The Land of Ophir and the Ancients Ones....

[okey dokey]

Thanks again and when I get some pics I'll post them.

Okey dokey

 

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[rangler]

Thanks Okey
Always appreciate a 'nugget' of information when I can find it!
rangler

​

From Wikipedia,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heavener_Runestone
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Heavener Runestone
Heavener runestone with the runes copied above.
Name Heavener Runestone
Country United States
Region Poteau Mountain
City/Village Heavener, Oklahoma
Text - Native
Elder Futhark
Text - English
Other resources
Runestones - Runic alphabet
Runology - Runestone styles
v

The Heavener Runestone is a runestone found in Heavener, Oklahoma. The stone is located on Poteau Mountain just outside the town's limits. There is much speculation as to the origin and meaning of the ancient stone's runic carvings, and there is such an attraction that a state park has been erected around the mysterious rock. In addition to the stone itself, the park offers Ouachita hiking trails, playground equipment and a spectacular outlook over the Poteau River Valley.

 

[Oroblanco]

Greetings Rangler (and everyone),

First my apologies for the delay in responding, my work often requires that I can not get home, and there is no internet service there. Hopefully soon I will have more time at home, and thus more time to indulge online.

Rangler wrote

Oro
with this statement...

The Knights Templar were formed in about 1129; Pope Clement V disbanded the Order in 1312.

I hope you do not think that this is the coup you needed to win this debate
consider...the fact just because the Pope disbanded or 'unsanctioned' them that they all just disappeared
off the face of the earth? That the lineage and history came to an abrupt halt - just because the guy
with the tall hat waved his hand while standing on the balcony?

The King of France was still making BBQ out of these guys, their assets stolen, their names besmirched
The Templar reconnoitered in Scotland, one generation later Sinclair was born. The fire of passion for
their lifes work and for 20 generations work was not simply laid down and abandoned with a piece of paper with a mans name scrawled on it! No No No - no no no NO!

Coup? No amigo, not a coup a MAJOR timeline problem with this whole theory. You mentioned a "lineage" of Templars - well the Templars swore a life of chastity - they had no descendants and the "lineage" died out with them. The majority of Templars who survived their persecution were inducted into the Order of Hospitallers, some older men were simply retired.

Rangler also wrote

They were merging with the Mason and the Scottish Rite Temples , insuring that the legacy of the Knights Templars would never die.They wanted a new start and a New Land, a New Scotland ( Nova Scotia) that name alone should be enough to tip the scales for most rational persons. Add that to the body of evidence that I have posted above and a Logical conclusion is fairly easy for all but the most stubborn of men.

Do you have some proof that Templars merged with Masons/Scottish Rite Temples? Surely you are aware that "Nova Scotia" was NOT named Nova Scotia at first, it was named Acadia, later changed to Nova Scotia in the 1700s or quite some time AFTER the Templars, Henry Sinclair etc.

Rangler also wrote

I see your running out of ammo Roy, if you look in your debating kit, you'll find a white cloth..if you take it out and wave it - we all will understand and the pressure will be off. Then we will welcome you back in to the fold.. and go have a beer or two....hehehe
I gently rest my case and thank you in advance for your polite concession of this point!

I see that you apparently mis-understood it when I said I was not addressing every single point, assuming that I have "run out of ammo" when in fact time limits my responses so I thought I would skip to a major problem, the time line. If time allowed I would gladly address each and every point, which would not likely change your opinions. I think you have a fascinating theory, which would far more than fill a single chapter of any book but would FILL a book and make for a best seller. I suggest that you write it up and send out a few queries (sample chapters) to some publishers, this could set you up financially and thus allow you to pursue that treasure!

Good luck and good hunting Rangler and everyone, I hope you all find the treasures that you seek.
Oroblanco

 

[rangler]

Oro Roy,
Nice to see you back, I understand competely, No I wasnt trying to take advantage of your absense
in fact further research was posted about the Philippines being Ophir!

however..you said.
Coup? No amigo, not a coup a MAJOR timeline problem with this whole theory. You mentioned a "lineage" of Templars - well the Templars swore a life of chastity - they had no descendants and the "lineage" died out with them. The majority of Templars who survived their persecution were inducted into the Order of Hospitallers, some older men were simply retired.

​

Consider that the Chastity was merely an item in a early 'press release' as how could the Templars exist for 200 years
if that was the case..so it doesnt seem logical in any case, if they didnt propigate future little templars, and they relied on recruitment, then what ever it was that propelled them that many years, KEPT on propelling them farther down the trail.

Yes I dont understand the name Arcadia, but I think it was Code Words for Nova Scotia... only later are we able
to put one with the other and in the proper order, only with the value of hindsight!

