The Land of Ophir and the Ancients Ones....

[truckinbutch]

Overwhelming good post .
It is going to take me a while to digest all this .
Makes me feel good , however , that the thread is designed to be informational and NOT a running gun battle of different agendas .
Jim

 

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[VICTORIO]

Rangler Sir, Are there modern day Templars who still live by this Code.

 

[rangler]

Jim,
Thanks, I appreciate your kinds words very much, and take them to heart!
and yes it is nice to be able to concentrate on the subject at hand instead of
being distracted by that very agenda that you speak of....thanks to the powers
that be, and some sound reasoning somewhere in that chain of command.

Victorio,
Yes there are thousands of members of various sects of the Modern Knight Templar
one branch in Europe, for instance, is made of up ex-NATO officers and contains
over 5500 members
Here in the USA - as is - elsewhere all Templars are first Masons, then once certain
levels of progression in the Order are met, members can petition for membership
in the Knights Templar. Wow what a legacy huh?

​

http://www.knightstemplar.org/faq1.html
The Order of Knights Templar today exists as the top ranking Masonic organization in the York Rite of Freemasonry. The Order today requires membership in a Chapter of Royal Arch Masons and in some jurisdictions, membership in a Council of Royal and Select Masters.

The Knights Templar is a Christian-oriented fraternal organization based on the ancient organization that was founded in the 11th century. Today, the Knights Templar display their courage and goodwill in different ways than the ancient Templars. Members of the Order today organize fund-raising activities such as breakfasts, dinners, dances and flea markets for the support of Masonic-related youth groups, in addition to raising millions of dollars for charitable purposes.

The Templar Membership Today

Currently, Templar membership consists of people from all walks of life, including doctors, lawyers, clergy, businessmen and entertainment personalities, all of whom profess a belief in the Christian Religion.

This is just a tiny mention of the scope of the Knights Templar today, as I run accross more data I will report back with corrections and or additions to this post.
auriferiously
rangler

"To get the right answer, you have to ask the right question."........Socrates

 

[Oroblanco]

HOLA amigos,

Rangler wrote

NOTHING can be proven beyond absolute, if you are cynical or skeptical - and debates if this nature are soon denigrated as to what can be 'proven' - some want a nice clean 'white paper' with peer review accolades, footnotes, annotations, to make it real, to me that is just fluff from academia, perfect for those who don't live in the real world. For me that same white paper would be more beneficial as a kindling to start a fire, when I am out pounding the ground in some outback spot looking for chisel marks on stone. Perspective is perception.

Hmm then let me clarify - I do think that Sinclair did sail to America, most likely Nova Scotia, and returned. The king of England even used the (alleged) discovery to back his claims to lands in America. However the evidence to support Sinclair is thin to put it mildly. Even the stone tower cannot be proven to be his work. The Templar connection is very much as tenuous.

When we state that Phoenicians were in America, we can show various stone engravings and at least one shipwreck (off Bimini island, examined by a Yale professor who pronounced it Phoenician and dated it to 1200 BC) and a chair or table found in a Phoenician tomb was found to be made of Brazilian "pau" ('axe-breaker') wood. When we state that Carthaginians were in America we can show stone engravings, Punic coins found in 11 US states, two shipwrecks (one in Honduras, one in Brazil) along with ancient texts from Aristotle, Diodorus etc to support it - not to mention Punic coins found in the Canary islands and Azores, which would be logical stop points. With other claimants like Egyptians, Saint Brendan, Madog the Welsh prince, Celts we have much less evidence but still at least SOME bits to back the theory. With Romans the evidence seems to point to a purely accidental crossing, which likely did not return - even though at least one voyage was deliberate (in the time of Josephus, 1st century AD) they apparently only reached the Bahamas and did not find the continent. However with the Templars, I have never found any record of any Templar coins, inscriptions, etc that is undeniably Templar that has been found here in America.
It is one thing to know that the Americas existed - even in Plato (350 BC) we can find solid evidence that the ancients knew about the existence of the Americas, but to have such intimate knowledge of the interior of these vast continents is quite another thing.

Just my opinion but I suspect that any Egyptians, Celts, Scythians etc who arrived in America did so as passengers of Punic or Phoenician vessels. Phoenicians and Carthaginians habitually hired mercenary soldiers and sailors, and were on extremely good terms with Celts especially. As for Solomon's ships - his "navy" of ships of Tarshish was a total of 12 ships, which were piloted and largely manned by Phoenicians, so as wise as Solomon was we don't know that he had full knowledge of where Ophir was located. (Tarshish was in SW Spain)

Rangler also wrote

on the other hand the Templars wanted to hide everything. So we don't up to now have anything concrete that can be tied to them beyond 'possible'. Except that is for hundreds of thousands of Monuments and gold and silver mines all over North America and beyond.

Wow - hundreds of thousands of monuments, and gold and silver mines all over N America (and beyond)? How can we tie in any or all of these monuments and/or mines to the Templars? Thank you in advance,

One problem with having the Templars go to America where they have all kinds of monuments, mines etc is this - the Templars were being persecuted and erased by some of the kings of Europe along with the Vatican; why wouldn't they have simply emigrated en masse to America, since it was largely un-known to Europe, and there establish their own kingdom rather like the Teutons did in Prussia? Instead they seem to have settled in Portugal, Switzerland and/or Scotland. I only mention this because of a simile - Aristotle wrote that Carthage was keeping America a secret place, that they did attempt to found a colony there but it was later withdrawn by order of the (Carthaginian) Senate, and as Aristotle put it, the reason being that they wanted to keep the place as a sort of "refuge" for the state, in case some calamity should befall the home land the people would be able to re-locate there and be safe from any and all enemies. So likewise, wouldn't the Templars have had a similar option?

I don't have a problem with 'leaps of faith' but like to keep one foot on the ground; the Templars are a tantalizing possibility and I am NOT saying this idea is utterly wrong and impossible, far from it - it is quite possible. If only someone could find a single Templar coin in America, this part of the theory would have better legs in my opinion.

Got to hit the hay, thank you for your replies and I look forward to your answers.
your friend,
Oroblanco

 

[rangler]

Hola Tesoro Hombres

Thanks Roy Oro for your astute retort, appreciate your postiton , albeit the easier one to take
ie. easier to deny than to prove- non the less I shall soldier on....

Regarding your statement that , an artifact or coin from the Templar's would help and go a long way
to prove the point of the existence of the KT in America... consider this then my friend....What coins would
have been in their pocket? Would they not have been Phoenician coins Sir? Would it not make
sense, since I have not seen any evidence of actual Templar coins?

​

With regard to the Newport or Sinclair Tower I think one ASTOUNDING overlooked artifacts is the
Westford Knight effigy, located near the Tower..it stands in quiet dignity - memorializing Sir Gunn
and his demise at Prospect Hill in the 14th Century...consider this rather lengthy abstract, encluded
here in it's entirety because of its import and it's impact....

​

http://www.danicadhondt.com/newslet/06_1/newslet06_1H_templars.html

"For years I had read about the two-story, round, stone tower, with eight arches on the lower level, that was designed with a striking resemblance to the Church of the Holy Sepulchre in Orphir, [anyone else amazed by the appearance of this word PHI in what seems a linguistic connection to the word Ophir-brackets mine] Orkney, off the coast of Scotland, in books about little-known early voyages to North America.

The architecture of this structure had been identified as certainly that of Northern Europe in the Middle Ages, and some said the stonework was distinctly Scottish, as all of its measurements were based on the Scottish “Ell Stick,” a standard of measurement used in Ancient Scotland. The speculation was that this tower had been erected, possibly as an observatory (as the windows demonstrate astronomical alignments) but perhaps as a watchtower or lighthouse of sorts, by members of an expedition that had come to the east coast of Canada, and the northeastern coast of what is now the United States as far back as 1398 A.D.

