the lost Dutchman mine and the Tayopa mine have been found !

[djui5]

I gotta camera

 

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[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

GO GO GO Djui, the slovenly haphazzard mixer.(bartender)? BUT COME BACK!

"Tayopa", the same as in the logo. Bowman

Tropical Tramp

 

[the blindbowman]

we can use all the photos we can get . i got a older kodak 2.0 mega pixels but two sd 1gb cards and full auto ...its a nice relieable and well taken care of camera...and i have a good back up . i take it you would like to join the team Djui5... we need 8 more . what i hope to do is split in to 3 groups . one to the left wing and one to the right wing point the main group in the center and let the other two groups go wide and work back to the main group .this the only way to cover a area with a high level of coverage with a few good men or women . and dont knock it women are great perfectionest as far as the ones i have known ...and they do bring a diffrent perspective to group ..

i used to go with my father and check out old mines and old digings and rock hounding . we do have lon and lat's for the 3 sites and as i stated this is not going to be lets check this canyon for the next 4 miles lol . its more like here is where the sites is, let go out 200 ft and suround the area wide and focus back togather on the site . covering maybe as much as 300-400 ft long and a given wall face and we have good detail to help us locate the house in the cave first , the reason i want to cover the area again is when i saw the pile of old house stone it looked out of place some what and i beleave there is more than one house in that area ...and we want to check between the house and a near by water sorce ...

what will happen is we could meet at the last paved road near 60 and than group up and head to the trail head . than i will tell wish trail we are takeing we we get to the right spot i will stop everyone and we can rest and i will explan the the over lay and why and what we are hunting for and each wing man will take note of his area to cover and make sure he is able to read compass and directions on the maps .. we are not trying to recover any ore at this point in time we are trying to recover photos of each sites and any signs of man made structures for the first site , i will also state this site was said to have a treasure vault and if we can see signs of it we could inspect it closer ...photo coverage of the site . i know it will be hard to not jump in and start uncovering these sites but we must keep our heads , this can mean the permits or not and you get nothing if we dont get the permits . and i do under stand ,and as i stated if we find placer or gold ore i will not be checking everyones pack back lol if i do get my permits and i recover a large weath , i well share with the members of this group . . the amont of these treasures are far more than most could spend in there life time ...

i dont want no crazy shit out there this is still a rough area and i dont want anyone getting hert or lost just before xmas ...

so lets figer out if we can get this hunt team togather before jumping the gun ! we got to find, before we can photo ...

 

[the blindbowman]

GO GO GO Djui, the slovenly haphazzard mixer.(bartender)? BUT COME BACK!

"Tayopa", the same as in the logo. Bowman

Tropical Tramp

yes ( Tayopa ) and what Djui5 dose for a liveing has nothing to do with his skill level IMHO . we do not need confussion in the group just a will to carrie out the task at hand .. if you want to know more realde tayopa join the group , i may even split half of anything recoverd by the permits with this group , as i stated i dont value money like most people . and if i am right there is more than enough to make the group members very happy ,as well as being a great chance to really help recover these sites . if we do in fact name this team you may end up in print before this done ... only one way to find out ...


we may not find what we want but as i stated we are looking for 3 sites to focus on !

the start date would be somewhere around decmeber 7th or the 8th ...

 

[djui5]

RT was playing

I have a camcorder I'd like to bring to document the whole expedition. Just let me know where to be and when. I can read a compass and map of course, and am very good at following topo maps to the terrain.

 

[the blindbowman]

i hear ya ..

 

[Oroblanco]

Greetings,
I have a suggestion I would like to propose - if your weight (backpack) will allow of course, consider bringing along a regular, film-type (35mm) camera? Electronix and digitals are wonderful gizmos - when they work! I have had the worst luck with electronic cameras and other gadgets (sorry to the digital camera fans, just personal experience) as they seem to pick the very worst times to fail on you and you are then miles from any way of getting them fixed. Film cameras can fail too but are a bit more reliable, in my experience. Even one of the disposable-type cameras would not weigh much and would be a sort of "backup" photo ability in case the electronix fail.

