubt, it is just as good as hypothesis as anything else.

Best-Mike

 

[somehiker]

Wayne,

That is one ugly-assed hammerhead!

Take care,

Joe

Now,watch what you say bout my horse...he don't like being called ugly!!!
I'm just horsin around...you know that.

 

[Ellie Baba]

Somehiker,

Pretty close, remember that county line later. Your horse's base is part of solving the maps. Your horse ain't that ugly, cause I am not that great of an artist myself. Anyone come up with any definitions for "pedico"?

 

[Oroblanco]

Gollum wrote

Roy,

Like I told Shortstack on another thread RIF (Reading Is Fundamental)!

You keep blathering the same argument without understanding a word of what I wrote.

Please show me ONE QUOTE of mine where I said DAI were in error? JUST ONE?!? You can't because there isn't! ALL I HAVE SAID IS THAT NOBODY SHOULD TAKE ANY EXPERT OPINION WITHOUT KNOWING EXACTLY HOW THE EXPERTS ARRIVED AT THAT OPINION! JEESUS.

I WILL SAY IT AGAIN FOR THE UMPTEENTH TIME. MAYBE NOW IT WILL SINK IN (BUT SOMEHOW I DOUBT IT):

ALL I WANT TO KNOW IS HOW A HAND DRILL DIMPLE LOOKS DIFFERENT FROM AN ELECTRIC DRILL DIMPLE?

HOW DOES MACHINE SANDING LOOK DIFFERENT FROM MANUAL SANDING?

NEITHER YOU NOW BETH SEEM TO WANT TO KNOW OR CARE HOW DAI ARRIVED AT THEIR OPINIONS. YOU BOTH SEEM TO THINK THAT BECAUSE THEY ARE EXPERTS, THAT NO FURTHER QUESTIONS ARE NECESSARY. MAYBE THEY ARE WRONG, AND MAYBE THEY AREN'T. I JUST WANT TO UNDERSTAND HOW THEY ARRIVED AT THEIR CONCLUSIONS.

I WILL PUT IT IN TERMS I HOPE YOU WILL FINALLY UNDERSTAND. IF YOU AND BETH HAD BEEN OF THE SAME MIND WHEN READING FATHER POLZER'S WORKS, THEN NEITHER OF YOU WOULD HAVE QUESTIONED WHAT HE SAID, AND THEN DID THE RESEARCH THAT PROVED HIM WRONG! YOU WOULD HAVE JUST BLINDLY ACCEPTED WHAT HE WROTE BECAUSE HE WAS AN EXPERT.

Let's look at the difference between the two situations:

1. Father Polzer wrote that the Jesuits never had any mines or treasures. You both question that. You both do research that proves what he said was wrong. The ONLY reason you both found that what he said was wrong was because you both QUESTIONED what he wrote.

2. DAI experts claimed that the Stone Maps were fakes because they found this, that, and the other. You don't question a thing. You both blindly believe them because they are fakes because the experts said so. Can either of you tell the difference between hand drill dimples and electric drill dimples? Can either of you tell the difference between machine sanding and manual sanding of a sandstone surface (somehow I doubt it)?

So, what is the difference between the two situations? Polzer wrote something that you didn't agree with, so you questioned it. DAI wrote something that you agreed with, so you didn't feel the need to researchthe matter any further.

Wow - is there some particular reason why you put so much in ALL CAPITAL letters? You have made several (erroneous) assumptions here, and RIF is indeed fundamental. Where did I state that I am an expert in drill dimples? Can YOU tell the difference? I can't, and don't know, but would bet there are ways of telling the difference, as was posted, many of the hand-powered drills rotated in both directions rather than only one way while operating like most electric drills. If the engravings showed evidence that the bit had rotated both ways, that would indicate a more primitive type of drill was used (like a bow drill or a pump drill) but doesn't provide a date since you can make either one in a matter of minutes and use it.

I will point out a major difference between the Jesuit issue and this topic; there are experts who support Jesuit historical mining and accumulation of treasures, while with the Peralta stones we have experts who have given OPINIONs that they are modern frauds, and how many experts who claim they are the genuine article? I won't ask again, as you have blatantly ignored the request repeatedly it is apparent you are not going to respond.

You do not know how anyone else arrives at their own conclusions, other than your own. Oh and one more thing;

<Gollum also wrote>

Please show me ONE QUOTE of mine where I said DAI were in error?

Certainly, when you show me where I stated that you made such a statement. I don't know where you even got this. Are you now saying that DAI conclusions are correct?

As for your assumption about "blindly believing" well that little sarcasm could be tossed back couldn't it, though it is erroneous like several of your assumptions have been.

Have a pleasant evening.
Oroblanco

 

[gollum]

You know what Roy, if you haven't gotten what I posted yet after the umpteenth time, I am not going to do it again. You know I love you and Beth, but for whatever reason, you just NEVER seem to understand what I post (when you don't agree with it). We have had this exact same problem EVERY time you don't agree with a subject. You ignore or don't seem to get ANYTHING posted that you don't agree with.

I thought that it might have been something on my part that maybe I wasn't wording things correctly, but everyone I asked didn't seem to have ANY PROBLEM understanding what I said EXCEPT YOU. I used so many caps out of pure exasperation.

Like I said, I love you guys, but I am done. Nobody else (that I have asked) has a problem understanding EXACTLY what I have written. That says the problem is not at my end.

Best-Mike

 

[somehiker]

That ain't just any old horse,Ellie.Thats Bernice and Jack McGee's horse from the
May 1973, Frontier Times Magazine article about the Peralta Stone Maps.

