the lost Dutchman mine and the Tayopa mine have been found !

[the blindbowman]

quartz where ?

lol what am i looking for . quartz is common what is not common is quartz in ether end of the spectrum of quartz ... here at two samples takeing with in 100 yards of the site 5 the tunnle area . the frist is a clear almost pure quartz vane that runs unlike most up and down a hill in the same dirrection as the tunnle ...it runs about 80ft in length and abut 3- 4 inches wide . you can amost see threw this sample like glass ...or almost like raw diamond ...

secound is what i call crystall quartz or layerd quartz often mixed with other compounds as in milky or cream colorerd or rose quartz . in rare cases this can be seen in lay apone layers . often one layer being clear and the next being milky or on rock like in a geo stone

in this case the crystall are not only of milky quartz but alos in clear quartz crystall in the same sample . very uncommon !

i found vanes that run 2ft wide by hunders of ft long yet only these two vanes are importain to me and my research ...

 

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[the blindbowman]

now you may be thinking i can under stand the bottom sample but why the top pure quartz . . thats a easy question look at the dutchman's sample . it is pure white quartz , but the word is pure ! often pure quartz is related to a given area and can range from mass of a few types of quartz in the area but not mixed . being pure milky at one part of the area and pure crystall in another part of the area or vane .. thats why ...even to see quartz in this pure of a state makes me want to go back and recheck this site again and again ...not to menssion the fact it had trace amonts of pure black sands stuck to the back of the sample ...

 

[the blindbowman]

lol thats what i thaught when i frist saw that peice but i did find a few good peices of the milky quartz and yes lots of calcite ... i dont hold alot of value in the lower sample only that it is found in the area ...

as for quartz .jim floyd told us there was a large amont of it near Ely trail ...but i am not looking for quartz lol

 

[djui5]

Chalcedony is all over those mountains. I've found a ton of the stuff, pun intended. I've also found a tiny bit of white quartz, and one vein, but didn't want to get in trouble for mining, so I left the vein alone. It's in one of the most popular places in those mountains too. Wonder how many people have walked right by it without seeing it.

 

[Oroblanco]

Need quartz with gold in it, quartz alone is not that helpful. If finding bull quartz (quartz with no gold) were sufficient to prove having found the LDM, then I have found it many hundreds of times all over the western US and Canada.

A serious treasure hunter ought to learn some basic geology, it is very helpful in tracking down the motherlode. Sometimes it is not easy to tell chalcedony from quartz, so if you carry a pocket knife one quick and easy test you can do is to try to scratch your knife blade with the rock; if it is quartz it should be hard enough to leave a scratch on the blade, if it is chalcedony it will be too soft and not leave a scratch.

Another sad but true fact about geology is that while it is very common for one to find gold with black sands, finding black sands is no guarantee of finding gold - and certainly no guarantee that even if there is gold in black sand, that there is enough gold to make it a paying proposition to mine it.

Good luck and good hunting.

Oroblanco

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Hack, sniffe, cough,hackke, woe is me, 3ed day wth the grandmother of all flues.. Duh, everhard the vulgar term "Sugar Quartz"? This is quartz rthat was expelled, it cooled off quicklyand did not have enough time to form large crystals, nor in general allow minerals to be formed in side of it

Tropical tramp

 

[PBK]

Sometimes it is not easy to tell chalcedony from quartz, so if you carry a pocket knife one quick and easy test you can do is to try to scratch your knife blade with the rock; if it is quartz it should be hard enough to leave a scratch on the blade, if it is chalcedony it will be too soft and not leave a scratch.

That's interesting! I always thought that both quartz and chalcedony (a cryptocrystalline form of quartz) had a hardness of 7.0, as shown in charts such as this one:

http://www.orionsgemz.com/Mohs.html

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

HOLA Springfield: If you actually want a lost mine, I can put you to within 500 meters of 4. Frankly I have more than I can handle with the one that I have. The same goes for anyone else that wants to look and find a lost mine. they do exist.