I see that you apparently mis-understood it when I said I was not addressing every single point, assuming that I have "run out of ammo" when in fact time limits my responses so I thought I would skip to a major problem, the time line. If time allowed I would gladly address each and every point, which would not likely change your opinions. I think you have a fascinating theory, which would far more than fill a single chapter of any book but would FILL a book and make for a best seller. I suggest that you write it up and send out a few queries (sample chapters) to some publishers, this could set you up financially and thus allow you to pursue that treasure!


You are correct Roy, I did not know time was of a constraint - you have a reprieve if you want or need it.
As far as a book, well only if you co - authored it with me. HA!
best regards
rangler

 

[Oroblanco]

HOLA amigo Rangler (and everyone),
Rangler wrote

Consider that the Chastity was merely an item in a early 'press release' as how could the Templars exist for 200 years
if that was the case..so it doesnt seem logical in any case, if they didnt propigate future little templars, and they relied on recruitment, then what ever it was that propelled them that many years, KEPT on propelling them farther down the trail.

I believe nearly all Templars were recruited, largely from the nobility (especially the "second sons" who could inherit nothing) so they had a ready supply of fresh recruits so long as Salic law was being followed. How could they secretly keep on recruiting? thank you in advance, (and thank you for the consideration viz time problems)
your friend,
Roy ~ Oroblanco

PS It is readily obvious you have no need of any co-authors! (Good writing amigo)

 

[desertmoons]

Just for you rangler....

Found in panuco (mexico i assume) around 1845.

 

[VICTORIO]

desertmoons You Wrote " Just for you Rangler ".

But I enjoyed it very much. Thanks for posting. Where is Panuco. It Is in Mexico but do you know what Part.

Rangler Mi amigo, Are you working on this.

 

[VICTORIO]

desertmoons, Would you give the name of the Book where that story came from. Only if its Public information.

 

[rangler]

Wow what an Image! Holy Moly!!
desert moons wrote....
Just for you rangler....

Gracis Mi Amiga!

Very nice of you to post that link and data, Amazing to read yet another
account of Templars in North America, and this one from 1845, in Mexico
no less!!
Thanks again for more fuel for my fire of the idea of Ophir and the Templars
being in North America!
rangler

​

 

[rangler]

TTH's and Argonauts
....A quick search for Cerro Chacuaco the area in the aforementioned link...

revealed to what amounts to a smoking gun for the Templars mining in the area
THE ruins are only a few leagues from the huge Gold and Silver
deposit, ....

http://www.marketwire.com/press-release/Cream-Minerals-Ltd-TSX-VENTURE-CMA-634202.html


Cerro Chacuaco is a zone of silicification, quartz stockwork and quartz veining with a known strike length of +900 m and an indicated width of 150 m to 250 m. Within this zone, old Spanish workings, Mina Nanche, Mina Cerro Chacuaco and Mina Perdida 1, 2, 3 define 3 quartz-breccia zones up to 20 m wide. During 2002, DDH 01, DDH 02 were drilled to test the north end of Cerro Chacuaco and in 2003, DDH 03, DDH 04 and DDH 05 tested the Mina Cerro Chacuaco. Diamond drilling intersected a multitude of quartz vein breccia zones, which should be tested at depth.

In 2006, a program of opening, cleaning and channel sampling of old Spanish workings was initiated. This work reconfirmed and located new zones of gold - silver mineralization, but also found that weathering, oxidation and leaching, evident in flooded shafts and adits, is removing silver values. Cerro Chacuaco Zone is sub-parallel to the Once Bocas and Dos Hornos gold-silver zones. All samples were submitted for fire assay in Reno,Nevada.

Looks like we have the Templars in Mexico, in the 11-1200's mining Gold and Silver, then for what ever reason abandoned, then later the Spanish ( 15-1700's) reopening these mines, and now in the 21st century a Canadian company doing extensive drilling and testing and reaffirming extensive gold and silver deposits!

Quite a provenance, albeit, a 1000 year time span! But physical evidence non the less..more weight on the scales, that the Templar's were precursors to the Jesuits..so I now also believe the Code book was wholly written by the Templars and decoded rock by rock, sign by sign by the ones who came after.
auriferiously
rangler

​

a unique and highly prized specimen of auriferious quartz (crystalline gold)

 

[VICTORIO]

Thanks SWR " Rambles by land and water By Benjamin Moore Norman, 1845 "

 

[rangler]

A picture is worth a 1000 words...........

​

auriferiously
rangler

 

[Old Dog]

Whitt459,

There is a button in your profile that removes those posts,
the thread regains continuity when you use it.

It can be undone by using profile options when you want.

 

[goldguru]

Whitt459,

There is a button in your profile that removes those posts,
the thread regains continuity when you use it.

It can be undone by using profile options when you want.

The IGNORE user (user You want to IGNORE) button you have the option to show reply..which you will only use twice & you will remember Why you clicked that button in the 1st place..

 

[Shortstack]

Many thanks for this thread, Rangler. I have just recently started researching this subject, and have found more questions than answers.