The leader of the expedition is supposed to have been Prince Henry Sinclair of Scotland, Norway and Orkney. It was his family who are reputed to have given safe haven to the disbanded Knights Templar, when they arrived on the west coast of Scotland in the early fourteenth century. It was this same family, who, about 50 years after the time of Henry Sinclair, built the famous Rosslyn Chapel, in the little village of Roslin, just south of Edinburgh, and close to Rosslyn Castle, the family seat at the time.

The Sinclair who arranged for the chapel’s construction was Sir William Sinclair, who is also credited with having instituted Freemasonry, and having been its first Grand Master. Readers of The Da Vinci Code will remember Rosslyn chapel as one of Dan Brown’s choices for the possible resting place of the remains of Mary Magdalene, Brown’s “Holy Grail.”
Rosslyn Chapel has long attracted enthusiasts of unsolved mysteries with its carvings of plants such as maize and aloe cactus – plants native to the North American continent and supposedly unknown in Europe at the time of the chapel’s construction (although aloe plants are also indigenous to Africa).

Further evidence for the Sinclair voyage is the log book of the Zeno brothers, Venetian seafarers, who were hired to “take a certain northern prince” to lands far to the west in the northern Atlantic. Rough maps drawn by members of the Zeno voyage depict the coastline of Nova Scotia and New Brunswick, detailing such features as a “smoking hole” and a “spring of pitch” – natural geological features known today to exist in the area.

In fact Nova Scotia is home to the only open pitch deposit on the Atlantic coast of North America. Archaeologists in this part of eastern Canada have discovered the ruined foundations of stone buildings that could easily date from the fourteenth century and the oral history of the local Indians, the Micmacs, includes the visit of a light skinned man they named Glooscap, who interacted with their ancestors, taught them many new things, including how to fish with nets, and then left them by traveling southward, which would of course be in the direction of Massachusetts and Rhode Island. Today references to “Glooscap” are to be found throughout Nova Scotia (which, of course suspiciously means New Scotland) and the Micmacs still celebrate Glooscap in special festivals every year."

​

http://www.clangunn.us/knight.htm


The Westford Knight
The following information is taken from the brochure "The Remarkable Prince Henry Sinclair". The brochure itself is based on an article entitled Was Glooscap a Scot? reprinted as Yours Aye, August 1988, giving credit to Atlantic Insight of June 1983.
Born in Scotland in about 1345 A.D. Henry Sinclair became Earl of Rosslyn and the surrounding lands as well as Prince of Orkney, Duke of Oldenburg (Denmark), and Premier Earl of Norway. In 1398 he led an expedition to explore Nova Scotia and Massachusetts. This was 90 years before Columbus "discovered America"!

Prince Henry Sinclair was the subject of historian Frederick J. Pohl's Atlantic Crossings Before Columbus, which was published in 1961. Not all historians agreed with Pohl, but he made a highly convincing case that this blond, sea-going Scot, born at Rosslyn Castle near Edinburgh in 1345, not only wandered about mainland Nova Scotia in 1398, but also lived among the Micmacs long enough to be remembered through centuries as the man-god "Glooscap".

Henry Sinclair's ancestry was a mixture of Norman, French, Norwegian, and Scottish. The first Sinclair known in what is now the United Kingdom had arrived with William the Conqueror in 1066. Sinclair's grand-father, a friend of Robert the Bruce, King of Scotland, died fighting the Saracens in Spain in 1330. His father, Sir William Sinclair, also died in battle while fighting the Lithuanians from a base in Prussia in 1358. Henry was 13 at the time. He was trained in martial exercises with sword, spear, bow and arrow. He spoke Latin and French, and became a knight at the age of 21 years. His first wife, who died young, was the great-grand-daughter of King Magnus of Sweden and Norway. His second wife, Janet Holyburton of Direton Castle, bore him four children.

Sinclair was installed as the Earl of Orkney and Lord of Shetland when he was only 24, and held his appointment at the pleasure of King Hakon VI of Norway. As "jarl", he was next to royalty. He had authority to stamp coins, to make laws, remit crimes, wear a crown, and have a sword carried before him. He had already been rewarded by Kind David of Scotland for a successful raid into England, with the title of Lord Sinclair and the position of Lord Chief Justice of Scotland. Sinclair excelled in a furious time.

​

Sinclair happened to be in the Faeroe Islands, which were part of his earldom in 1390, when he heard that a ship had been wrecked and, since shipwrecks were fair game for pillage at the time, the local fishermen were attacking the crew. Sinclair rescued the mariners, and discovered they were Venetians. Their commander, Nicolo Zeno, was a brother of the most famous admiral of the time, Carlo Zeno. Sinclair hoped to dominate the northern seas, and promptly appointed Nicolo commander of his fleet. After Nicolo's death, Sinclair appointed another Zeno brother, Antonio, as fleet commander. Nicolo and Antonio used to write to Carlo "The Lion" in Venice, and this correspondence was published in 1558 by a great-great- great-grandson of Antonio. Historians call it the Zeno Narrative, and it is a basic source for Pohl's intriguing account.
This Zeno Narrative told about a survey to make a map of Greenland in about 1393; it was conducted by Nicolo Zeno, and later by Prince Henry's ships. This Zeno Map of the North proved to be the most accurate map in existence for the next 150 years!

Not only did the Zeno Map chart the sea with uncanny precision, it also showed certain landmarks. For example, it illustrated two cities in Estotilanda (Nova Scotia), possibly founded by Sinclair at Louisburg Harbor and St. Peter's. A castle or fortification was shown. There is speculation that Zeno based his map upon a much more ancient map, coming from the Templars in the Middle East, carried in secrecy by them for safekeeping in Rosslyn Castle, until Price Henry commissioned its update by Zeno.

The Zeno Narrative reported that as far back as 1371, four fishing boats (the fishermen were Sinclair's subjects) were blown so far out to sea that they eventually came ashore on land that was probably Newfoundland. They spent more than twenty years on the island, and apparently on the lands to the south, and then one of them made contact with some European fishermen and managed to return to the Faeroes. Sinclair decided to explore these new lands and set sail around April 1, 1398. His fleet consisted of 13 little vessels, two of them driven by oars. The Zeno Document suggests he tried to land at Newfoundland but was driven off by natives, and then sailed into Chedabucto Bay. It is believed he dropped anchor on the first of June in Guysborough Harbor.

Sinclair then sent 100 soldiers to explore the source of smoke they saw swirling above a distant hill. The soldiers reported back that the smoke was a natural thing proceeding from a great fire in the bottom of a hill, where a spring, from which issued a certain substance like pitch, ran into the sea. Thereabouts dwelt a great many people, half-wild, and living in caves. They were of small stature and very timid. Geographical detective work, archaeology, modern science and various documents have pinpointed the burning hill as the asphalt area at Stellarton, about 50 miles direct from the head of Guysborough Harbor.

The Scots liked the soil, the rivers, even the air, and wanted to establish a settlement. A portion of his party returned home, but he kept some men with him together with two oar-powered boats, which were good for exploring rivers and coasts. He took them through the Strait of Canso to meet the Indians at Pictou.

Apparently he persuaded the Micmacs to act as guides in his exploration. Sinclair may have travelled to Annapolis Basin and across the Micmac canoe route to Liverpool. By October, he was back on Green Hill, southwest of Pictou harbor, to attend a gathering of the Micmacs. " 'Twas the time for holding the great and yearly feast with dancing and merry games" His winter campsite was on the high promontory of Cap d'Or, overlooking Advocate Harbor. During the winter, the expedition built a ship and, when spring arrived, Sinclair sailed away from Nova Scotia.

They travelled southward, perhaps carried by a northeaster, to the New England Coast, just north of Boston. The party landed and spent the winter, living peacefully with the Indians. To the west they could see a hilltop from which the Indians frequently sent smoke signals. Accompanied by his 100 men, Henry marched inland to the summit of this hill, now called Prospect Hill, located in Westford, Massachusetts. It is 465 feet in altitude and afforded a good view in all directions.