Recently near Hermosillo there was another lost silver mine. Many had looked for it with no success. The other day a surveyor was surveying a ranch property in the vicinity. He was on top of a hill setting up his instrument to take sightings. the only suitable pace was a fairly level spot covered with low brush.. He directed his assistant to clear it off, then set up his tripod, but for some reason one leg disappeared into the ground, Investigation revealed a covered over ventilation shaft. By lowering a small miner into it the miner was able to work his way back to the main covered over portal. Then it was a simple manner to open it up from the outside. It is a very good mine with large reserves now being developed. I assume that the surveyor is no longer working as a surveyor?

Tropical Tramp;

 

[djui5]

HOLA Springfield: If you actually want a lost mine, I can put you to within 500 meters of 4. Frankly I have more than I can handle with the one that I have. The same goes for anyone else that wants to look and find a lost mine. they do exist.

Is it in AZ?

I assume that the surveyor is no longer working as a surveyor?

Tropical Tramp;

Well I sure would hope not Unless he really liked his job...haha.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Springfield

Want more confusion? Read The First Hundred Years of Nino Cochise, by Ciye 'Nino' Cochise and A. Kinney Griffith. It's the story of the 'Lost Apaches' who stayed in Mexico during the late 19th and early 20th centuries. Very interesting history. Not at all a lost mine book, Nino never mentions Adams, but he talks a lot about the Apache's gold mine named Sno-Ta-Hae.
*************

The Apache were in North western Mexico from the 1600's on. They controlled the sierras and almost destroyed the northern states. The prevalent idea that they were noble Redmen defending their territory against invaders was completely err ahh hmmmm. shall we kindly say a fabrication. The Sierras were the home of many other Indian tribes whom the Apache loved torturing & killing as well as any Spanish that was unlucky enough to fall into their hands still alive. It seems that torturing was a form of drawing out the spiritual energy of the victim and the longer it could be drawn out the more energy the Apache could receive. nice eh? I could tell you many tales of the Noble Apache and their activities down here which never was part of their territory, They always avoided a frontal confrontation , attacking mostly from ambush. contrary to our western movies.and stories, but that is another story.

You mentioned Sno-Ta-Hae, I believe that Oro also asked me about that. I had replied yes.. At the the head of the Tayopa canyon complex, my wife and I were up before sunrise to check for data and to take pictures. While I was scanning with the binoculars to check on points, my wife suddenly exclaimed " Look, that appears to be a gigantic skull. You can see the eyes, nose, and even the mouth". She was right, the mouth was a cave perhaps 6 ' high which ran back into the hill. Someone had built a small rock wall in front of the opening. Some of the rocks had fallen into the barranca below giving it the appearance of a snaggly toothed skull. The skull configuration could only be seen when the Sun first illuminated the cave, and only on a few days a year, The combination gave a Bias Relief effect.. Naturally my genius being at work, I had carefully planned this out heheheeehehe

I casually mentioned this to one of the people up at Cerochito and he became quite agitated and wanted to know where, for some reason my mind failed me and just went blank.

Later a Yaqui friend in Vicam was telling me stories of the Indians, he mentioned that an Apache captive prior to being tortured and killed had mentioned to his father that they would travel down the Rio Mayo to where the San Luis Barbarrocos barranca joins the Mayo. They would then travel up this barranca until they came to a small waterfall on their right, climb up and enter another barranca that ran generally north. They would keep up this barranca until it turned to the left. Up above was a cave in which they used to live. He said they left large stores of food and weapons there. In the back of the cave were many cowhide bags which they never bothered with since they were not interested.

This story dovetails nicely with my Tiger's Skull cave as to location and manner of entering it from the Rio Mayo. It also could fit a description of a man riding with The Apache of seeing an encampment below in a deep canyon and was told to never go there, that this was Tayopa./Sno-ta-hae.. The main overland trail does pass directly over head.hmmm

Incidentally this small waterfall is from the Arroyo Caudolosa where it exits from the Tayopa Barranca.which runs all year long with extremely good water. It is not the one the old Indian told me about to find his old home. The Apache waterfall is at the south end of the Tayopa Complex, while the other is at the north end.

I could pin point this quite accurately on the aerial photograph, but since thiis also going out to the WORLD, that will have to wait until I can investigate it first. ----- heheeh©

Tropical Tramp

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

=djui5 HOLA Springfield: If you actually want a lost mine, I can put you to within 500 meters of 4. Frankly I have more than I can handle with the one that I have. The same goes for anyone else that wants to look and find a lost mine. they do exist.

