The Peralta Stones

[mrs.oroblanco]

John,

I did not get it (it never said there was a new reply). You have my email right on here - or a pm if you wish. Thanks.

Beth

 

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[SANTA FE NEW MEXICAN]

John,

I did not get it (it never said there was a new reply). You have my email right on here - or a pm if you wish. Thanks.

Beth>>>>>"John,

I need a little of your help, if you can.

I don't know if you know it, but there are 3 hikers from Utah missing in the Supes.

They had a bunch of different maps in their vehicle - including some stuff from your "I found the LDM using Google Earth".

I'm hoping you can help with which way they would have hiked up to that area that you have marked - they want to fly a helicopter
over it tomorrow, if possible.

There seem to be a bunch of "newbies" around there, some talking about the coordinates, etc. Coordinates are one thing, how you
get your body up there from 3 different directions is quite another.

Any input would be very appreciated by the searchers. The trails leading up there is the most important, since these guys left with
no provisions, thinking they could do a "day-trip" every day.

Thanks,

Beth" No problem Beth let me give you my opinion. Best Regards John V. Kemm Also I would appreciate Jim Hatts and Cactus Joes Take As well as Mike Mcchesneys And anyone elses opinion for that matter. And thankyou beth for promptly bringing this to my attention.

 

[Infosponge]

Good evening Oroblanco,

"Can you show us a depiction of a priest with a pointed hat, like what we see on the Peralta stones? Thank you in advance;"

Hows this?



Sincerely,

Infosponge

 

[SANTA FE NEW MEXICAN]

This Is My Opinion Beth.....

 

[SANTA FE NEW MEXICAN]

""""Can you show us a depiction of a priest with a pointed hat,""""

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

I found it, John - don't know why it didn't tell me there was a new message. I've gone ahead and posted it for them, as they are going to go
fly tomorrow over some areas.

Beth


We return you now to your regular scheduled discussion...........................

 

[SANTA FE NEW MEXICAN]

I TRULY HOPE THEY FIND THOSE HIKERS BETH THANKS AGAIN!!!!!!!!

 

[SANTA FE NEW MEXICAN]

Patrick began preaching the Gospel throughout Ireland, converting many. He and his disciples preached and converted thousands and began building churches all over the country. Kings, their families, and entire kingdoms converted to Christianity when hearing Patrick's message.

 

[coazon de oro]

How about a witch with a cross on its robe? Homar

 

[somehiker]

Infosponge:

I kinda favour this one,partly because of the 1847 and the way that the diagonal scratches in the pedestal resemble the slanted outcrop of heartstone ....SH.

 

[somehiker]

Back when I thought that DeGrazia could have made the stones,I considered this a clue.
These Navaho sombreros may yet be a clue.Of a different kind.

Regards:SH.

 

[cactusjumper]

A few points......

Wayne,

I have never seen De Grazia paint a Jesuit with a pointed hat. They always had a rounded crown, flat brim, like this:

He always gave Mexicans a tall, somewhat, pointed hat.

Beth,

I have always agreed with the D.A. opinions and have written so many times.

Mike,

Hand held drills would usually be placed on the material before turning the bit. With and electric tool, you might have the drill bit spinning before it touched the material. More chances for it touching down off target.

Just my opinion.

Take care,

Joe

 

[somehiker]

A few points......

Wayne,

I have never seen De Grazia paint a Jesuit with a pointed hat. They always had a rounded crown, flat brim, like this:

He always gave Mexicans a tall, somewhat, pointed hat.

Beth,

I have always agreed with the D.A. opinions and have written so many times.

Mike,

Hand held drills would usually be placed on the material before turning the bit. With and electric tool, you might have the drill bit spinning before it touched the material. More chances for it touching down off target.

Just my opinion.

Take care,

Joe

Joe:
Exactly.One of several reasons to discount any DeGrazia connection to the creation of the stones.
I am merely trying to point out the mis-identification,by even the quoted experts,of the "hat" depicted on the head of the priest.

Regards:SH.

BTW: Could DG have believed that the Jesuits were in the Superstitions?

 

[Springfield]

I would hardly hang my hat on the Desert Archaeology 'analysis' concerning the creation of the Peralta stones. Like other 'expert' reports concerning the stones (FBI's comes to mind), it's a shoot-from-the-hip opinion based on a cursory analysis, clothed in the perceived integrity of their credentials. Nothing remarkable about that. Assuming that 'experts' are indeed expert is a shaky bet, especially when value judgements are offered as proof.

