The Knights Templar connection to Oak Island Challenge

[Dave Rishar]

Do we know for sure that Keith's "small body of horse" as Cassell describes it in volume 1 of his "History of England" consists of only Scottish riders?

We don't anything anything for sure about that battle, including where it occurred. There are like five or six primary sources that mention it, and most of those were written by authors that were not alive when it happened.

On that note, is there even a single primary source documenting the battle in existence where the author was known for sure to have firsthand knowledge of the event? Sir Thomas Grey (the younger) would have heard about it from his father, who was in the thick of things the first day and was a prisoner for the second. As far as I know, that's as close as we can get to this battle: the retelling of a personal account of a hotheaded knight that was there, but probably didn't see too much of it.

For all that we don't know about this battle and the problems associated with the primary sources, I'd caution anyone against firmly asserting that anyone besides the English and the Scots were there.

EDIT: Moments after typing that, I had a humorous discussion about this with my girlfriend. Based on our most solid piece of evidence (a 2nd hand account many years after the fact), I suspect that in a court of law, we'd be unable to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the Battle of Bannockburn even happened. Just for context when we're talking about who was and was not there.

 

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[franklin]

The only cavalry at the Battle of Bannockburn was the SCOTTS CAVALRY of 500, led by Sir Robert de Keth (Keith), that advanced around Milton Bog, attacking the left flank of the English archers.
There exists No records outside of the pulp pseudo histories of Templars at this battle, or of a 300 Templar cavalry being led by Henry Sinclair, the Lord Sinclair of Rosslyn.

You do er in your history. Sir Henry Sinclair was not at the Battle of Bannockburn. It was Sir William Sinclair.

 

[ECS]

You do er in your history. Sir Henry Sinclair was not at the Battle of Bannockburn. It was Sir William Sinclair.

Neither was Bishop William Sinclair on Dunkeld, who led the charge at the 1316 Battle of the Firth of Forth, driving the invading English back to their ships.

PS; The Sir Henry Sinclair statement originated from a quasi historians book that has been mention many times on this and other threads.
The first mention of Templars in Scotland originated with exiled Crown Heir Charles Edward Stuart's mentor, Andrew Michael Ramsey, a Freemason, who in a 1737 Oration made this connection," Our ancestors, the Crusaders, gathered together from all parts of Christendom in the Holy Land, desired there to reunite into one sole Fraternity" and then concluded "Every Mason is a Knight Templar", and then accepted and grafted onto Scottish Freemasonry.
Two descendants of Henry Sinclair, Thomas Sinclair in 1897, expanded the Templar connection in his attempt to claim his ancestor "discovered" the New World before Columbus", and Andrew Sinclair repeated this and added more misinformation with his 1992 "THE SWORD AND THE GRAIL".
Diana Jean Muir, claiming also to be a Sinclair descendant is the current torch bearer with her "discovered" "The Templar Journals Of Prince Henry Sinclair".
Keep in mind, that not all Crusaders were Templars, and all Templars were Crusaders, and neither Crusader nor Templar were Freemasons.

 

[franklin]

If you say so? But I don't say so.

 

[ECS]

If you say so? But I don't say so.

Which of the above posted facts do you refer?

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Neither was Bishop William Sinclair on Dunkeld, who led the charge at the 1316 Battle of the Firth of Forth, driving the invading English back to their ships.

PS; The Sir Henry Sinclair statement originated from a quasi historians book that has been mention many times on this and other threads.
The first mention of Templars in Scotland originated with exiled Crown Heir Charles Edward Stuart's mentor, Andrew Michael Ramsey, a Freemason, who in a 1737 Oration made this connection," Our ancestors, the Crusaders, gathered together from all parts of Christendom in the Holy Land, desired there to reunite into one sole Fraternity" and then concluded "Every Mason is a Knight Templar", and then accepted and grafted onto Scottish Freemasonry.
Two descendants of Henry Sinclair, Thomas Sinclair in 1897, expanded the Templar connection in his attempt to claim his ancestor "discovered" the New World before Columbus", and Andrew Sinclair repeated this and added more misinformation with his 1992 "THE SWORD AND THE GRAIL".
Diana Jean Muir, claiming also to be a Sinclair descendant is the current torch bearer with her "discovered" "The Templar Journals Of Prince Henry Sinclair".
Keep in mind, that not all Crusaders were Templars, and all Templars were Crusaders, and neither Crusader nor Templar were Freemasons.

The REAL "saying" is... "All CHRISTIAN Masons should be Knights Templar...". We have Masons of ALL Faiths.

 

[franklin]

The REAL "saying" is... "All CHRISTIAN Masons should be Knights Templar...". We have Masons of ALL Faiths.

