The Coconut Fibers are the Key to this hunt

[lokiblossom]

Anyone who researches a coconut this much is really got too much time on their hands.....just for giggles, ill tell you what i know

There were three documented discussions about finding coconuts here when the first explorers arrived,

They documented the fact that they were a different species than that of the Indian Ocean type, that they were more of the type that was found in Polynesia

They classified these coconuts scientifically the same as the Polynesian, saying they must have fallen into the ocean and drifted to these islands via a floating route..

What is funny is that you completely forget the experiments that the legendary Thor Heyerdahl made when traveling this route to prove the migration of these people to the area.

He carried coconuts in the saltwater laden outriggers of the lower portions of his boat to see if they would survive the salty water and then germinate on the other end. He used this as a basis for his experiments to prove migration from S America to Polynesia

He proved that there was no way to have the same genus of S American Coconuts found on the coast, to have drifted there to the islands. he found that the Native travelers brought them there when they traveled there, PROVING THEY CAME FROM THE S AMERICAN CONTINENT, or they would have found some from both the Indian ocean drifts, and the S American drifts growing in the South Pacific.

So if Thor proved that the coconuts were here when the natives carried them to the Polynesian Islands......then they weren't germinated here by the Spanish were they?

Umm, you do realize that you are talking about the Pacific coast of South America don't you? The Atlantic is where Oak Island, the Caribbean, Bermuda, and the West Indies are located. And btw, I never wrote the word Spanish in this discussion, Portuguese remember?
Researching coconuts is kind of fun isn't it?

 

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[Eldo]

Anything to prove a point that you found out that someone brought coconuts here to the americas.......? Its a moot point at this stage......

My original point was the fact that I felt that the Spanish and the Portuguese would have easy access to these sources of coconuts on Bermuda, and in the Caribbean.

We know they were already here and in plenty, on the western coast........and they were in the Caribbean as well, as they were made reference in multiple journals and log books from their journeys.

At the time these areas in the West Indies were all under the Spanish control, and were in close partnership with the Portuguese.......yes that is true that they cultivated choice specimens, but there is no proof that they brought them here to Oak Island at the time they were cultivating them. The carbon dating only gives the age of the coconut fibers. It does not verify the date they were harvested and used.

How you take off from this original point and form a theory, that makes it seem that there is confusion and mystery between these two dates (carbon dating and Portuguese Cultivation), because you think that the only people who came to the area brought their own coconuts, and that makes these dates in conflict to you?

The reason you refuse to see the facts is beyond me, but really there are no other explorers in the area, and the fact remains that the species they brought over were of the origin of the Indian Ocean variety, not the Pacific and Atlantic Variety native to the Americas

You dont think that Potatoes are native to Ireland do you?

 

[lokiblossom]

Oh Great Rishar,

don't be angry at us lesser thinkers when we have to tell you something you should already know !

You ask .....how did coconut fibers dating to that time get there Easy, the carbon dating tells you 1400 so that's when the tree produced them.......they sat around on the islands that produced them until they were collected by the Spanish and others who traveled the West Indies (you can get coconuts on Bermuda and in the Caribbean)

Is this what you wrote?....Loki

btw, the dating process begins when they were harvested or as coconuts, picked.

 

[lokiblossom]

To assume that Loki is the same as assuming that the Tomato is native to Italy because they make pasta.

Coconuts were all in and throughout these islands before you claim that they were brought here by the Spanish.

I dont think that the Spanish just dropped a few seeds and they pollinated the entire Caribbean...

nice try though.......

Coconut - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And did you write this?

Don't get upset, I'm merely trying to get this coconut thing straightened out.

 

[Eldo]

You are a waste of my time here.......I am not going to continue to argue as you derail the post continually with meaningless arguments

 

[lokiblossom]

You are a waste of my time here.......I am not going to continue to argue as you derail the post continually with meaningless arguments

Ok Eldo, I guess this is what I expected from you!

 

[Dave Rishar]

I would like to hear (see) your two explanations as to how coconut fibres dated from before 1400 got to Oak Island!

Sure!