I also have a question for you Blindbowman - (quote we need 8 more . what i hope to do is split in to 3 groups end quote) any particular reason why that number for your party? I have never gone prospecting with a group that large, seems it would prove to be a source of problems/conflicts that would be un-necessary especially when you are at this point only locating the troves/mines and documenting them for the sake of obtaining the necessary permits. Trying to keep a squad of folks from squabbling, griping or even from just quitting or worse, getting hurt or lost - might be quite a job. Have you taken a group this large out before into wilderness? I have taken out as many as seven (hunting) and it can be quite a chore just keeping the peace in your own party. A large group can be a lot of fun, too, so long as folks can keep a good sense of humor and the leader of the group keeps the physical limitations of his people in mind.

Good luck and good hunting to you!

Oroblanco

 

[Oroblanco]

I have to chime in here too - someone is trying to make enemies for Mike (Gollum) with false accusations. If Mike truly had a problem with you or anyone he would tell you directly and openly not working in secret, not his style - and I have raised his ire on an occasion or two so know that he would be open and direct with you if he really had a problem with you. If I were you, I would strongly suspect the person who sent that message of a rather low trick, trying to make you enemies with Gollum for his/her own reasons.

Oroblanco

 

[gollum]

HA! I guess I missed that one!

Good call Randy.

Mike

 

[Siegfried Schlagrule]

Finding a spanish mine is not really that profitable. Many folks have found them and gone broke. What made a fortune 400 years ago with unpaid slave labor most likely will not show a profit in modern times.

Actually, quite to the contrary my friend. You see, in the "old days" it required quite an expedition to open a mine shaft. They normally didn't do any mining unless it was what we call "bonanza ore", etc today. Many of the most profitable mines in history were either found originally by Indians or Spanish. There have been a few found by prospectors/etc, but most of the big ones were being worked before.
It was not profitable for them to work a mine unless it proved to be immensely rich. These days we can extract gold down to 100th's of an ounce. There is no way they could have done this 100-200 years ago. They used "crude" methods of mining that were not very efficient.
Did you know only 10% of the ore body was taken out of the Silver King? 90% of the silver is still in there!

The point is that then as now there are a hundred poor mines to one rich mine. The words spanish mine doesn't indicate that it was a legendary mine. The spaniards themselves would jump from mine to mine when the ore petered out or they found a richer mine. The number of people who have found a spanish mine and done well is easily dwarfed by those who have found a spanish mine and gone broke. I estimate that from discovery to production you are facing thousands and thousands of dollars of costs before you make a penny. Try selling any mine without proper core samples which don't come cheap and see how little it will bring. I believe there are a number of found mines for sale on this site with no takers. Now if you found the tailings pile of one of these legendary mines you might make enough money to actually pay to open the mine. Saying that the spaniards only worked rich mines is a stretch. Maybe the large expeditions went out hoping to find rich mines but continually looking for better mines. I know that a number of expeditions were one shot deals which indicates that what they found was not rich enough to pay for a followup. I'm guessing the miners also did some looking on their own when they weren't working. exanimo, siegfried schlagrule

 

[gollum]

That's not necessarily true SS,

If there wasn't an easy to get to rich vein, there would not be a Spanish Mine. You might find some small coyote holes, where someone chased out a small quartz vein, but the ONLY reason for digging a mine was if there was a rich vein of either gold or silver.

Here is what I mean by coyote holes:

The number of people who have found an actual Spanish Mine is easily dwarfed by the number of people who THINK they have found a Spanish Mine. How many people can tell the difference between a mine worked in 1800 versus a mine worked in 1850 (there would be differences, but not necessarily in the mine itself)?