Having said this, I agree with their conclusions. I believe these stones were created no earlier than the 1930's, for reasons other than those cited, but at that time period nonetheless. I also believe Tumlinson was either a liar or a dupe regarding his association with the stones.

The stones speak for themselves. EB offers the latest interpretation of their meaning - something we all can consider for ourselves as he continues. Until there is more convincing evidence, even circumstantial, to the contrary, the possibility that this is a clever prank is still on the table, IMO.

 

[Infosponge]

Good morning,

As far as the imagery on the stones, it seems to be a matter of each persons perspective. Some see a witch, some see a priest, and some see a modern day cartoon. Here's another image for you, it is the image of a "Witcher" from the book titled "De Re Metallica" page 40.



Sincerely,

Infosponge

 

[Ellie Baba]

Hi to All,

I have a copy of "The Stones Will Speak" or something like that. The Stone Maps have a story to tell also, and Springfield is correct. The stone maps were produced with a myriad of symbols, signs and drawings (horse, priest, witch, misspelled Spanish words, etc.). So what?
We can all argue about how, why, where and when these stone maps were created and in the end it does not matter. What does matter is how a group of individuals related the information from their brains to a flat rock.

Put yourself in their shoes for a minute. The stone maps are the piano (what type and manufacture and age does not matter) can you read the music and play the melody? You must be able to avoid the "sharps and flats" if not identified with the "key" the piece is written in. Musicians will know what I am talking about, non- musicians will find that this information is over their head.

There is a method to the madness and as soon as I am able to create some digital data to present to the group you will begin to see what I am alluding to.

Can anyone define the word "pedico" as mentioned in the article below? Cocaine is not the correct answer.

RENAISSANCE IN ITALY
BY
JOHN ADDINGTON SYMONDS, M.A.

PART I.— THE AGE OF THE DESPOTS.
PART n.— THE REVIVAL OF LEARNING.
PART III.— THE FINE ARTS.


PAPAL FINANCE. 393

The Opinion which had been conceived of the Cardi-
nal of San Sisto during his two years of eminence
may be gathered from the following couplets of
an epigram placed, as Corio informs us, on his
tomb: —

Fur, scortum, leno, moechus, pedico, cynsdus,

£t scurra, et fidicen cedat ab Italic: .
Namque ilia Ausonii pestis scelerata senatOs,

Petrus, ad infemas est modo raptus aquas.

Ellie B

 

[gollum]

Gollum wrote

Roy,

Nice attempt to take up for the wife but, you are waaaaay off.

Maybe you should (and this is not meant as an insult) reread my post. I think I stated quite clearly that I do not dismiss the expert opinions. I only want to know WHY they arrived at those opinions. See, there is nothing specific in the article. How to tell the difference between an electric drill dimple and a hand drill dimple. How to tell the difference between machine sanding and manual sanding. That is all I want to know. If there is a good answer for those questions, I will be satisfied that they arrived at their opinions in good faith.

The biggest problem I have with the entire article is that it is quite obvious from reading it that they don't believe Tumlinson's Story. They make statements about how the stones SHOULD be weathered not taking into account that they were underground. A lot of inconsistencies in the article which cause me not to give it as much weight as I normally would.

Hmm Mike perhaps you ought to re-read my post; where did I say that "you dismiss the expert opinions"?

I would like to know why, if one set of historians is found to be in error (our Jesuits) you seem to think that by default, we ought to view the expert opinions on the Peralta stones must likewise be in error? This argument has been used by others who "believe in" the Peralta stones, and that logic is puzzling to me. Just because in one subject, we can show that a set of historians are in error (and in part likely due to the fact that they simply don't look for Jesuit mining activities as historians) doesn't mean that the experts who examined the Peralta stones must also be erroneous.

I would like to see an expert opinion opposing those of DAI. Jim had hinted that such opinion does exist, so I for one would like to see it.
Oroblanco

Roy,

Like I told Shortstack on another thread RIF (Reading Is Fundamental)!

You keep blathering the same argument without understanding a word of what I wrote.