Theory #1: they simply washed up and were eventually covered up by sand. This theory doesn't explain a large amount of them, but to date no one has shown me any solid evidence that there was ever a large amount that needed explaining.

Theory #2: someone else could have carried those fibers there. There's little solid evidence that Templars ever went there. There's overwhelming evidence that Icelanders were in the area. They would have also had access to anything from the Middle East, as they did travel to and from Constantinople during that time period. (Google "varangian guard" if you're not familiar with the term.) I'm certainly not saying that this is what happened; I'm merely admitting that it's possible, and is in fact far more likely than anyone else based on available evidence.

In the first place we are not talking about only a treasure. During the first couple of decades of the existence of the order they were searching Jerusalem for religious artifacts. Catholics love religious artifacts and there are many of these alleged relics scattered throughout Europe.

I continually use the term "treasure" because it's applicable to all theories. By "treasure," I'm using the standard definition: "a quantity of precious metals, gems, or other valuable objects." Your religious artifacts (and money, and gems, and Shakespeare's screenplays, and UFO's, and anything else that someone thinks might be buried down there) are covered quite adequately by the word "treasure."

The Templars were being hunted in most European countries which at the time 1308 did not include Scotland, but they knew it was only a matter of time before it would be back under the authority of the Church so some decided they (mostly a group from the inner circle) would strike out for the Vinland of the Vikings. Many did chose to stay in Scotland though, some even blending into the Priory at Ardchattan. And there is the legend of some Templars helping Robert the Bruce defeat a British force at Bannockburn on June 24,1314.

A legend, yes. Oak Island seems to be overflowing with them. I'll give you this, though: the idea that former Templars may have assisted Robert the Bruce is at least plausible, and isn't particularly easy to disprove.

As for Vinland though...why Vinland? What evidence is there that anyone decided this? Vinland was unsecure and teeming with hostile locals, at least according to the people that had been there. Iceland and Greenland were both extremely isolated, not subject to the whims of any king, easier to get to, and were largely populated by people that didn't even know what Templars were, let alone were on the lookout for them. They were far safer bets.

Sure, it was probably a risky voyage, but the Templars had latitude measuring devices, something the Vikings could only guess at. As a matter of fact, it was probably because of a lack of the ability to accurately determine latitude that the Vikings discovered the Canadian coast in the first place....Loki

Not at all. Have you read any of the sagas? There are numerous descriptions of how ships lost their way, and why. The big problem that they had was their sail design. They were quite innovative for the time, but their tacking performance by modern standards was awful. The result was that if the wind and currents weren't going where they wanted to go...well, then they didn't even try to go. (Note the numerous references of "waiting for favorable winds" and postponing trips for years in some cases while waiting for favorable conditions.) If conditions changed while they were underway, they usually ended up in the wrong place.

This was unfortunately the state of the art of ship propulsion at the beginning of the 14th century. Had the ships had more control over their heading, there probably would have been a lot more exploration. In fact, that's the exact scenario that played out a bit later in Europe.

Myself and many others reject the current explanations given with regard to how the pyramids were built by so called experts in the field.

You're welcome to reject them all you like. We don't know exactly how they were built and we likely never will, as the records of the details haven't survived the ages, if they'd existed in the first place. The fact of the matter is that plausible theories exist to describe them.

Did you know the great pyramid of Giza is actually eight sided?

I just finished looking at a satellite photograph of it and I only counted four. Did I miss something?

It is also perfectly aligned to true north, an architectural feat that is a challenge by modern standards.

If by "perfect," you actually meant, "within four minutes of arc," then yes, it's perfect...but you didn't, and it's not. I'm not an architect or an engineer and I can't comment on whether or not that's challenging today.

It is built with such precision that we would have a very hard time replicating it with modern technology. We are supposed to believe that it was built in twenty years by a bunch of farmers with copper tools?