While at this area, one of Prince Henry's loyal attendants by the name of Sir James Gunn, also from Scotland, died. In memory of the lost companion, the party carved a marker on the face of a stone ledge. It consisted of various sizes of punched holes, which depicted a Scottish knight, with a 39 inch long sword and shield bearing the Gunn Clan insignia. The punch-hole method of carving involved making a series of small impressions with a sharp tool, driven by a mallet. Where glacial scratches or rock colorations existed, they were incorporated into the man-made design.

Some holes were larger and deeper than others, probably due to the dulling of the carver's tool and centuries of weathering. In the words of Frederick Pohl, "the following are undeniably man-made workings: the pommel, handle, and guard of the sword; below the guard the break across the blade that is indicative of the death of the sword's owner; the crest above the pommel; a few holes at the sword's point; the punched-hole jess lines attached to the legs of the falcon; the bell-shaped hollows; the corner of the shield touching the pommel; the crescent on the shield; and the holes that form a decorative pattern on the pommel." Now weatherworn and faint, one can see just enough of the carving to visualize the rest of it.

Of course, there have been many investigations to verify the authenticity of this carving. There remains little doubt that this memorial is not a hoax, nor some Indian marking, but rather, the true monument created by Prince Henry Sinclair, nearly 600 years ago!

Well, if one really wants just ONE artifact to prove the existence of the Knights Templar in America, here it is beyond the Shadow of a Doubt, as it is Written in Stone! It not OUTSIDE the ability of the Knights and Sinclair, It is within the Time line of the area of concern, It is mute testamony of their precsence, I only am trying to bring voice to this Mute Knight and proclaim his Sacrifice as evidence of that the Presence of the Ancient Ones in America WERE the Knights Templar!
I rest my case on this point, you may cross examine Sir!
and I thank you in advance for your reply!
auriferiously
rangler


"Non nobis, Domine, no nobis, sed nomini tuo da floriam!
[/size]

​

Your Name grant glory, Not unto us, o Lord, not unto us,
but unto your name grant glory!
.....the Motto of the Knights Templar

 

[Oroblanco]

HOLA amigo Rangler (and everyone),

You have covered a LOT of interesting ground so this may be a long reply, I beg your indulgence.

Rangler wrote

appreciate your postiton , albeit the easier one to take
ie. easier to deny than to prove- non the less I shall soldier on....

Don’t mistake me for just another nay-saying skeptic of the type who demands to be shown huge stacks of gold bars, of the various claimants to have reached America in ancient times I am fairly convinced that nearly all did so – with the Templars I am not convinced, but keeping an open mind.

Rangler also wrote

Regarding your statement that , an artifact or coin from the Templar's would help and go a long way to prove the point of the existence of the KT in America... consider this then my friend....What coins would have been in their pocket? Would they not have been Phoenician coins Sir? Would it not make
sense, since I have not seen any evidence of actual Templar coins?

I probably should have said “Crusader” coins rather than Templar coins, but there are such things as Templar coins. Here is one up for sale on Ebay
http://cgi.ebay.com/Crusader-Coins-...temQQimsxZ20090430?IMSfp=TL090430125002r26107
The coins in common usage of the Templar period are collectively called “Crusader” coins. I doubt that any Phoenician coins would have been in circulation in their time as that would be a span of many hundreds of years – Byzantine would be more likely. Phoenician coins fell out of use during the Roman empire.

There was a Norse “penny” (actually a silver coin) found in a shell midden on the coast of Maine, dating to around 1000 AD, which COULD be possibly left there by a Templar but is more likely left by Norse explorers-colonists.

You mentioned the Westford Knight, which is another bit of evidence that COULD be Templar-related, but we don’t have a way to tie it in absolutely. Even the carved stone marking the grave of the Westford Knight – does it rest in the original place where the grave was located? We don’t know – we can’t even say if there was anyone ever buried in that spot.

I expected that you might propose the Aztec/Toltec god Quetzalcoatl as a Templar knight – after all Quetzalcoatl was a bearded white man, tall, who preached some quite Christian values and practices, wore a white gown with crosses on it, he had arrived in Mexico from across the sea (Atlantic) and left the same way. It is a tantalizing possibility except for the date – Quetzalcoatl appeared in Mexico some time before 500 AD (perhaps much earlier than this, if the Pyramid of the Sun is in fact built to commemorate him, the date would be BC) and the Templars had not yet been formed.

What about those many monuments and mines you mentioned earlier? Do you know of any that we could say absolutely, beyond doubt is Templar?

If Templars were indeed sailing to America and back, which route(s) would you propose they used? The south Atlantic route used by Columbus (and Carthaginians) or the north Atlantic route used by Norse (and Carthaginians, as described in Plutarch, Moralia XII, “On the Face of the Moon”) or another route entirely? How would you say they traveled inland to the various mines, by sailing up rivers? If so, then the obvious choices like the Mississippi ought to be the logical places for us to search for Templar monuments and markers. The Templars did in fact build many castles, churches etc in the Old World – yet the manpower was readily available to them there, as they had plenty of money and a large Christian population to do the work. In America they would have a huge pagan population, of alien language and cultural practices (like human sacrifice) which would seem to be very antithetical to Templars. How can we reconcile this?

One more question for you – if the Templars did know of America, had rich gold and silver mines there, why wouldn’t they at least inform the Pope of this? Remember the Pope is their “commander in chief” in the temporal world right? Thank you in advance,

The Templars are NOT my “area of expertise” so I cannot speak with authority about them – according to at least one source, they did not even own the ships they used but hired them, so any cross-Atlantic voyages could easily have become common knowledge it would seem. If Templars were voyaging to America, it makes sense that they would not inform the Christian kings of it, but why not the Vatican? If they had informed the Portuguese Henry the Navigator of America, why is it that the Portuguese failed to find America in their expeditions just prior to 1492? (They made several westward voyages out into the Atlantic in the 1480’s, checking out Columbus’ theories but found no lands.) There are parts of this story that do not make sense to me, but truth is often stranger than any fiction.

Thank you for your indulgence and your replies, I look forward to your reply.
Your friend,
Oroblanco

 

[Shortstack]

Was it the Aztecs or the Mayans who had the extensive libraries carved on wooden planks that the idiot Jesuits burned as heretical? This subject line now has me wondering just how much techno info might have been lost there.
Also, the library of Alexandra could be very interesting, too, if most or all of it hadn't been destroyed.

 

[Old Dog]

There is much that has over time been sacrificed as heretical,
that is why the locations of the actual photos here will never be made public.
Historians still have a tendency to hide or erase what doesn't agree with what they believe.

 

[pippinwhitepaws]

There is much that has over time been sacrificed as heretical,
that is why the locations of the actual photos here will never be made public.
Historians still have a tendency to hide or erase what doesn't agree with what they believe.

garbage in, garbage out.
historians study history...not speculation and gossip.

 

[Shortstack]

There is much that has over time been sacrificed as heretical,
that is why the locations of the actual photos here will never be made public.
Historians still have a tendency to hide or erase what doesn't agree with what they believe.

garbage in, garbage out.
historians study history...not speculation and gossip.

That is certainly a goodly amount of bovine flatulence. Historians have notoriously slanted their historical works toward their own beliefs and self-interests. Excellent examples are the writings covering the Indian Wars; Woodrow Wilson; Franklin D. Roosevelt; the Viet Nam War; just to name a few random subject areas. So called "Historians" have led people to believe Ho Che Mien was a life-long Communist America-hater when, in actuality, he was a very good friend of the USA during and right after World War 2. Until Harry Truman refused to back him at the League of Nations when he wanted Indochina to be free from French Colonialism. Yeah, RIGHT. Historian non-partisanship my.............FOOT!

 

[rangler]

Roy and Fellow Agronuats
I am going to take a little leeway with this response, inject some humor
if I can, to make some points it works better that way... , so bear with me.
and I mean to cause no angst and all is done in good will and fun!