Is it in AZ?
****************
Sorry djui all are in Sonora, and Chihuahua, Mexico

Tropical Tramp;

 

[djui5]

I think I'll stay on this side of the border thank you very much

 

[arkhunter]

i will go....where i must go

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Safer down here than up there in AZ djui, sides this is where 4 are known very closely.. On las Pimas I can take you to the collapsed portal. YOU do the digging. Sand stone cemented together with silver according to the orig miners description. At times it had to be cut in pieces to remove it from the mine.

Tropical Tramp

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

=arkhunter i will go....where i must go
***********
Are you serious Arkhunter? the area is free and open for mineral filing.

Tropical Tramp

 

[djui5]

hooo

whoa...

pm coming.

 

[the blindbowman]

Realdetayopa . what evidence do you have that says your mine is the real tayopa ? lack of evidence is common in treasure hunting i can says this from frist hnad wisdom .. so what prof do you have . and not some old letters . real prof ...

i am not saying you have not found the tayopa . just want to see some kind of real prof ...the bells ..pictures of the treasure trove ...any prof ...?

my girlfriend has out right ask me not to go back to the superstitions again ....now it maybe a matter of what i am willing to give up to prove i am right ...

even to find any prof is in treasure hunting a land mark event ...i have posted less than about 30% of my findings so far ...

you spell tayopa the same way we do now why ? you stated it was spelled diffrently ...?

i just wonder...?


it may not even matter at this point ....

the reason i ask these questions is if you have found the tayopa the real tayopa you could easyly prove it . and the fact remains i have found a tunnle that fits the description of the real tayopa .....if it is not Tayopa than its a very big unknown mine that dose fit the peralta - ruth map . is it the real Lost Dutchman Mine ...? i can not say at this point in time ...... but it fits the peralta stones and the peralta ruth map . a unknown jesuit strong hold and mine ... i dont know yet .. i am not questioning your find only ,what prof you have that it is the tayopa ..
the size of what i have found is vast . this is not a little hand dug tunnle not unless you have over 100,000 little hands .and who builds a wagon at location that cant go any where other than a 1/8 of mile trail from point A to point B and can never leave the area its in ...we dont under stand everything we have found yet but we know what is there ...

could there be more than one mine of this type ....? i am haveing a hard time beleaveing that this mines loctation dose nt fit the tayopa legend yet the discription of what we are finding dose and dose not fit any other mines we have comein contact with so far ....

we know this is a vast tunnle and mine system it matches the peralta ruth map and stones . we know it is jesuit related and matches the tayopa treasure trove ...

and yet natches all the acounts of the LDM as well ...

we have enough evidence to prove where it is and what we beleave is there before we open it ..

i was confronted by a apache chiff that told me " hunting season is over !" thats why my girlfriend dose not want me to go back ...

they know i am to close to stop me ...

i have had some real bad times with magnetic fields in the area .. killing batteries for no reason in secounds . yet if i stand on the other side of a mt and the mt is between me and the tunnle i can take all the pictures i want as long as i keep the mt between me and it ...i took 140 picture on digtal and had 81 pictures when i got back to the truck ... i took 66 photos of 800 fs and got 23 photos . and it destoryed my camera . i am out $600 for that camera and i got 1/3 of the photos i wanted . on the other side of the mt the same thing happens . it blanks the picture off the memory chip in side the digtal camera . i have not found away around this yet ....i got some great photos and they have lots of evidence we are still going over yet i have a lot of work ahead and hope to find away around this ...

i dont know what you found ,,...

i dont know what i found ....

thats why i am asking ....

 

[Springfield]

Realde, just out of morbid curiosity - does the last name of the "Don" on the typewritten list you posted begin with an "F"?