Given the claims that you've been making about this period, I have some concerns about your sources. What precision are you talking about? The sides are even and I explained earlier how that could be done with four pieces of rope. The stones in the inner chambers and the facing stones were indeed fitted very well, as indeed they should have - that's what stoneworkers do for a living, and I can explain how that is done if you'd like, as I use a similar principle in some of my work - no tools required for that, in fact. The rest of the pyramid - the "fill" - was not fitted like that. The stones were cut roughly, slapped together, and the joints filled with sand and gravel to stabilize them. The use of limestone was no accident - not only was it nearby, but it can be worked with copper tools. The granite used in other sections would have indeed been a pain to work with, but there are a variety of ways in which to do so that are documented. It was a laborious process, but they had decades in which to accomplish it.

This was not their first pyramid; they would have had a pretty good idea of how the whole process worked by this one. This was not one big gang of unskilled laborers running nilly-willy across Egypt. The quarry guys were quarrying, the "farmers" were hauling material and probably doing some rough shaping, the stone workers were doing the fine shaping and overseeing the fitting, etc. Specialists did exist back then, and all evidence points to this being a very organized job. This pyramid was larger than the earlier ones, but besides that, it was just another pyramid. They knew what was needed, who was needed, and where they would get all of that before they even started.

How can you not be skeptical of that theory Dave? You claim to be very analytical. How can you not see the problems in that story? Is it because you have placed your trust in the established institutions of our time?

I try to find the simple and mundane answer, as that's usually the correct one in my experience. Also, I suspect that we're working from slightly different sources of information.

Universities do not encourage creative thinking. You are never allowed to stray outside their box. Even when the truth lies outside that box.

There is a high probability that much of our accepted history is a load of crap.

Much? I'm not sure about that. Some? Certainly.

Oh Great Rishar

You may speak, supplicant.

don't be angry at us lesser thinkers when we have to tell you something you should already know !

I'm never angry when someone presents facts that fly in the face of my earlier beliefs. This gives me the ability to change those beliefs to a more correct form, and I like being correct.

You ask .....how did coconut fibers dating to that time get there Easy, the carbon dating tells you 1400 so that's when the tree produced them.......they sat around on the islands that produced them until they were collected by the Spanish and others who traveled the West Indies (you can get coconuts on Bermuda and in the Caribbean)

I believe that I asked that in the sense of how they physically got there. I no longer dispute the results of the carbon tests, now that I know that the most recent ones were done correctly. So what do those tests tell us? They tell us that around 1400 AD, the coconuts that those fibers came from fell off their respective trees. The fact that those fibers were later found on Oak Island tells us just that - that somehow those fibers got to Oak Island. They tell us nothing about how they actually got there. In that sense, your last sentence is incorrect. We can draw on other evidence (if it exists) to try to figure out how those fibers got there, but the fibers and the tests tell us nothing about this.

I ask......how long will a dried coconut lay around on an island before it degrades completely........?

I asked this question much earlier in one of these threads and I don't recall that we ever figured it out. I did read about mesh ground covers made of this stuff lasting for twenty or thirty years. It's undoubtedly very durable for a plant-based material. Will it last for a few centuries underwater or in mud? I can't tell you that, but I suppose that it would depend on factors that in some cases aren't fully understood and/or can't be accurately modelled.

Well Dave, Looks like the coconut coir was older than the people who placed it there were at the time....so...guess they can stick around for quite a while on those uninhabited islands they were collected from........even lasting underground without biodegrading for at least 200 yrs in a soggy and salty environment.....thats amazing.......so that means the fibers could last on a dried island where they were collected for almost a 1000 yrs, and I am assuming that to collect that much (3.5 tons) coir they were obviously picking up every one left there on the island, not just the fresh ones....

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. If you're saying that they cherry-picked their samples from a much larger mass because they were identifiable as fibers, then how do we know that the rest of it was also fibers?

Hell, how did they know how much it weighed unless they dug it all up? And if they dug it all up, where'd it go? Where's the hole?

so its obvious you wont even try to figure out what is going on and you are just asserting a negative point of view on the whole island, or you cannot form any reason out of the facts presented.

That's not exactly it. A lot of people here are trying to figure out what's going on; I'm trying to figure out whether anything has gone on at all. Once I've established that something has gone on, then I'll try to figure out what it is. Many people seem to have skipped that initial step.

i am guessing you haven't found any treasure on the island and this negativity is the resulting frustration??