Rangler wrote
Quote
appreciate your position , albeit the easier one to take
ie. easier to deny than to prove- non the less I shall soldier on....

Don’t mistake me for just another nay-saying skeptic of the type who demands to be shown huge stacks of gold bars, of the various claimants to have reached America in ancient times I am fairly convinced that nearly all did so – with the Templars I am not convinced, but keeping an open mind.

{I dont mistake you for just another naysayer., as is evidence by my laborious responses!-as I don't lift a finger to respond to the vacuous pseudo intellectuals who labor under the slavemaster called Doubt!}

Ok lets see....now "I am fairly convinced that all groups did so..so the Phoneicians reached these shores by being..say blown off track, the Egyptians hitched a ride, dropped a Viking coin, but the ONE group who had the man power, insight, intelegence, motivation and opportunity DIDNT reach these shores??
Time to play the Logic Card Roy...and step back a little and be Objective about this.Your on board with the premise but...
your down there in the hold of the ship,. crying. Land No!! Step up here on the Bridge son, in fact climb that damn main mast,
your find the Crows Nest.. , just git up there , open your eyes and take a gander that the shore line..THATs America dude
and your on a Templar Ship, check your watch, it's quarter past the 14th Century. While you up there-take the chance to be objective....and dont drink the Kool Aid,.

​

Rangler also wrote
Quote
Regarding your statement that , an artifact or coin from the Templar's would help and go a long way to prove the point of the existence of the KT in America... consider this then my friend....What coins would have been in their pocket? Would they not have been Phoenician coins Sir? Would it not make
sense, since I have not seen any evidence of actual Templar coins?

I probably should have said “Crusader” coins rather than Templar coins, but there are such things as Templar coins. Here is one up for sale on Ebay
http://cgi.ebay.com/Crusader-Coins-Rhod...msxZ20090430?IMSfp=TL090430125002r26107<page is down.
The coins in common usage of the Templar period are collectively called “Crusader” coins. I doubt that any Phoenician coins would have been in circulation in their time as that would be a span of many hundreds of years – Byzantine would be more likely. Phoenician coins fell out of use during the Roman empire.

YES but that dang Logic gonna kill your point again Roy..just like NOW old coins are NOT taken out of circulation , why just last week
I got a wheat penny from the change at China-Mart...now if that coin was found out of context, say in a buried China-Mart store 6 centuries from now, archie types and the anal wing of the Histerics Dept would say.HMMM look like this store was buried in 1952..
No Roy ... say it isnt true that your lost your Logic Card or it expired....come on son , get you a new one and take a new look at this
stuff..

​

There was a Norse “penny” (actually a silver coin) found in a shell midden on the coast of Maine, dating to around 1000 AD, which COULD be possibly left there by a Templar but is more likely left by Norse explorers-colonists.

Well of course NOW your Logic is kicking in,, we all know the Vikings were better at TEXAS Holdem, than those poker dumb Templars!

You mentioned the Westford Knight, which is another bit of evidence that COULD be Templar-related, but we don’t have a way to tie it in absolutely. Even the carved stone marking the grave of the Westford Knight – does it rest in the original place where the grave was located? We don’t know – we can’t even say if there was anyone ever buried in that spot.

​

Roy I would believe that we if lived handy, we would be Treasure Huntin' beer drinking buds...and that if that big drunk guy picked on you,
I would haul off and break his jaw, just to get him off you and shut him up..but dang it boy..your COULD's..... COULD get you in the
same type of trouble -intellectually that is-...this time the Big Guy is COMMON SENSE! Yep sitting right over that at the end of the
bar..and he can't hear you right now, cause you ain't talking his lingo?? Kapish? Dude grab some common sense will ya..and
lets get on with this exploration... NOW bring your Logic Card and the Big Guy with you - will we look at the rest of this..
Let break it down home boy....

1. a six foot high petroglyph punched in to STONE near the Atlantic Ocean
2. This memorial to a Knight who died at SEA..<---see you missed this point Roy
3. I guess it COULD have been carved by an Amerindain..(on peyote in a vision)<--Nope Logic thew that on out..east coast no buttons of that type.
Common Sence tossed that one too Roy..peyote is a SouthWest turf kinda thing...
4. Lighting COULD have struck the rock..and the design was just a freak of nature..or as some say..just a rock
Sorry Logic and Common Sense drop kicked that on out the open window real quick!!
5. Ah..a Viking COULD have done it for his cousin-in-law a Templar....Common Sense just LOOKED at you and rolled his eyes!
Logic, just shrugged his shoulders and crossed his arms..oh yea and he is tapping his toe..
6. A glacier could have scratched that shape by accident and ....Common Sense and Logic just left the room Roy!
7. A Templar carved it as a memorial to a good friend and as a marker for all mankind to know that
the Templar's sailed across the Atlantic, and claimed this land in the name of Nobility and Conquest...Common Sense and Logic
just came back into the room and are giving you a High Five for finally "Getting IT"​

I expected that you might propose the Aztec/Toltec god Quetzalcoatl as a Templar knight – after all Quetzalcoatl was a bearded white man, tall, who preached some quite Christian values and practices, wore a white gown with crosses on it, he had arrived in Mexico from across the sea (Atlantic) and left the same way. It is a tantalizing possibility except for the date – Quetzalcoatl appeared in Mexico some time before 500 AD (perhaps much earlier than this, if the Pyramid of the Sun is in fact built to commemorate him, the date would be BC) and the Templars had not yet been formed.

I appreciate the input and the suggestion, but I could NOT propose it - cause I had not one shred of evidence or even supposition beyond that single
entry into the Legend of the Aztec culture.

​

What about those many monuments and mines you mentioned earlier? Do you know of any that we could say absolutely, beyond doubt is Templar?

absolutely is a concept that transcends mere speculation, and no matter what people can conjure UP doubt, in fact some here make a career of it..so NO, what else can you prove absolutely? That the sun will rise tomorrow? Sure Absolutely,. but by definition of it's creations and beginning it means that an end will come one day..so for a bazillion days you can say Absolutely the sun will rise tomorrow, but One Day..the whole thing will End and the Sun Will Not Rise That Day! Follow the Logic? People will always Doubt,. its the refuge of the Timid
, the uninformed, the one with no energy to Explore and Learn, to gain Knowledge and Faith.so that those Leaps can be made..
Oh and Roy a final point please Sir./you said you liked to take your Leaps of Faith with one foot on the ground...well that is NOT a Leap of Faith. .. . that is just a Step!! Leaps of Faith is more like Jumping off the Cliff , Knowing and have Faith that there is a Ledge down there
and you Do and there IS!> See what I am saying Homeboy?

If Templars were indeed sailing to America and back, which route(s) would you propose they used? The south Atlantic route used by Columbus (and Carthaginians) or the north Atlantic route used by Norse (and Carthaginians, as described in Plutarch, Moralia XII, “On the Face of the Moon”) or another route entirely? How would you say they traveled inland to the various mines, by sailing up rivers?

They are called the TRADE WINDS..one of the secrets I think was found by the Templars when they found the secret of Longitude
Did you skip school that day? Cause that was taught in Junior High History...you know circular winds, depending on the time of year.. that the Spanish Exploited for 300 years, sailing bazillions of tons of bullion across the Dark Sea back to Ole Phil and the Boys..

How would you say they traveled inland to the various mines, by sailing up rivers? If so, then the obvious choices like the Mississippi ought to be the logical places for us to search for Templar monuments and markers.
?

The object on with regard to the Mines was secrecy NO obvious monument or guide post would be needed. Monuments would be build that were hidden in plain for the ones who did not know the Code or could not see what they were looking at....

The Templars did in fact build many castles, churches etc in the Old World – yet the manpower was readily available to them there, as they had plenty of money and a large Christian population to do the work. In America they would have a huge pagan population, of alien language and cultural practices (like human sacrifice) which would seem to be very antithetical to...

