The Knights Templar connection to Oak Island Challenge

[Al D]

Why try so hard to belittle somebody, you have no idea what I am about. Pissed yourself ah, cool!

Cheers, Loki

I deal with lots of people like you, your self worth is based upon what others think of you and your importance is established by what magnificent things you have done, here is some info for ya.
most people have done the same or similar, it is not a big deal sailing the ocean or piloting a plane, but you act as if it is something special and think it makes you special, what a joke.

 

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[lokiblossom]

I deal with lots of people like you, your self worth is based upon what others think of you and your importance is established by what magnificent things you have done, here is some info for ya.
most people have done the same or similar, it is not a big deal sailing the ocean or piloting a plane, but you act as if it is something special and think it makes you special, what a joke.

What exactly is the matter with you? You made the statement that I obviously had not sailed in the Atlantic Ocean and that I was just an "arm chair know it all", so what am I supposed to do, agree with you, or tell you "No" and explain I am experienced when I say if a vessel can sail the Mediterranean it can sail the Atlantic Ocean!


Cheers, Loki

 

[ECS]

Same for you, you have no idea what I am about!

Nor do I care.
Now let us review
There is NO collaborating evidence outside of Brother Jean de Chalons that confirm that:
"he himself met Brother de Villers leading 50 horses
That 18 galleys set out to sea as "he heard it said"- NO direct knowledge
La Rochelle nor any other Templar port is mention for these alleged 18 galleys
Brother Hugues de Chalons "fled with the whole treasure of Brother Hugues de Pairaud"
One is expected to believe that no one in the French countryside saw a Templar Knight lead 50 horses or port workers noticing the loading of 18 galleys and their departure?
So all of the above as being true is highly suspect.
Now lets discuss coconut coir that some came is proof that the Templars visited Oak Island to get away from the King of France and the Pope.

Coconut Coir was used for ship riggings and rope since the 11th century, sometimes combined with hemp, up until recent times. One can buy coir door mats and other coir products from Amazon , even Walmart.
The Templars did not then or ever have an exclusivity on coconut coir.

If one actually takes the time to research the galleys of the Templar period, it would become obvious with their flat bottoms and low to the water gunwales, there is NO way they could survive an Atlantic crossing.

Then there is the mention of Templar treasure buried at the pit on Oak Island.
What was this treasure that had to be hidden across the Atlantic from France? Brother Hugues de Pairaud stolen whole treasure?

There are more holes in these Templar tales then those caused by Oak Island treasure hunters.

 

[ECS]

... I am experienced when I say if a vessel can sail the Mediterranean it can sail the Atlantic Ocean!

Flat bottom, low to the water gunwale, crossing the Atlantic in a 13th century Mediterranean galley would be like crossing Lake Superior in a flat bottom jon boat- neither are designed for that purpose.
...or are you now going to claim your experienced by doing that?

 

[Al D]

What exactly is the matter with you? You made the statement that I obviously had not sailed in the Atlantic Ocean and that I was just an "arm chair know it all", so what am I supposed to do, agree with you, or tell you "No" and explain I am experienced when I say if a vessel can sail the Mediterranean it can sail the Atlantic Ocean!


Cheers, Loki

You do not seem to understand the difference between the Med and the Atlantic, if you think a ship like a galley with low freeboard and holes in the hull for oars could survive sailing in the Atlantic.

 

[Al D]

Flat bottom, low to the water gunwale, crossing the Atlantic in a 13th century Mediterranean galley would be like crossing Lake Superior in a flat bottom jon boat- neither are designed for that purpose.
...or are you now going to claim your experienced by doing that?

He obviously thinks that water is the same everywhere, and that lake sailing is the same as ocean sailing, he has no clue

 

[somehiker]

https://www.google.com/search?q=row...VyhOAKHX_4BQ8Q7AkoAXoECAsQDQ&biw=1185&bih=625

 

[somehiker]

https://medium.com/@info_44554/5ft-...to-ever-cross-the-atlantic-ocean-fa6077c3ca8e

 

[Al D]

https://www.google.com/search?q=row...VyhOAKHX_4BQ8Q7AkoAXoECAsQDQ&biw=1185&bih=625

Cute, but it ain’t a galley

 

[Al D]

https://medium.com/@info_44554/5ft-...to-ever-cross-the-atlantic-ocean-fa6077c3ca8e

Same thing, the vessels on these sites have a permanent positive buoyancy, they cannot sink, a galley however will sink if it gets swamped by a wave or takes on water.