LOL

Let's try something new and look at it logically: every recovery effort made on Oak Island during our lives has been documented. The people involved are not mysteries. During your extensive research into this, did my name turn up? LOL. (Okay, I didn't actually laugh out loud, but I did smirk wryly. )

The Great Rishar said:

Try this one on for size........

Oak Island was originally discovered by St.Brendan the Navigator, from Ireland, who coined the area.......Hy'Brasil, and later discovered by John Cabot as he made his voyages here as well

I'll be your huckleberry.

Was this the island that was actually a whale, or the island of blacksmiths that threw slag at him, or the island with the birds that sing psalms, or the island with Judas sitting on it, or the island with the dog and the Ethopian devil on it, or the island...well, you get the picture. The problem with using Brendan's story as evidence supporting Oak Island is that you have to discredit the obvious legends first, and when you throw those out there's very little left. Your selectiveness doesn't end there either, apparently. As I understand it, Hy-brasil/Brasil/St. Brendan's Isle was first written about by Barino, who mentioned rivers that teemed with fish and mountains. Whether or not this island ever really existed, we can safely rule out Oak Island...or do you want to throw that part out as well?

If that island was real, Iceland fits the description far better - endless days (from being just inside the Arctic Circle), forests, lots of animals, rivers, mountains, etc. Even the volcano story fits. Oak Island? Not so much.

As for Cabot, claiming that he definitely "discovered" Oak Island is a bit disingenuous, don't you think?

 

[Old Silver]

Sure!

Theory #1: they simply washed up and were eventually covered up by sand. This theory doesn't explain a large amount of them, but to date no one has shown me any solid evidence that there was ever a large amount that needed explaining.

Theory #2: someone else could have carried those fibers there. There's little solid evidence that Templars ever went there. There's overwhelming evidence that Icelanders were in the area. They would have also had access to anything from the Middle East, as they did travel to and from Constantinople during that time period. (Google "varangian guard" if you're not familiar with the term.) I'm certainly not saying that this is what happened; I'm merely admitting that it's possible, and is in fact far more likely than anyone else based on available evidence.

If you have more than one theory, then I guess you're not to confident in either one of them, huh. I guess that's why you use the words, "could have." I would say one theory is no more fact than another, wouldn't you?

 

[Old Silver]

I think we'd all better leave Dave Rishar alone. After all, ya gotta respect a man who's figured out how to build the Great Pyramid, and that with nothing but 4 pieces of rope.

Dave, those stones have been examined by professionals, using modern tools, and determined to have been cut with such precision that ONLY modern type tools/machinery could have done it. They've even identified tooling marks, that could be made only by modern type machinery. We simply don't have the ability to build what those people built in the ancient world. And no, it wasn't don't by E.T.

 

[Eldo]

Wow so much useful info about coconuts

View attachment 1092319

 

[lokiblossom]

Sure!
Theory #1: they simply washed up and were eventually covered up by sand. This theory doesn't explain a large amount of them, but to date no one has shown me any solid evidence that there was ever a large amount that needed explaining.
Theory #2: someone else could have carried those fibers there. There's little solid evidence that Templars ever went there. There's overwhelming evidence that Icelanders were in the area. They would have also had access to anything from the Middle East, as they did travel to and from Constantinople during that time period. (Google "varangian guard" if you're not familiar with the term.) I'm certainly not saying that this is what happened; I'm merely admitting that it's possible, and is in fact far more likely than anyone else based on available evidence.
I continually use the term "treasure" because it's applicable to all theories. By "treasure," I'm using the standard definition: "a quantity of precious metals, gems, or other valuable objects." Your religious artifacts (and money, and gems, and Shakespeare's screenplays, and UFO's, and anything else that someone thinks might be buried down there) are covered quite adequately by the word "treasure."

A legend, yes. Oak Island seems to be overflowing with them. I'll give you this, though: the idea that former Templars may have assisted Robert the Bruce is at least plausible, and isn't particularly easy to disprove.