Well as far as I know there were no human sacrifice among Amerindians, so mute point ergo point non gratia
as far a workers, the Stonecutter Mason were on board with them, traveled with them, and did the excellent work
of manufactoring the stone monuments and markers and of course these were done to hid and to blend in with the
background camo...so they did it right cause to this day , this is a point of contention..so there own sucess was cause
of the doubt that they were even here..brilliant deception exercised by the Templars.

One more question for you – if the Templars did know of America, had rich gold and silver mines there, why wouldn’t they at least inform the Pope of this? Remember the Pope is their “commander in chief” in the temporal world right? Thank you in advance

Simple, how do you know they DIDNT? and if they did I am sure that message was coded! Besides this, once the Pope allowed them to be tortured in effect, they had no allegence to the Pope what do ever..easy when Logic is on your side.

The Templars are NOT my “area of expertise” so I cannot speak with authority about them – according to at least one source, they did not even own the ships they used but hired them, so any cross-Atlantic voyages could easily have become common knowledge it would seem. If Templars were voyaging to America, it makes sense that they would not inform the Christian kings of it, but why not the Vatican? If they had informed the Portuguese Henry the Navigator of America, why is it that the Portuguese failed to find America in their expeditions just prior to 1492? (They made several westward voyages out into the Atlantic in the 1480’s, checking out Columbus’ theories but found no lands.)

It WAS common knowledge as I have been pointing out in this post!! but knowing it was there and getting there, kinda like we know
travel to the moon is possible for man, but is it ONE GIANT LEAP FOR COMMON MAN..
for the Portigees failure, lots of perils at sea, lots of variables, but NOT knowing it was there was not one of them....Logic and Common Sense have sailed and left you here all alone on this one Roy....

There are parts of this story that do not make sense to me, but truth is often stranger than any fiction.

True that!

Thank you for your indulgence and your replies, I look forward to your reply.

Thank you for your indulgence and your replies, I look forward to your reply
and I also thank you in advance and your welcome of writing a couple of chapters for you in your new book! haha
auriferiously
rangler

"set revocare gradum superasque evadere ad auras,hoc opus, hic labor est."

[size=10pt]the descent to the Lower World is easy, coming back is a hard task - Virgil, A. 6.[/size

 

[2fishon]

Have any of you read the Book of Mormon? It is not another Bible. It is a history of the ancient inhabitants of the Americas. Whether you are religious or not, if you like history you must read this book.

 

[Shortstack]

Have any of you read the Book of Mormon? It is not another Bible. It is a history of the ancient inhabitants of the Americas. Whether you are religious or not, if you like history you must read this book.

I have spot read in it. The way a 2Lt I was once stationed with in Louisiana explained it to me; the Mormons study the Book of Mormon along with the KJV Bible because they believe the missing tribe of Israel came to what is now North America and the Book is their story. Sounds logical. There are stories in several Native American Indian tribes that tell of tall, light-skin, men with blueeyes that came into their lands to teach.

Isn't it interesting how the Mormons were ostracised and killed in their travels across America back in the 1800s? Kinda, sorta, maybe a little like the Israelites were 4000 years ago as well as in 1947 right on up to today. If anyone doubts that God is keeping his last covenant with Israel should look at the statistics from the Six Day War and The Yom Kippur War. Both times, the Israelis kicked A--- when, by normal thoughts, they should have been annihilated by the overwhelming numbers of their opposing forces. Yep, better take a closer look.

 

[Shortstack]

Hey, Old Dog. How about that other face?

 

[Oroblanco]

Re: The Land of Ophir <VERY long reply, extra coffee alert>

HOLA amigos,

This will be a pretty long reply, I will TRY to keep my verbiage short, but I must beg your indulgence again.

Rangler wrote

Ok lets see....now "I am fairly convinced that all groups did so..so the Phoneicians reached these shores by being..say blown off track, the Egyptians hitched a ride, dropped a Viking coin, but the ONE group who had the man power, insight, intelegence, motivation and opportunity DIDNT reach these shores??
Time to play the Logic Card Roy...and step back a little and be Objective about this.Your on board with the premise but...
your down there in the hold of the ship,. crying. Land No!! Step up here on the Bridge son, in fact climb that damn main mast,
your find the Crows Nest.. , just git up there , open your eyes and take a gander that the shore line..THATs America dude
and your on a Templar Ship, check your watch, it's quarter past the 14th Century. While you up there-take the chance to be objective....and dont drink the Kool Aid,.

It would seem that you are assuming the Templars had the manpower, insight, intelligence, motivation and opportunity - this is all open to debate. The Templars were very heavily committed in the Holy Land, with limited resources elsewhere and much of that committed to supplying and supporting their outposts and efforts in the Holy Land. I don't know how much records exist of the Templars (I only recently learned that we do have some) but it may be possible to account for all of the Templars and their whereabouts. The original Phoenician "discovery" was directly due to storms, very much as Pedro Cabral, Jean Cousin and others crossed the Atlantic by being blown there in storms. It is recorded in Aristotle's "On Marvelous Things Heard" and in Diodorus Siculus 'Library of History'. The Phoenician ships were sailing south along the Atlantic coast of Africa when the storms blew them west across the ocean. When were any Templar ships ever sailing that area? <Atlantic coast of Africa>

Rangler also wrote

<snip>

Regarding your statement that , an artifact or coin from the Templar's would help and go a long way to prove the point of the existence of the KT in America... consider this then my friend....What coins would have been in their pocket? Would they not have been Phoenician coins Sir? Would it not make
sense, since I have not seen any evidence of actual Templar coins?
<Oroblanco wrote>
I probably should have said “Crusader” coins rather than Templar coins, but there are such things as Templar coins. Here is one up for sale on Ebay
http://cgi.ebay.com/Crusader-Coins-Rhod...msxZ20090430?IMSfp=TL090430125002r26107<page is down.
The coins in common usage of the Templar period are collectively called “Crusader” coins. I doubt that any Phoenician coins would have been in circulation in their time as that would be a span of many hundreds of years – Byzantine would be more likely. <end Oroblanco words>

Phoenician coins fell out of use during the Roman empire.YES but that dang Logic gonna kill your point again Roy..just like NOW old coins are NOT taken out of circulation , why just last week
I got a wheat penny from the change at China-Mart...now if that coin was found out of context, say in a buried China-Mart store 6 centuries from now, archie types and the anal wing of the Histerics Dept would say.HMMM look like this store was buried in 1952..
No Roy ... say it isnt true that your lost your Logic Card or it expired....come on son , get you a new one and take a new look at this
stuff..

Well Dad, your example is very inappropriate. You refer to an American coin less than 100 years old, being found in an American store of slightly later vintage. The Phoenician coins found in America have been quite old - the newest being older than the 1st Punic war (before 264 BC) and when Rome conquered Phoenicia and Carthage (146 BC) the use of Punic and Phoenician coins quickly went out and Roman coins became "legal tender" throughout their world - just as British coins went out of use when America won the war of Independence. For Templars to be using them over 1000 years later, after the Roman empire had fallen and the Byzantine had taken its place (and Byzantine coins were the most common in use in Templar days) is highly unlikely so...there is a major timeline problem to suggest Templars were using Punic coins and dropping them in America.

Rangler also wrote

Quote
There was a Norse “penny” (actually a silver coin) found in a shell midden on the coast of Maine, dating to around 1000 AD, which COULD be possibly left there by a Templar but is more likely left by Norse explorers-colonists.Well of course NOW your Logic is kicking in,, we all know the Vikings were better at TEXAS Holdem, than those poker dumb Templars!

Are you saying that it is more likely that a Templar lost the Norse coin found in Maine than for a Norse colonist, when we have written records and known archaeological sites (Newfoundland) for Norse visitors in America, circa 1000 AD?