 

[somehiker]

Though I'm not saying they could have visited or buried anything on Oak Island, I do not consider it impossible, given good weather for the passage, for a successful voyage to somewhere else in the Americas to have taken place. Or at least an attempt to have been made, given the circumstances they faced at the time.

 

[somehiker]

Same thing, the vessels on these sites have a permanent positive buoyancy, they cannot sink, a galley however will sink if it gets swamped by a wave or takes on water.

Could buoyancy be added to a galley by using coconut coir ?
After all, it's used for floating gardens for example.

 

[lokiblossom]

Hmm, I had always thought a galley was a type of ship. Yep, de Chalons did mention galleys which is a ship or vessel. Any vessel capable of traversing the Mediterranean was also capable of traversing the Atlantic, anybody who doesn't believe this has never seen the Great Lakes!

Although the description of a galley is usually that of an oared vessel with a small sail fitted, some of these such as the Genoese, and Venetian types of the late 13th century (probably those bought by the Templars) had evolved into primarily sailing vessels, even at this, they still featured oars to be used for entering and leaving ports of call. Or they could be called upon to produce propulsion if need be.

Cheers, Loki

A friend of mine was recently (still is) involved with the replica Viking ship the "Draken Harald Harfagre" which recently sailed from Norway to Bay City, Michigan. An open deck ship, they had their moments crossing the Atlantic in April, but were quite surprised by the ferocity of the Great Lakes. I stand by my statement, any vessel that can reliably sail the Mediterranean can sail the Atlantic. Of course cautions would be advised with any vessel, and I wouldn't make the trip in April myself! Hell, the Atlantic has been crossed in a rowboat.

Cheers, Loki

 

[lokiblossom]

This about La Rochelle from the calendar of patent rolls 1225-1235 "The Knights Templar in Britain" Evelyn Lord pg. 120; "their main fleet was in La Rochelle, and it was this fleet, berthed away from the theatre of war, that was part of the maritime network linking the Order with in the British Isles, with the continent".

Cheers, Loki

The main fleet was where?

Cheers, Loki

 

[lokiblossom]

Coconut Coir was used for ship riggings and rope since the 11th century, sometimes combined with hemp, up until recent times. One can buy coir door mats and other coir products from Amazon , even Walmart.
The Templars did not then or ever have an exclusivity on coconut coir.

During the Templar period, "coconut fibre" (coir) was only produced around the Indian Ocean, mostly in India where it was a major industry! The coconut fibre on Oak Island was all dated to near the end of the Templar period (when some of them fled France). The only place to obtain coconut fibre "at the time" was somewhere where someone could have traded with India. As the Arabs were trading with India at the time (across Egypt), this limits the use of the coir "at the time" to the Eastern Mediterranean (the Europeans were using hemp for ships lines). As we know that some 10 Templar vessels left Cyprus in late 1306 or early 1307 for France (La Rochelle, as the meeting was to be in Poitiers) it is most likely that they carried coconut fibre in their holds for packing and coir for there lines. As per my own and quite a few others premises, these same vessels fled France sometime before early September 1307, most likely with whatever they arrived with at La Rochelle still in their holds. Hence, coconut fibre dated to near the end of the Templar era on Oak Island!

Cheers, Loki

 

[ECS]

Loki, wishful maybe could be thinking, circumstantial at best, but NOT proof that the Templars were at Oak Island, just as there is NO outside collaboration of de Chalons testimony about 18 galleys setting out to sea, de Villiers leading 50 horses, or Hugues de Pairaud's whole treasure.
All the quotes you post as proof is nothing more that a pretzel logic romp through Templar history that have nothing to do nor address these three basic statements of de Chalons on which the alleged Templar voyage to Nova Scotia is based.