I am in agreement with Victorio, in that the feeling I get from these carvings is that they are about more than wealth. What, I don't know. I have posted pics on another thread of the "monuments" I have found...and when I am there, in the presence of these wondrous marvels, I am overcome with a sense of the vastness of time that seperates us from a truer knowledge. I know this sounds a little wacky, but that is the best I can describe it.

I don't have the slightest idea how they built these things. But I have seen evidence that at mining, they were the most proficient miners I have ever witnessed. (and mining is my gig, so I know what I'm talking about) No tailing piles, no debris. Precision cuts.
I don't know what technology they used, for any of it, but the fact their knowledge was way and beyond current methods is pretty obvious. So, I am in agreement that there must be something that has either been lost...or hidden.

I am anxious to see what you and others can share on this thread. Thanks again for a great (and timely, for me) topic.

Judy

When I first read Judy's post on the first page of this thread, the highlighted comments seemed familiar. Then a few days ago there was a program on either the Science or History Channel about Eric Von Danigan ( I know I've misspelled his name ). Anyway, there was one guy talking about the Nazca Plain and he pointed out that whole mountain tops have been shaved off to form flat areas covering many, many square miles, yet there were no tailings piles. He posited a great question. Where did all of that material go? Another statement was made that the Nazca Plains area contained every kind of mineral known to man and would be an excellent place for aliens (or Europeans or Middle easterners ) to find about anything their little ole hearts might desire.

I am NOT introducing aliens into this discussion. That is simply a comment made by one individual on that program. It DOES NOT take away from the question, Where did that material go?

This post may look out of place, but I'm re-reading this thread and saw that I'd missed this point. This was a very good point made by JudyH. The mining abilities of those folks were more advanced than what we have today. Too many people want to equate the biblical era folks with uneducated and backward even though they accomplished construction feats that cannot be duplicated today.

 

[Shortstack]

I want to take this opportunity to congratulate Oroblanco for the learned debate he is offering this thread. Sir, you have demonstrated how a different view can be presented and argued intelligently and without personal attacks and name calling. You and rangler's debating has made this thread far more interesting and informative. Kudos to you both.

 

[VICTORIO]

Shortstack Wrote " Sir, you have demonstrated how a different view can be presented and argued intelligently and without personal attacks and name calling. You and rangler's debating has made this thread far more interesting and informative. Kudos to you both. "

Yes Sir, I agree and that is what it is partially about. Professionalism is a part of it. In the process we all can learn from each other.

 

[rangler]

Yes Bill and Juan
Thank you both for the kind words but....

All Kudos go to Roy Oro Blanco! His gentlemanly attitude
brought out the best in the debate, and together we exposed lots
of good data, that was hidden before now.

This represents something to strive for in the debating style
that we all need to aspire to..and shall stand as a good example
of what professional cooperation can achieve.

Roy is a man well met, and I am happy to debate him at anytime
on any subject, as we both appreciated the data and not just the debate
itself!
Here is to Roy, a true treasure hunter!
rangler

 

[rigmover2307]

TTH's and Argonauts
http://www.marketwire.com/press-release/Cream-Minerals-Ltd-TSX-VENTURE-CMA-634202.html
Looks like we have the Templars in Mexico, in the 11-1200's mining Gold and Silver, then for what ever reason abandoned, then later the Spanish ( 15-1700's) reopening these mines, and now in the 21st century a Canadian company doing extensive drilling and testing and reaffirming extensive gold and silver deposits!
Quite a provenance, albeit, a 1000 year time span! But physical evidence non the less..more weight on the scales, that the Templar's were precursors to the Jesuits..so I now also believe the Code book was wholly written by the Templars and decoded rock by rock, sign by sign by the ones who came after.
auriferiously
rangler

I dont get it. all i see from that link is that this company did a bunch of assays and had an average of .664 grams per ton of gold, and an average 213.664 grams per ton of silver(approx 6 oz). in my opinion, not enough concntration to warrant a commercial mining venture.

im not being "difficult" i just dont see the relevance of a modern assay on a spanish occupation era mine to the possible presence of the templars hundreds of years earlier. What am i missing here?

 

[Springfield]

This is a press release from a penny-stock junior exploration company that has rights on marginally mineralized property and is trying to drum up interest from investors. The $60-80/ton ore is hardly enough to gain much attention - a trace of gold and a few ounces of silver per ton left on the walls of the scattered shallow workings. The original deposits were undoubtedly much higher grade but obviously played out quickly - there just wasn't enough mineralization to advance beyond 'gopher hole' status. You can find old workings like this by the thousands all over Mexico and the American west. These shoestring Canadian explorers (there are dozens of them) in Mexico frequently link their properties to 'Spanish workings' to gain attention from inexperienced investors.

Templar link? I agree with your assessment: "Huh?"