Rangler also wrote

You mentioned the Westford Knight, <snip>....
1. a six foot high petroglyph punched in to STONE near the Atlantic Ocean
2. This memorial to a Knight who died at SEA..<---see you missed this point Roy
3. I guess it COULD have been carved by an Amerindain..(on peyote in a vision)<--Nope Logic thew that on out..east coast no buttons of that type.
Common Sence tossed that one too Roy..peyote is a SouthWest turf kinda thing...
4. Lighting COULD have struck the rock..and the design was just a freak of nature..or as some say..just a rock
Sorry Logic and Common Sense drop kicked that on out the open window real quick!!
5. Ah..a Viking COULD have done it for his cousin-in-law a Templar....Common Sense just LOOKED at you and rolled his eyes!
Logic, just shrugged his shoulders and crossed his arms..oh yea and he is tapping his toe..
6. A glacier could have scratched that shape by accident and ....Common Sense and Logic just left the room Roy!
7. A Templar carved it as a memorial to a good friend and as a marker for all mankind to know that
the Templar's sailed across the Atlantic, and claimed this land in the name of Nobility and Conquest...Common Sense and Logic
just came back into the room and are giving you a High Five for finally "Getting IT"

You left out the most obvious possibility, the one which most historians choose for the Westford Knight - that it is a modern hoax. I am not saying it is a hoax, just that it is not proven that this is a grave marker, nor is it proven that it is a Templar marker. It could have been Sir Gunn, serving good Prince Henry Sinclair on a clandestine visit to America, and still NOT be Templar at all. It could be related to the Prince Madog/Madoc story, (doubtful) or another visitor we haven't even mentioned. What makes it specifically Templar, absolutely?

Rangler also wrote

<oroblanco wrote>What about those many monuments and mines you mentioned earlier? Do you know of any that we could say absolutely, beyond doubt is Templar?<end oroblanco>
absolutely is a concept that transcends mere speculation, and no matter what people can conjure UP doubt, in fact some here make a career of it..so NO, what else can you prove absolutely? That the sun will rise tomorrow? Sure Absolutely,. but by definition of it's creations and beginning it means that an end will come one day..so for a bazillion days you can say Absolutely the sun will rise tomorrow, but One Day..the whole thing will End and the Sun Will Not Rise That Day! Follow the Logic? People will always Doubt,. its the refuge of the Timid
, the uninformed, the one with no energy to Explore and Learn, to gain Knowledge and Faith.so that those Leaps can be made..
Oh and Roy a final point please Sir./you said you liked to take your Leaps of Faith with one foot on the ground...well that is NOT a Leap of Faith. .. . that is just a Step!! Leaps of Faith is more like Jumping off the Cliff , Knowing and have Faith that there is a Ledge down there
and you Do and there IS!> See what I am saying Homeboy?

So I must be among those Timid, uninformed, with no energy to Explore and Learn, gain Knowledge, Faith etc because I asked if you knew of a single example of any one monument and/or mine that can be proven to be Templar. I gave examples earlier to show approximately what I was asking, for when we say there were Carthaginians in America, we can show Carthaginian coins, shipwrecks, carved stones, linguistic evidence, ancient texts etc; with other claimants to the 'honor' we have more or less evidence, but definitely something tangible that can be put forth. What can we point to and say that this item/coin/sword/cross/jewelry/inscription etc absolutely, definitely is Templar? The item would have to be something that cannot be some other explanation, like the stone tower which some experts state was built in Colonial times (1600's) or the Westford Knight which could be non-Templar.
I did not state that I like to take leaps of faith with one foot on the ground, I said I don't have a problem with leaps of faith but like to keep one foot on the ground - in other words, if possible I would rather NOT rely on a leap of faith. It is one thing to make such leaps of logic for personal reasons, like any treasure hunter should and rightfully so; however when trying to convince "John Q Public" by presenting a case, it is generally best to keep the leaps to a minimum.

Rangler also wrote

<Oroblanco wrote>If Templars were indeed sailing to America and back, which route(s) would you propose they used? The south Atlantic route used by Columbus (and Carthaginians) or the north Atlantic route used by Norse (and Carthaginians, as described in Plutarch, Moralia XII, “On the Face of the Moon”) or another route entirely? How would you say they traveled inland to the various mines, by sailing up rivers? <end oroblanco.

They are called the TRADE WINDS..one of the secrets I think was found by the Templars when they found the secret of Longitude
Did you skip school that day? Cause that was taught in Junior High History...you know circular winds, depending on the time of year.. that the Spanish Exploited for 300 years, sailing bazillions of tons of bullion across the Dark Sea back to Ole Phil and the Boys..

You are assuming that I didn't know about Trade Winds or the oceanic currents? Sheesh - and still you did not tell me the routes you believe were used by our Templars to get to and from America. If you are going to propose that some people sailed to America long before Columbus, it is necessary to show a route they used to get there - here is an example map showing routes of Norse (Viking) explorers

Ranger also wrote

Quote
<Oroblanco wrote>The Templars did in fact build many castles, churches etc in the Old World – yet the manpower was readily available to them there, as they had plenty of money and a large Christian population to do the work. In America they would have a huge pagan population, of alien language and cultural practices (like human sacrifice) which would seem to be very antithetical to... <end Oroblanco words>
Well as far as I know there were no human sacrifice among Amerindians, so mute point ergo point non gratia
as far a workers, the Stonecutter Mason were on board with them, traveled with them, and did the excellent work
of manufactoring the stone monuments and markers and of course these were done to hid and to blend in with the
background camo...so they did it right cause to this day , this is a point of contention..so there own sucess was cause
of the doubt that they were even here..brilliant deception exercised by the Templars.

No human sacrifice among Amerindians? What about Aztecs? (20,000 in one spree, documented by Spanish) Others were cannibals, like the Susquehannocks, Caribs, etc. However you are saying they brought their workers with them, which is quite another (and huge) problem, logistics, and maintaining secrecy with non-Templar employees.

Rangler also wrote

<Oroblanco wrote>One more question for you – if the Templars did know of America, had rich gold and silver mines there, why wouldn’t they at least inform the Pope of this? Remember the Pope is their “commander in chief” in the temporal world right? Thank you in advance{end Oroblanco words>
Simple, how do you know they DIDNT? and if they did I am sure that message was coded! Besides this, once the Pope allowed them to be tortured in effect, they had no allegence to the Pope what do ever..easy when Logic is on your side.

Considering the Papal Bull of 1493 (and 1518) it is readily apparent that the Vatican didn't know America existed prior to this date, even though they had dispatched a bishop to Vinland around 1320, the true location of Vinland and that it was not simply an island must not have been known - or there would have been very different Papal Bulls in 1493, 1518 etc.

Rangler also wrote

Quote
<snip> <Oroblanco wrote>. If Templars were voyaging to America, it makes sense that they would not inform the Christian kings of it, but why not the Vatican? If they had informed the Portuguese Henry the Navigator of America, why is it that the Portuguese failed to find America in their expeditions just prior to 1492? (They made several westward voyages out into the Atlantic in the 1480’s, checking out Columbus’ theories but found no lands.)
It WAS common knowledge as I have been pointing out in this post!! but knowing it was there and getting there, kinda like we know travel to the moon is possible for man, but is it ONE GIANT LEAP FOR COMMON MAN..
for the Portigees failure, lots of perils at sea, lots of variables, but NOT knowing it was there was not one of them....Logic and Common Sense have sailed and left you here all alone on this one Roy....

Wow really amigo I get quite the exact opposite logical conclusions from these bits - logically, since the Templars were not killed off in Portugal and were on excellent terms with Portuguese kings, then Portuguese explorers ought to have been standing on the shore firing cannons at Columbus and his pals when they crossed the Atlantic. Logic and common sense.