"Some of the myths surrounding the Templars have to do with the Grail, Tarot, Cabala, and treasure".-Dr Evelyn Lord, University of Cambridge, UK (retired)

Dr Lord's Templar books are about the British Templars in York and Northern Britain, and presents a concise history avoiding all the "because the Templars had a port here loaded with coir, they went to wherever" speculative mythical nonsense.

 

[Caryl]

Something I'm just tossing out there that seems to be missed by everyone discussing the coir. While it has been theorized that coir was used to make a french drain or as a filter to keep particles out of a french drain. It wouldn't work that way for long as it would get clogged itself.

In addition. I would never use coir in the hull of a boat. Boats were not water tight, and coir is one of the most absorbent fibers there is! I use a ridiculous amount in my green house. l am always amazed at how much and for how long it holds water, keeping things wet and heavy, if it cannot flow out over time.

 

[ECS]

A friend of mine was recently (still is) involved with the replica Viking ship the "Draken Harald Harfagre" which recently sailed from Norway to Bay City, Michigan.
An open deck ship, they had their moments crossing the Atlantic in April, but were quite surprised by the ferocity of the Great Lakes.
I stand by my statement, any vessel that can reliably sail the Mediterranean can sail the Atlantic...

Once again, it seems that you lack knowledge concerning the difference of these vessels construction.
The flat bottom low to the water wide beam open deck galleys of the Mediterranean were glorified barges propelled by many oarsmen and a single square rigged sail designed for island hopping in an enclosed sea, not for open ocean.
The Viking longship was also open deck and oar powered with a single square sail, but the MAJOR difference, was the V KEEL, which counteracted the tipping forces of the wind upon the sail, and creating a smooth cut through the water.
As for that Great Lake they call "gitche-gomee", ever heard of the Edmund Fitzgerald?
As any seaman would tell you, an open deck flat bottom vessel of any kind is not designed or capable of an open ocean voyage.
Do you have a quote from Addison, Haag, Read, Gough, Baigent, Leigh, Lincoln, or anyone else that states that a Mediterranean galley of the Templar period could or made a major ocean voyage?

 

[somehiker]

Something I'm just tossing out there that seems to be missed by everyone discussing the coir. While it has been theorized that coir was used to make a french drain or as a filter to keep particles out of a french drain. It wouldn't work that way for long as it would get clogged itself.

In addition. I would never use coir in the hull of a boat. Boats were not water tight, and coir is one of the most absorbent fibers there is! I use a ridiculous amount in my green house. l am always amazed at how much and for how long it holds water, keeping things wet and heavy, if it cannot flow out over time.

You water your plants with salt water ?
Cause there's a difference.
After all, coconut palms didn't roll their seeds along the bottom of the oceans in order to spread from island to island.
I still believe the "money pit" ( as described and rendered in this drawing)..... .....was built as a pumping and filtration system to continually supply algae-free sea water via tidal action to a salt harvesting operation down in what is now the swamp. The reversal of flow as the tide went out would have back-flushed the system with each cycle, perhaps extending the usefulness of the filtration materials considerably.

 

[Caryl]

You're right, they don't. Coconuts float. As does coir, which is the shredded, processed inner portion of the hull. You are also correct the density of salt water is different than that of fresh. HOWEVER, wet is wet. I go through over two cubic yards of the stuff a season. It doesn't hold minerals, but allows them to flow through as long as there is a pathway out, which is why so many people have problems with plants purchased at shops, they don't feed them often enough, and minerals and nutrients are lost with each watering. It is too coarse a fiber to do what you propose. Although the salt harvest is interesting. There was already fresh water on the island, as there is now with natural springs that filter water through the rock.

I still wouldn't use it in the bottom of a ship/boat. That said. There are other reasons that it could be there in quanity in the 1700s-1800s, to be found later in quantity. I was used in ropes as well as rigging.

As no one will convince me of treasure unless they actually find it, I don't have any delusions that I will sway any believers in the treasure the other way.

It was just a thought I had as I was shoveling more of the stuff into the compost bins and working in some cells.