Another thing you must keep in mind is that there is a BIG difference between finding a mineshaft, and finding a sealed mineshaft. If someone went to the trouble of sealing a mineshaft, that only means one thing! There is something inside worth hiding. I know of a few sealed Spanish Mines that have been opened up, and EVERY ONE of them was a payday. The more elaborate and work intensive the task of sealing a mine was, the more valuable the contents.

Best,

Mike

 

[Oroblanco]

Hello friends,

Gollum wrote:
If someone went to the trouble of sealing a mineshaft, that only means one thing!

I would like to point out one exception to this rule - I agree any old (over 100 years) mine that is sealed was done to protect the remaining ore, with modern mines we do see some that are sealed up to keep kids and curious people from going in and getting hurt or killed. If you see a shaft or tunnel closed up with huge layers of concrete and iron bars it might be a modern one that is truly played out but dangerous to enter, hence the concrete.
Oroblanco

 

[gollum]

Oro and I are in agreement here.

If a shaft is sealed with modern things (like rebar and cement) stay out. If it is sealed with boulders and caliche, go, but be careful!

Mike

 

[the blindbowman]

thanks for the heads up on the 35 mm camera Oro i do have a older K1000 pentex with w 135mm lense that takes nice pictures old but in good condition ...know real reason why i stated 10 people but i often like to have 3 people teams , that way they fight as much between them and are more likely to work openly as a small group ...

 

[gollum]

As far as Cameras go, I MOSTLY carry digital. I have my old Nikon N90s as a distant backup. My main camera is a Pentax ist DS (Digital), with a Nikon Coolpix 5200 (for my pocket). I can take about 400 RAW format (NO compression), or 1000 Hi-Res .jpeg pics on a 1GB SD Card that is the size of a postage stamp (I carry four). I have never had a problem with it, and because it is an SLR, I have all the lenses I want. An added plus is with digital, I only print the piccs I want, and everything gets saved on the hard drive. You can't beat digital. Plus, if I drag a laptop out there, I can look at my pics on site.

The only time I would take a film camera, is if I was going to be in the wilderness for a long time.

Best,

Mike

 

[gollum]

Hey B,

That used to be the case, but with the high resolutions on digicams nowdays, and GOOD photo editing software, I can do about anything a film camera can. It mostly depends on how much compression you use when you set up your camera (I don't use any). If I wanted to go crazy, I would get on of the new 16MP SLR Digis, but so far, I haven't found the need for anything more than I have.

OH! That reminds me. I still have to send you something. I totally spaced. Sorry about that!

Best,

Mike

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

sheehs plutocrats, me and my poor old 35 mm Asahi Pentax SLR with an old slow F2, 55mm lens and a 135 mm for portrates or close ups with my homemade adapter, sigh Of course I also have an old Polaroid for handout snapshots of families in the sierras, excellent ice breaker..

Jealous Tropical Tramp

 

[the blindbowman]

ya the k1000 is a good alround camera . i like the 800 its a good alround film ..its been packed away for some time and by the looks of the weather , we wont get a brake soon ...

 

[Oroblanco]

HOLA Tropical Tramp - I too have one camera that I still use, an old Canon T-50. It is not all-manual nor all-automatic, and only failed me once (actually rusted up inside, don't ask how that happened! ) but I have had the digitals fail repeatedly and you know with photos many times you cannot get the shot over again, especially with wildlife. From experience, the digitals will not hold up to the abuse like the old film cameras will. If you are bringing digitals, treat them like you were packing a dozen eggs or you will be sorry!

A side note here but many magazines still only want film-type photos (transparencies for color and 5 x 7 glossies for black and white) though some will accept digitals now. If you are ever taking photos to go with an article, be sure to check with the publisher before you start snapping the shutter.
Oroblanco

 

[packerbacker]

If the mine has, in fact, been located, why are we just discussing cameras? BTW, it's easier to get 9 mules going in the same direction than 9 people. The mules have an old saying; "Stubborn as a human".