As for Vinland though...why Vinland? What evidence is there that anyone decided this? Vinland was unsecure and teeming with hostile locals, at least according to the people that had been there. Iceland and Greenland were both extremely isolated, not subject to the whims of any king, easier to get to, and were largely populated by people that didn't even know what Templars were, let alone were on the lookout for them. They were far safer bets.
Not at all. Have you read any of the sagas? There are numerous descriptions of how ships lost their way, and why. The big problem that they had was their sail design. They were quite innovative for the time, but their tacking performance by modern standards was awful. The result was that if the wind and currents weren't going where they wanted to go...well, then they didn't even try to go. (Note the numerous references of "waiting for favorable winds" and postponing trips for years in some cases while waiting for favorable conditions.) If conditions changed while they were underway, they usually ended up in the wrong place.
This was unfortunately the state of the art of ship propulsion at the beginning of the 14th century. Had the ships had more control over their heading, there probably would have been a lot more exploration. In fact, that's the exact scenario that played out a bit later in Europe.
I believe that I asked that in the sense of how they physically got there. I no longer dispute the results of the carbon tests, now that I know that the most recent ones were done correctly. So what do those tests tell us? They tell us that around 1400 AD, the coconuts that those fibers came from fell off their respective trees.

When I had said that detractors are needed, I had meant honest detractors who attempt to keep widely fantastic theorys in check. Not detractors who skew facts so to speak, and ignore solid research. Perhaps you only missed the fact that the dating of the fibres is not 1400 AD, but from 1260 to 1400 AD. This range is important as it places the date of 1330 in the center as near the most likely date. Of course there is also the stated 95% of accuracy.

With these dates and the "fact" that coconuts did not appear in the Atlantic Basin (that means anywhere) before 1500 AD, as we have already established on this thread your first possibility becomes implausible.
Your second possibility also becomes somewhat implausible as any trading that would have occurred between Northern Europeans and the Eastern Mediterranean was far to early to have put coconut fibres on Oak Island during that period.
Even beyond that this trading was unlikely anyhow as the trading routes simply followed the Volga to the Caspian Sea and the area around it. As for your Varangian Guard, they were immigrants not traders. I will say this is still a possibility even though remote.

As for the Templars, they are known to have left Cyprus in 1307 (only 23 years prior to our central date), after having been in the Eastern Mediterranean area for some two hundred years, bound for France with what you will only call treasure, but I will add important religious objects (I hope adding that doesn't muddy the water). They are also known to have left France that same year and disappeared. I premise to Scotland (which you don't seem to have any problem with) and then to Nova Scotia, which I call the area of the Vikings Vinland.
Hostile 1st Nations People: I don't think so, they could be hostile or not which has been proven by other first contact explorers.
As for my statement that a general lack of latitude sailing ability perhaps led to the discovery of North America, maybe you didn't read the part of the Saga's that mention how a land to the west of Greenland was discovered. And I did not say that is what happened, only that it was a possibility, so please don't make too much of an argument out of that. I do thank you for the discussion....Loki

 

[Crow]

Here is some things that may be of interest?





To me there is a logical questions hanging over the identification of the material and questions calling into question the inaccuracies of such carbon dating of the alleged material as stand alone evidence.

Hardly constitutes conclusive evidence

Crow

 

[lokiblossom]

Here is some things that may be of interest?

View attachment 1092343

View attachment 1092345

To me there is a logical questions hanging over the identification of the material and questions calling into question the inaccuracies of such carbon dating of the alleged material as stand alone evidence.

Hardly constitutes conclusive evidence

Crow

I do have all of those plus a few more. As they did the test in past years there were questions as to its identity, but each time the results came back in the same ballpark. Maybe you are not aware of the recent SEM and C-14 test done last year by the current owners. The SEM was used against a known sample identified as coconut fibre and was deemed the same material. The C-14 test dated it at from 1260 to 1400 AD....Loki

 

[Dave Rishar]

If you have more than one theory, then I guess you're not to confident in either one of them, huh. I guess that's why you use the words, "could have." I would say one theory is no more fact than another, wouldn't you?

Or the question is simple enough to have multiple possible answers. As I said, I don't think that we can ever know for sure exactly which method was used, but if we can come up with multiple methods that could have worked...