Please show me ONE QUOTE of mine where I said DAI were in error? JUST ONE?!? You can't because there isn't! ALL I HAVE SAID IS THAT NOBODY SHOULD TAKE ANY EXPERT OPINION WITHOUT KNOWING EXACTLY HOW THE EXPERTS ARRIVED AT THAT OPINION! JEESUS.

I WILL SAY IT AGAIN FOR THE UMPTEENTH TIME. MAYBE NOW IT WILL SINK IN (BUT SOMEHOW I DOUBT IT):

ALL I WANT TO KNOW IS HOW A HAND DRILL DIMPLE LOOKS DIFFERENT FROM AN ELECTRIC DRILL DIMPLE?

HOW DOES MACHINE SANDING LOOK DIFFERENT FROM MANUAL SANDING?

NEITHER YOU NOW BETH SEEM TO WANT TO KNOW OR CARE HOW DAI ARRIVED AT THEIR OPINIONS. YOU BOTH SEEM TO THINK THAT BECAUSE THEY ARE EXPERTS, THAT NO FURTHER QUESTIONS ARE NECESSARY. MAYBE THEY ARE WRONG, AND MAYBE THEY AREN'T. I JUST WANT TO UNDERSTAND HOW THEY ARRIVED AT THEIR CONCLUSIONS.

I WILL PUT IT IN TERMS I HOPE YOU WILL FINALLY UNDERSTAND. IF YOU AND BETH HAD BEEN OF THE SAME MIND WHEN READING FATHER POLZER'S WORKS, THEN NEITHER OF YOU WOULD HAVE QUESTIONED WHAT HE SAID, AND THEN DID THE RESEARCH THAT PROVED HIM WRONG! YOU WOULD HAVE JUST BLINDLY ACCEPTED WHAT HE WROTE BECAUSE HE WAS AN EXPERT.

Let's look at the difference between the two situations:

1. Father Polzer wrote that the Jesuits never had any mines or treasures. You both question that. You both do research that proves what he said was wrong. The ONLY reason you both found that what he said was wrong was because you both QUESTIONED what he wrote.

2. DAI experts claimed that the Stone Maps were fakes because they found this, that, and the other. You don't question a thing. You both blindly believe them because they are fakes because the experts said so. Can either of you tell the difference between hand drill dimples and electric drill dimples? Can either of you tell the difference between machine sanding and manual sanding of a sandstone surface (somehow I doubt it)?

So, what is the difference between the two situations? Polzer wrote something that you didn't agree with, so you questioned it. DAI wrote something that you agreed with, so you didn't feel the need to researchthe matter any further.

Mike

 

[gollum]

A few points......

Wayne,

I have never seen De Grazia paint a Jesuit with a pointed hat. They always had a rounded crown, flat brim, like this:

He always gave Mexicans a tall, somewhat, pointed hat.

Beth,

I have always agreed with the D.A. opinions and have written so many times.

Mike,

Hand held drills would usually be placed on the material before turning the bit. With and electric tool, you might have the drill bit spinning before it touched the material. More chances for it touching down off target.

Just my opinion.

Take care,

Joe

Joe,

De Grazia never painted a horse that looks like the one on the stones either. All of his horses look like the ones in the posted picture.

Also, I have used electric drills for many years, and I don't know anyone that starts them spinning before they contact the surface to be drilled. If the surface is harder than soap, the drill bit will fly away from the intended spot to drill. The only time I have ever got the drill spinning before contacting the surface is in a drill press.

Best-Mike

 

[cactusjumper]

Mike,

I said it MIGHT be spinning before it touched the material. Since you seem very familiar with how a drill bit reacts when it gets started, you might want to consider the speed.....RPMs. That is a major cause for it's wandering.

Is it your opinion that De Grazia's style for carving in rock would be the same as his painting with a brush?

Take care,

Joe

 

[somehiker]

I wonder if any of the proponents of the "electric drill explanation" can show us what these so called "starter dimples" are?
Do they believe that this hole was made with an electric drill.Note the depth and shape of the bottom of the hole....flat with no centering mark or "dimple".
I shot a photo of this "thing" from the trail,and it is certainly unusual.I plan to have a much closer look next time.It's about ten feet in diameter and is at the bottom of a stepped rock face about 40 ft. above and 100 ft. to the left of the trail.

Regards:SH.