Regards:SH

 

[gollum]

SH,

I am at work right now and can't check it out, but does more than just the head match the TOPO? See, you can't just pick a part of the horse. The entire horse has markings which means the entire horse is part of the map. If the whole horse don't fit, you must acquit....ah...um....well you know what I mean. HAHAHA

Mike

 

[somehiker]

Mike:

That could be a problem for Ellie.The horse is shown all in one piece and all on one stone.If he cannot be found on one topo likewise,and in one piece as well,how can you be sure that you are on the right track.Same goes for the priest,who should be found logically,on the reverse side of that same topo,with a trail that connects the two,but a topo has only one side.The trail maps pose similar questions.Why were two stones used when such a simple map could have been carved in one?Maybe that means that two topos were used for the trail as well....simple enough.It is also possible,and this should be obvious to those that believe in mathematical solutions to ancient questions,that the two map stones portray adjacent areas,above and below a certain line of latitude.

Regards:SH.

 

[Ellie Baba]

Somehiker,

At least I have known allies who do/did agree with me. I have known about the MC Gee horse interpretation long before Bob Brewer had written his book. I have both of the articles from Frontier Times. What I will show you in the next few days is what they did not know or even envision. Just stay tuned my friends. Throw away the Priest Map my friends, whoops! Watch out or you will throw the horse out along with it. A little secret; you do not need the Priest Map to find the treasure(s)! It (the priest map) was included to throw everyone off of the correct path.

Gollum,

Do you hear the fat lady singing? I ain't finished yet my friend; more to come.

I am amazed that no one yet has come up with a definition for "Pedico". What gives? No takers?

Later,

Ellie B

 

[Oroblanco]

Gollum wrote

You know what Roy, if you haven't gotten what I posted yet after the umpteenth time, I am not going to do it again. You know I love you and Beth, but for whatever reason, you just NEVER seem to understand what I post (when you don't agree with it). We have had this exact same problem EVERY time you don't agree with a subject. You ignore or don't seem to get ANYTHING posted that you don't agree with.

You are making another mistaken assumption; it is NOT that I don't understand or don't get, or ignore anything you post. I see this a lot, people automatically assume that when someone doesn't agree with them, it is a case of "not getting it" when that is not the issue.

Gollum also wrote

I thought that it might have been something on my part that maybe I wasn't wording things correctly, but everyone I asked didn't seem to have ANY PROBLEM understanding what I said EXCEPT YOU. I used so many caps out of pure exasperation.

Like I said, I love you guys, but I am done. Nobody else (that I have asked) has a problem understanding EXACTLY what I have written. That says the problem is not at my end.

If you still can't see it, I can't make it any more plain. Here it is, in simple terms;

Peralta stones; real or frauds -
Expert opinions in favor of the fraud conclusion, three experts from DAI plus father Polzer;
Expert opinions in favor of the genuine article conclusion -..........?

I don't know why you are making a lot of assumptions on what I (or Beth) think, or how either of us has arrived at conclusions (Beth for one has no conclusions yet) based on my asking to see an expert opinion that is in conflict with those of DAI & Polzer.

If you think it is frustrating at your end, rest assured it is equally (or more) so at this end - please don't read more into the post than is there, if you have some (any) expert opinion that supports the Peralta stone maps being genuine, I would like to see it; that would go some ways to then "attack" the published opinions of DAI & Polzer. Just because a treasure hunter has doubts, is not as strong a case as if there are experts to support that doubt.
Oroblanco

 

[somehiker]

Ellie:
I think that I will leave the definition of "pedico" for you,as well as the relationship of the word as it pertains to the inscription on the tomb of Pietro Riario.Hopefully you will also be able to shed some light(or shadow) on how the word is relevant to the Stone Maps as well.
Perhaps one of your allies can assist.

Regards:SH.

btw;I do save the pm's and e-mails I receive.

 

[Ellie Baba]

I understand.

Somehiker,

The word “Pedico” is found on the horse’s side and has commonly been identified as “Pedro”. This word is very difficult to make out primarily due to fact that the i and the c in “Pedico” were carved close together to form what looks like an “r”. The word is difficult to read on the horse map, however, the tracings (2) were made and the one that I saw clearly depicted the word “Pedico”. I do not have any documentation whatsoever as I had agreed initially not to take any photographs or produce any drawings of the original tracings. I can prove 100% that the word “Pedico” is in fact located on the horse’s side.

These tracings were produced prior to the stones being located by Tumlinson. The tracings also had a number of symbols that were removed from the stones before they were found by Tumlinson. Travis Marlow and Clarence Mitchell are one and the same man. Mitchell founded Moel.

If you have the complete McGee article you already know the horse’s situation. I was going to discuss the "pedico" situation prior to bringing up the horse's ass. Bear with me for a few posts.

Pedico defined; a) Latin: meaning to commit sodomy, b) Dutch, French and/or German: hoof,
c) Greek: belonging to a beloved child. Take a guess… who is this beloved child?
More drawings coming soon my friends,

Ellie Baba

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

HI Ellie: Pedico has many meaning, including drugs, and what you posted. It has to be used, taken in context to its wording / intention.

Don Jose d eLa Mancha el *Tropical Trampo*

 

[SANTA FE NEW MEXICAN]

In General - Pedico is actually Pedrico Pedrico is actually Saint Peter, Jesus' closest apostle. Apostle Peter initially showed great faith by walking on the water towards Jesus, but as he walked fear grasped him as he began to sink. Immediately Jesus reached out his hand and caught him, saying: "You of little faith, why did you doubt?" Here Jesus indicated that the temporary doubt in the power of Christ was the source of Peter's sinking.