I think we'd all better leave Dave Rishar alone. After all, ya gotta respect a man who's figured out how to build the Great Pyramid, and that with nothing but 4 pieces of rope.

If you're only going to skim my posts, you may not want to respond to them. Nice sidestep in any event.

Dave, those stones have been examined by professionals, using modern tools, and determined to have been cut with such precision that ONLY modern type tools/machinery could have done it. They've even identified tooling marks, that could be made only by modern type machinery. We simply don't have the ability to build what those people built in the ancient world. And no, it wasn't don't by E.T.

Cite sources, please.

Wow so much useful info about coconuts

View attachment 1092319

LOL. There are maybe two or three people on this entire site that would have gotten that joke, and I'm one of them. NERD ALERT!

 

[Dave Rishar]

When I had said that detractors are needed, I had meant honest detractors who attempt to keep widely fantastic theorys in check. Not detractors who skew facts so to speak, and ignore solid research. Perhaps you only missed the fact that the dating of the fibres is not 1400 AD, but from 1260 to 1400 AD. This range is important as it places the date of 1330 in the center as near the most likely date. Of course there is also the stated 95% of accuracy.

A century here or there is not a significant issue with carbon dating. If the exact age of the sample is that important to a particular theory, you'd be best off in not placing too much importance in the carbon dating results as it's too imprecise. If, for the sake of argument, you'd like to assume that the age of the fibers is exact down to a specific year, I'm more than willing to discuss things with that assumption.

With these dates and the "fact" that coconuts did not appear in the Atlantic Basin (that means anywhere) before 1500 AD, as we have already established on this thread your first possibility becomes implausible.
Your second possibility also becomes somewhat implausible as any trading that would have occurred between Northern Europeans and the Eastern Mediterranean was far to early to have put coconut fibres on Oak Island during that period.
Even beyond that this trading was unlikely anyhow as the trading routes simply followed the Volga to the Caspian Sea and the area around it.

I'm going to leave the coconut specifics to the coconut experts, as there seems to be some confusion in professional circles about where they originated and how they spread. I suspect that the fossil record of the plant isn't currently complete. My current position on the matter is that some of the professionals think that they originated in the Americas, so an American origin at least remains as a possibility.

Admittedly I haven't researched the coconut angle thoroughly, as I didn't consider it to be particularly important in the grand scheme of things with regards to my own thoughts about Oak Island. Is it an established fact that the origins of these coconuts are known?

As for your Varangian Guard, they were immigrants not traders. I will say this is still a possibility even though remote.

Partially true. Those immigrants did not always stay forever, though. It wasn't at all unheard of for Varangians to do some time in Constantinople and then return home. Icelanders in particular had to deal with somewhat frequent famine, and it would have made good sense to go south for a few years to make some money and gain some honor while waiting out the lean times. The ships going back would not have made the trip empty-handed, as goods that were common in Constantinople would have been quite rare (and thus valuable) in Iceland and Scandinavia. If any of that cargo was fragile, it would require dunnage to protect it.

A remote possibility? Certainly. No argument here. I don't personally think that this is what happened. I'm merely pointing out that it could have. We know that these people went to where coconuts were. We know that they went to the general area where coconut fibers were found. Likewise, we know that the Templars went to where coconuts were, but we don't know that they went to where the fibers were found. That's still a theory at this point. I only presented another theory that could explain the evidence without requiring undue speculation.

As for the Templars, they are known to have left Cyprus in 1307 (only 23 years prior to our central date), after having been in the Eastern Mediterranean area for some two hundred years, bound for France with what you will only call treasure, but I will add important religious objects (I hope adding that doesn't muddy the water). They are also known to have left France that same year and disappeared. I premise to Scotland (which you don't seem to have any problem with) and then to Nova Scotia, which I call the area of the Vikings Vinland.

Scotland is believable; of course, Portugal was closer and was even friendlier to the Templars.

Iceland was further away, Greenland even moreso. Vinland was farthest of all. Iceland and Greenland both met the mission requirements, and would have been safer and more secure. So again, why Vinland?