I do not believe that is quite correct. I do not believe many Knight's Templar were CHRISTIAN. They found the TRUTH under the South Wall of Solomon's Temple. That is why the Pope tried to exterminate them. Solomon means "Sun" and "Moon."

 

[ECS]

The Knights Templar were formed as an Order of the Catholic Church.
Because of their vast wealth and growing power, they were perceived to be a threat to the Church's power, and the French King desired their wealth and holdings.
What they allegedly found under Solomon's Temple had nothing to do with the October raids on Friday the 13th, only given rise to unproven myths, legends, lore that have been incorporated by the writers of pulp quasi history books as garbled facts proving their various undocumented claims existing only in these books of "pop" history.

 

[ECS]

We don't anything anything for sure about that battle, including where it occurred. There are like five or six primary sources that mention it, and most of those were written by authors that were not alive when it happened...

For all that we don't know about this battle and the problems associated with the primary sources, I'd caution anyone against firmly asserting that anyone besides the English and the Scots were there...

There is no contemporary account of the Battle of Bannockburn of Templars cavalry charging in and turning the tide of that battle. NONE
There is of Sir Robert de Keth's Scotts Cavalry, and Keth was NOT a Templar, nor is that mentioned about his men.

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

And another one is added to the ignore list

Testing. Testing. 1..2..3.. Tap, tap, tap.

 

[tinpan]

Hi .Most concepts and stories about Knights Templar in modern culture came from inspired ideas made up from images in the paintings from a collection known as Salles Des Croisades which has been a part of the Palace of Vesailles since the mid 19th Century .

CRUSADES AGAINST THE GRAIL written by OTTO RAHN 1934

Do you want to keep putting more of the BS that is used as Evidence . TP

 

[tinpan]

Hi When the Bible was translated into English . Jerusalem ended up with three letter sequence of USA in it

J e r U S A s a l e m Just by chance and not some sort of secret Bacon Code . The rest of the conjured rubbish about this has been proven to be BS TP

 

[tinpan]

Hi Knight Templar were Celibates .They didn,t marry or have sex or children . This Catholic Religious Law TP

 

[tinpan]

Hi Knight Templar had to give up all their worldly possessions including Nobility Title and Birth Right , Land holdings , wealth and family . Catholic Religious Law. This fact is in all religious orders of the Catholic Church .If you cannot even get the basic understanding of Catholicism . Join and give up your evil protestant heretic ways.TP

 

[lokiblossom]

What they allegedly found under Solomon's Temple had nothing to do with the October raids on Friday the 13th,

Correct, but information they garnered in Jerusalem had a lot to do with the Pope's order in November of 1307!

Cheers, Loki

 

[lokiblossom]

There is no contemporary account of the Battle of Bannockburn of Templars cavalry charging in and turning the tide of that battle. NONE
There is of Sir Robert de Keth's Scotts Cavalry, and Keth was NOT a Templar, nor is that mentioned about his men.

Sir Robert's Cavalry did turn the tide of the battle, and perhaps the legend of him or his men being escaped Templars is worth looking into, I'm just saying! As Dave mentioned, history is not very telling concerning anything about the battle at Bannockburn creek.
Who were the men and how many were taking Bruce's heart to Jerusalem, and is this something the average Scottish knight would attempt? Which of course didn't happen.

Cheers, Loki

 

[ARC]

I think Wal-Mart and 7-elevn are looking to buy land on Oak Island....

and rumor of Amazon wanting to make it a distribution center.

 

[lokiblossom]

Hi Knight Templar had to give up all their worldly possessions including Nobility Title and Birth Right , Land holdings , wealth and family . Catholic Religious Law. This fact is in all religious orders of the Catholic Church .If you cannot even get the basic understanding of Catholicism . Join and give up your evil protestant heretic ways.TP

I think that all of us in this discussion understand how Catholic Orders work TP.

Cheers, Loki

 

[Rebel - KGC]

I do not believe that is quite correct. I do not believe many Knight's Templar were CHRISTIAN. They found the TRUTH under the South Wall of Solomon's Temple. That is why the Pope tried to exterminate them. Solomon means "Sun" and "Moon."[/QUOT
I was referring to today's Royal Arch Masons of the YORK RITE...

 

[lokiblossom]

The Knights Templar were formed as an Order of the Catholic Church.
Because of their vast wealth and growing power, they were perceived to be a threat to the Church's power,

Yes, they were but those were not the only reasons as they also had a knowledge that was perceived as a threat, the same knowledge the Cathar's had that also cost them dearly! The Cathars were exterminated, the Templars took the proof to Nova Scotia, in my own humble opinion!


Cheers, Loki