Rangler also wrote

<snip>I also thank you in advance and your welcome of writing a couple of chapters for you in your new book! haha
auriferiously

Thank you for the kind offer, as it stands I do not have a chapter on Templars, for many of the reasons we have been discussing - not enough 'hard evidence' to make the case. Let me ask for a different type of evidence - how about an ancient written record? Do you know of any record that tells of a Templar voyage west, across the Atlantic? Of course America would not be referred to by that name, they might call it Hesperia or Satanzes etc. For example, with Sinclair we have the Zeno narrative (which some scholars claim is fake, naturally) or with the Phoenicians we had Aristotle, Diodorus etc. The Zeno narrative doesn't make any reference to any Templars or I would accept it as documentary evidence.

My apologies for the very long-winded reply, and thank you in advance.
your friend,
Oroblanco

 

[pippinwhitepaws]

There is much that has over time been sacrificed as heretical,
that is why the locations of the actual photos here will never be made public.
Historians still have a tendency to hide or erase what doesn't agree with what they believe.

garbage in, garbage out.
historians study history...not speculation and gossip.

That is certainly a goodly amount of bovine flatulence. Historians have notoriously slanted their historical works toward their own beliefs and self-interests. Excellent examples are the writings covering the Indian Wars; Woodrow Wilson; Franklin D. Roosevelt; the Viet Nam War; just to name a few random subject areas. So called "Historians" have led people to believe Ho Che Mien was a life-long Communist America-hater when, in actuality, he was a very good friend of the USA during and right after World War 2. Until Harry Truman refused to back him at the League of Nations when he wanted Indochina to be free from French Colonialism. Yeah, RIGHT. Historian non-partisanship my.............FOOT!

fine..you have the basic grasp of the issue...beard and becker....
now we come to the revisionists position..the deconstructionist historian...one who RE-examines "EVIDENCE" and attempts to build a rational and cohesive view of history...including those who's history was stolen.
yet...all i hear is screaming hoards of people condemning revisionists attempts to rebuild factual, non biased reviews....

and ho chi min came to the us to gain support for his attempt to remove french colonialists from vietnam...then he went to china where they promptly placed him in prison...hence his famous line" when the prison doors are open, the true dragon shall fly out"

 

[rangler]

Oro
you said...

It would seem that you are assuming the Templars had the manpower, insight, intelligence, motivation and opportunity - this is all open to debate. The Templars were very heavily committed in the Holy Land, with limited resources elsewhere and much of that committed to supplying and supporting their outposts and efforts in the Holy Land.

The Templar period lasted over 200 years and they had over 20,000 members at one point..and the Templars where granted the status of a "Charity" and paid no Taxes...money and lands flowed to the Templars, their banking systems charged no fees, but accepted gifts for the service, folks were grateful for the security of their riches and were grateful!

so your charge that they had no time or money is not very valid in light of the above - logic mutes your point.

​

You left out the most obvious possibility, the one which most historians choose for the Westford Knight - that it is a modern hoax. I am not saying it is a hoax, just that it is not proven that this is a grave marker, nor is it proven that it is a Templar marker. It could have been Sir Gunn, serving good Prince Henry Sinclair on a clandestine visit to America, and still NOT be Templar at all. It could be related to the Prince Madog/Madoc story, (doubtful) or another visitor we haven't even mentioned. What makes it specifically Templar, absolutely?

What makes it specifically Templar? Because it WAS a Templar..who else would know the exact detail of the style, tone, artifacts, design and the subtle things like the sword being broken to show a death had occured...I am afraid your are losing some of your objectivity, as you cant see the forest for the trees in this case! It's a TEMPLAR in all his finery
down to the last detail..you lost this point Roy. Common sense has ruled in my favor.

I will give you the point and concede the COIN artifact point, your logic and facts won me over and I shall search for other artifact of the Templar in America ,.. Roy 1 / Rangler 1 lol

​

the Phoenicians pay tribute to King Solomon in the form of riches from Ophir

So I must be among those Timid, uninformed, with no energy to Explore and Learn, gain Knowledge, Faith etc because I asked if you knew of a single example of any one monument and/or mine that can be proven to be Templar. I gave examples earlier to show approximately what I was asking, for when we say there were Carthaginians in America, we can show Carthaginian coins, shipwrecks, carved stones, linguistic evidence, ancient texts etc; with other claimants to the 'honor' we have more or less evidence, but definitely something tangible that can be put forth. What can we point to and say that this item/coin/sword/cross/jewelry/inscription etc absolutely, definitely is Templar? The item would have to be something that cannot be some other explanation, like the stone tower which some experts state was built in Colonial times (1600's) or the Westford Knight which could be non-Templar

Actually the evidence that you are NOT the referred to Nay-sayer, the Timid ones... by your energetic posts, I was merely taking editorial license to take an obtuse shot at those who are, shameless I know, but hey..I make no apologies for the truth..just a bad aim is all.!


With regard to your request the following should be noted as pretty undeniable...

http://www.renaissancemagazine.com/backissues/sinclair.html
14th-century cannon in Louisburg Harbor dates back to Henry's time and a stone wall near Halifax, which also dates back to the 14th century, has a distinctly Scottish design to it.

​

also an artifact all to often overlooked at the location of the Sinclair Tower and the Sir Gunn, Westford Templar Knight is the Stone Boat artifact..
abstract...
"Located in the basement of the library in Westford, MA is an oval-shaped "boat" stone, measuring about 2 feet in diameter. Carved into its surface is the image of a 14th-century ship, an arrow, and the numbers 184, presumably indicating the distance to where a campsite was located. 
A construction crew discovered the boat stone over 30 years ago when a road was being built; the stone was subsequently moved to someone's garage, until it was recently donated to the library. Archaeological evidence indicates these images were probably carved at the same time as the Westford Knight carving, most probably by the same voyagers."


Dont forget that vistors leave behind language and words that get incorporated in to local dialects..
consider this abstract...

Certainly, the number of Norse and Gaelic words in the languages of the Algonquin tribes indicates that trade had been taking place between Europe and America before the time of Columbus. Micmac indians of the 14th century tell legends of a blond haired, blue eyed god who they called "Glooscap," whose friendly manner won the hearts of the natives. He treated them fairly and taught them to fish with nets. Indeed, fishing was a natural pastime for Sinclair's companions. According to a Micmac Legend, "[Glooscap] built himself an island, planted trees on it, and sailed away in his stone canoe." They also spoke of the men who built Newport Tower as "fire-haired men with green eyes."
 (bold emphasis are mine)

Also consider the evidence on the other side of the Atlantic, and Rossyn Chapel
Prince Henry Sinclair's historic voyage of 1398 is even indelibly hewn in stone at the Rosslyn Chapel in Scotland, where there are stone carvings of Indian maize and American aloe cacti, which were carved before Columbus was born and were native only to the Americas.(bold type is mine)

Of course you know the significance of that bit of art work , as maize is corn and corn is strictly a Western Hemisphere artifact!
Now look at this tidbit..from the Landing spot of Prince Sinclair...

http://sinclair.quarterman.org/sinclair/phssna.html

The only monument to commemorate the landing of the Prince Henry Sinclair Expedition in 1398 to Nova Scotia, Canada was erected November 17, 1996 by the Prince Henry Sinclair Society of North America, Inc. It is a fifteen-ton granite boulder with a black granite narrative plaque located at Halfway Cove on Rt. 16 in Guysborough County, Nova Scotia, above the original landing site
The monument is in a scenic pinic area with interpretive panels and offers a panoramic view of Chedebucto Bay

Now consider the Wiki page with regard to the Templars...

the Knights Templar discovered under the Temple Mount in Jerusalem a royal archive dating from King Solomon's times that stated that Phoenicians from Tyre, by orders of Solomon, voyaged to a westerly continent following a star called "La Merika". According to Knight and Lomas, the Templars learned that to sail to that continent, they had to follow a star by the same name, which became the origin of the name "America". Sinclair supposedly followed this route.[7]
The theory also makes use of the supposed Templar connection to explain the name Nova Scotia ("New Scotland" in Latin), basing themselves on the 18th century tale that some Templars escaped the suppression of their order by fleeing to Scotland of Robert the Bruce[8] and fought in the Battle of Bannockburn,[9]
Claims persist that Rosslyn Chapel contains Templar imagery. Andrew Sinclair speculates that the grave slab now in the crypt is that of a Templar knight[10]: According to author Robert Lomas, the chapel also has an engraving depicting a knight templar holding the sword over a head of an initiate, supposedly to protect the secrets of the templars.[11] Rosslyn Chapel was built by Sir William St Clair, last St Clair Earl of Orkney, who was the grandson of Henry. According to Lomas, Sir William, the chapel builder, is also the direct ancestor of the first Grand Master of Masons of Scotland, also named William St Clair (Sinclair).[11]
According to Lomas, the Sinclairs and their French relatives the St. Clairs were instrumental in creating the Knights Templar. He claims that the founder of Templars Hugh de Payns was married to a sister of the Duke of Champaine (Henri de St. Clair), [12] who was a powerful broker of the first Crusade and had the political power to nominate the Pope, and to suggest the idea and empower it to the Pope.