Hostile 1st Nations People: I don't think so, they could be hostile or not which has been proven by other first contact explorers.

Granted, as the Icelanders typically didn't deal well with non-Icelanders and at least some of their battles with the "skraelings" were likely their own fault. That having been said, any dealings that the locals had last had with Europeans would probably (and a very big PROBABLY) have last been with Icelanders, with all of the attendant oral tradition involved with how those encounters resolved - namely, with a fight. I'll admit that it's certainly possible that the right people could have engineered a peaceful encounter.

But why bother in the first place when there were easier, safer, and arguably more certain destinations?

 

[Eldo]

Here is some things that may be of interest?

View attachment 1092343

View attachment 1092345

To me there is a logical questions hanging over the identification of the material and questions calling into question the inaccuracies of such carbon dating of the alleged material as stand alone evidence.

Hardly constitutes conclusive evidence

Crow

Crow all this letter said is the Coconut Fibers were from around 1200 AD

and that the difficulties arise from Driftwood samples as they are difficult to trace.....he said the coconut fibers were "much (more) superior" as compared to driftwood

 

[KGC SENTINEL]

My 2 cents lol
Where did it come from really doesn't matter to much I would like to know why you would bring that much or any for that matter with you. I think it was as some one posted packing material to protect items in a ships hold. So if that's the case why leave it on the island if you are still sailing around. Or did the ship sink and was plundered on the shore, and if so then it still leaves the question of what and where did it go. It seems to make me think that one theory is a more possible theory. Knights Templar?

 

[lokiblossom]

Admittedly I haven't researched the coconut angle thoroughly, as I didn't consider it to be particularly important in the grand scheme of things with regards to my own thoughts about Oak Island. Is it an established fact that the origins of these coconuts are known?

Assuming that you mean in the Atlantic Basin, because an Atlantic origin is not a possibility, then,
Yes!!!

There are a few experts that believe an American origin is possible, but this would be a Pacific coast American origin. Most current research though, points to the Western Pacific.

Loki

 

[lokiblossom]

Iceland was further away, Greenland even moreso. Vinland was farthest of all. Iceland and Greenland both met the mission requirements, and would have been safer and more secure. So again, why Vinland?

You said it "Vinland was farthest of all", a new beginning far away from the Church, at least for awhile. Iceland was all Norse and Greenland had some 4000 Norse inhabitants, all in the prime areas.
Oh and lets not forget that the Norse were, by the 14th century, "Christian", and that would be Catholic Christian.
Loki

 

[New Gold]

Good work Loki. You have clearly done more research into coconuts than anyone else here.

Dave, the great pyramid is eight sided. This is only apparent from the air and only on the equinoxes.

http://themindunleashed.org/2013/06/the-great-8-sided-pyramid.html

The purpose of the design was to highlight the equinoxes... You honestly believe this was done by a civilization less advanced than us?

A quick google search of "advanced machining great pyramid" will reveal a bevy of photographic evidence suggesting whoever built the pyramids had advanced mechanical technology and know-how.

A century here or there is not a significant issue with carbon dating. If the exact age of the sample is that important to a particular theory, you'd be best off in not placing too much importance in the carbon dating results as it's too imprecise. If, for the sake of argument, you'd like to assume that the age of the fibers is exact down to a specific year, I'm more than willing to discuss things with that assumption.

Loki already stated that the carbon dated samples ranged from 1200-1400.

Carbon dating may be imprecise to a degree, but only by a hundred or so years in either direction.

The coconut fibres were dug up by the current Oak Island team in the exact spot they were supposed to be.

This is after multiple excavations of the beach.

Loki's Templar theory is set in the fourteenth century which lines up perfectly with the coconut fibres.

By itself this is not very compelling. Add in the rest of the Templar connections and it starts to get very compelling.

Templar influence in Native American culture in the area.

Templar carvings found in Yarmouth Nova Scotia.

Templar history with Scotland (and therefore potentially New Scotland)

Templar Cross in the form of Nolan's Cross.

Templar coin discovered on the island.

No other theory comes close to being as compelling as the Templar theory.