 

[the blindbowman]

i got to ask these are copies of letters you got from where ? and from who ? the reason i ask . is they did not have type writen letters and they did not use are letter type or 3 binder note bookes ,,, so how old are these letters and where did you get them . you stated they cut blocks of silver . and that is true of the real tayopa mine yet nothing in those letters says its about the tayopa mine it self only refer to the mine not where it is ...?

and i got say ... for one the letter says the tayopa ,la gloria pan ,tepoca and two other mines near caborca ,, it dose not stated in fact that the tayopa is in caborca , that how some may translate its meaning but just not true fact ! . two other mine were close in that caborca area , it dose not stated the tayopa ,or the la gloria pan or the tepoca mines were even near that area ,,, and thats just what i am talking about ... just because it talks about these legendary mines at the same time dose not mean they are part of that area at all ,...fact ...

you could read that into the statedments but it would not make it true, dose it ?

i still beleave what i am working on is the tayopa mine ,,,.....

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

[the blindbowman ]
Realdetayopa . what evidence do you have that says your mine is the real tayopa ? so far ...

you spell tayopa the same way we do now why ? you stated it was spelled differently ...?
*************
I have always spelled it this way?? Go check my posts in "The Tayopa Legend" for my debate with capt Bill on this.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

i just wonder...?
**********
I agree with you completely, but as I have said it is an ongoing project so naturally I have to withhold certain specific details, so if you wish, put it down to a nice story for the time being. However there is a large amount of convincing proof in that lead "The Tayopa Legend".
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

the reason i ask these questions is if you have found the tayopa the real tayopa you could easyly prove it
***********
I can, come on down. if you have a few weeks and the capital to support yourself. Or altnatively wait until the Mexican govt finally cuts loose with the permits. Until then, only I know of the actual location of the two principal workings. the others are typical rabbit hole mines of those days. While these produced tremendous amounts of metal, they are downright scary to mostly crawl and work in, not for the faint hearted like me.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

the size of what i have found is vast . this is not a little hand dug tunnle not unless you have over 100,000 little hands .and who builds a wagon at location that cant go any where other than a 1/8 of mile trail from point A to point B and can never leave the area its in ...we dont under stand everything we have found yet but we know what is there ...
******************

Remember in the days of Tayopa they were at the extreme end of any possible supplies. They had few iron tools or powder to spare for mining, so they resorted to rock tools, heating the face of the workings with fire then throwing cold water on it to shatter or fracture the rock which was then pried or hammered off. Under these conditions You do no more excavations than was necessary for your slave labor to work with no consideration for safety or comfort. So if you have extensive workings it has to be from a much later period, or possibly a volcanic caused anomaly. Only you can work that out.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

we know this is a vast tunnle and mine system it matches the peralta ruth map and stones . we know it is jesuit related and matches the tayopa treasure trove ...and yet natches all the acounts of the LDM as well ...
**********
?? I understood that the LDM was a small one man workings? If IT was Tayopa, then it would far far outpass his remark of making Sm men millionaires.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
they know i am to close to stop me ...
***********
In which case they know how stupid it would be in these days to do anything since all killings or unexplained disappearances in a National preserve now have to be brought to a successful investigation. But I am a bit curious, with all of these hunters, tourists, and officials prowling around in there, why aren't they afraid that one of them might stumble into something?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

i have had some real bad times with magnetic fields in the area .. killing batteries for no reason in secounds . yet if i stand on the other side of a mt and the mt is between me and the tunnle i can take all the pictures i want as long as i keep the mt between me and it ...i took 140 picture on digtal and had 81 pictures when i got back to the truck ... i took 66 photos of 800 fs and got 23 photos . and it destoryed my camera . i am out $600 for that camera and i got 1/3 of the photos i wanted . on the other side of the mt the same thing happens . it blanks the picture off the memory chip in side the digtal camera . i have not found away around this yet .
**************
Simply provide a bypass path, cover your camera with aluminum foil except for the controls, viewing port, and the lens.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~...i got some great photos and they have lots of evidence we are still going over yet i have a lot of work ahead and hope to find away around this ...
*************

Keep pitching, only way.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

i dont know what you found ,,...
*************
Hehehe curious but I share the same feelings on your tunnel system, but wish you success.

Hey my friend if one never asks or questions one never learns, this is why some question both of us

I am enclosing a Spanish writer's impressions of mining and slave labor during those days from Adrain Westwoods "Jesuit Gold".

Tropical Tramp