Now back here to good ole Le Merika we find the efforts of decendant of the Tempars some very interesting
infomation, most of it carved in stone..

~~~~http://ancientlosttreasures.yuku.co...e-Treasure-of-the-Knights-Templar.html?page=1

The Ark, is a trunk type box, this Ark was retrieved from Tyre, not the Temple Mount, as I stated, it held the ancient scrolls for the route to Ophir by land and Sea.

Found during an Archeological dig of the ancient city of Byblos back in the 1950's, was an ancient Urn type vassal, dipicted on this Urn was a chronology of the trips to Ophir in pictographs.
This Urn, found in Byblos, has the symbol of Tanit depicted upon it.

Casa Grande Arizona

During another dig, this one at Casa Grande Arizona, a Sea Shell was discovered at the base of a Garden wall,,, this Sea Shell was carved in the likeness of the compass and leel of the Knights Templar Iconography.

It was dated to the 13th century.

KNIGHTS TEMPLAR IN ARIZONA IN THE 1240'S ?
Yes indeed, the Stone building there was Built for their Head quaters while seeking the Treasures of Solomon.

At Victorio Peak is today a Hugh Knights Templar Cross carved into a colum of stone.
Many places in the states, these Knights Templar artefacts can be found.

The first expedition to the states was rife with dificulties.
One of those was when the Knights cruised the coast line of the southern states looking for the Rio Grande river as they're route up to the store houses.
They navigated up the Missisippi thinking it was the River they were to follow.
That cost them a few months of time

more from Mr Roger Snow
~~
Knights Templar in the Organ mountains of New Mexico
#4

At the entrance to Johnson canyon in the Organ Mountains can be found a boulder, painted upon this boulder in the Beausant of the flag of the Knights Templar.

Entering Johnson canyon oewill see a large square peak, chiseld in the peak is a Knights Templar Cross.
Not far from that is a treasure concealed in a cave, sealed up with dyed caliche cement and matching the rock it is hidden in.

Soledad Canyon

Entering Soledad from the east end of the canyon, one will fid the Tortugas monuments, these are stone turtles, set amoungst these will be other stone monuments, this area was a sacred site to indigenous peoples.
efore entering the canyon, a side road forks Northwest off the main road to a cement walled structure that was at one tikme the Beasley Trading post.
ehind this is a bluff with a cave, the cave is now blown apart, but at one time it was the tomb of a Knights Templar who was sealed in the tomb inside his stone sarcoughagus.
Above the sealed entrance was his initials carved and Knights Templar symbols for his Family strikemark.

Heading west into the canyon ad halfway through the canyon can be found more Templar monuments, One, is a replica of the Horse of God as found at Rennes Le Chatau In Rennes France.
Another is a Knights Templar Cross carved on a boulder just north of that Horse of God stone monument.
Near both of those is another treasure hidden.

North again and one can find the sealed cave of Jaques Rascione, a Knights Templar and an anscestor of mine.
Throughout the Organ Mountains are even more Knights Templar Crosses carved as well as further symbols of these men who visited this land of Ophir before the advent of Columbus and the scourge known as the Spanish.

One final point ,.you said....

Wow really amigo I get quite the exact opposite logical conclusions from these bits - logically, since the Templars were not killed off in Portugal and were on excellent terms with Portuguese kings, then Portuguese explorers ought to have been standing on the shore firing cannons at Columbus and his pals when they crossed the Atlantic. Logic and common sense.

But you see Roy, Ole Chris smacked in to the Caribbean by accident..The Templars sailed by charts and knew how to find Nove Scotia on purpose, besides IF Columbo could have found Nova Scotia, the Templar Crosses on the ships would have prevented them from firing on a brother members at least one flying the colors! See your not thinking these things through Roy..
Thanks for your relpy and thank you in advance for you retort to this one..
I am chasing a report of a Knights Templar sword sheath found in western usa...and located
in a muesum somewhere..more on this later..
your friend
rangler

​

the city of Trye in Solomons time
Caedite eos! Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius" --
"Kill them [all]! Surely the Lord discerns which [ones] are his

 

[Shortstack]

..... ho chi min came to the us to gain support for his attempt to remove french colonialists from vietnam...then he went to china where they promptly placed him in prison...hence his famous line" when the prison doors are open, the true dragon shall fly out"

During World War 2, Ho Chi Min was a leader of the resistance in Indochina against the Japanese forces. He and his people fought along side US forces in that theater of war. Tens of thousands of his people died in the war. The ONLY thing Ho ask for in return for their helping the US was for President Truman to support his petition to the League of Nations for his country's independence from French colonialism. Yes, he came to the US seeking support for his people in that wish. But, Truman glued his lips to Charles De Gaulle's a-- and turned his back on Ho. That pushed Ho into becoming a life long enemy of the US because he saw Truman's move as a serious slap in the face. Truman was more interested in glad handing the French. The French wanted to keep their rubber plantations in Vietnam. In about 1966, DeGaulle kicked the US out of France ( we had military bases there as part of our NATO responsibilities.) and moved his government more toward Socialism. THAT's the basis of France's government today, with its screwed up system of socialized governance.
Ho attended college in the US at UC Berkley (of all places) and, I think, Stanford. During the Viet Nam war, he had young Vietnamese people come to the States and attend colleges around the country where they, quietly stirred up the antiwar sentiments on those school campuses. Ho kept telling his people that they could have victory over us if they could just "hold on" because the US would beat itself, from within. And, that idiot LBJ and his butt-buddy Robert McNamara, helped in our defeat, with his stupid rules of engagement. Everytime we'd have the North on it's knees, LBJ would call a bombing halt. He and McNamara were directly responsible for the deaths of a large portion of our KIAs. This all could have been avoided if Truman had done the "right thing" by Ho and his people after WW2.
Right now, Obama is setting up the same scenario by trying to be friends with the Arab terrorists.

I have gone too far off topic as it was started by rangler. Appologies to you rangler, I won't do it anymore.

 

[rangler]

Shortstack
No apology necessary! I am a big fan of the truth no matter where it pops up
and this story is little known and little told....and I thank you for telling it!
Imagine how history would changed and lives that would have been saved.
if we wouldnt have been sucking up to Socialists
is there a lesson in there?
rangler


"the more things change, the more they stay the same"

 

[Shortstack]

Shortstack
No apology necessary! I am a big fan of the truth no matter where it pops up
and this story is little known and little told....and I thank you for telling it!
Imagine how history would changed and lives that would have been saved.
if we wouldnt have been sucking up to Socialists
is there a lesson in there?
rangler


"the more things change, the more they stay the same"

Yep. then, we couldn't bomb a SAM sites unless it actually fired a missle at us. Now, we can't splash a little water in a terrorist's face. But, again, I degress.

rangler, what do you think of Brad Steiger's books? He seems to try to cover a wide subject area and I'm wondering if he may be overreaching. What's your opinion?
Also, have you ever read,Invisible Residents, by Ivan T. Sanderson or The Holographic Universe, by Michael Talbot?