The Coconut Fibers are the Key to this hunt

[Eldo]

First, I don't like to argue against other theories, but the Templars did move their cargo in the mid 16th century as French Catholic fisherman began to show up off the shores of Oak Island. They moved whatever treasure they had left across the Islands divide to Annapolis Basin after taking apart the Fortress at Charing Cross. As I have mentioned I believe I have stood on this location and am willing to describe it as I did to "Nova Scotia Scotia Museums"...Loki

First, I don't like to argue against other theories,

But you listed your points in numerical argument to me??

but the Templars did move their cargo in the mid 16th century as French Catholic fisherman began to show up off the shores of Oak Island.

Was this because of the good fishing??

They moved whatever treasure they had left across the Islands divide to Annapolis Basin after taking apart the Fortress at Charing Cross.

For what reason? Were they fearing the lack of fish in France? Seemed pretty safe right where it was under the Fortress......right?

As I have mentioned I believe I have stood on this location and am willing to describe it as I did to "Nova Scotia Scotia Museums"...Loki

Dont think that you are the only person who can teleport back in time, OK?

 

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[Dave Rishar]

On this post , 1st page with the carbon dating.

You're referring to a post that you made here. Can you cite a source besides yourself?

EDIT: I just noticed that you posted something else below that. My apologies. Are there any photographs, or anything beyond a letter?

Yes, I'm willing to discuss the subject. And yes coconut fibres were known in the middle east during this time period, they were imported through trade with India by being used as packing for shipping as well as the rope made from these fibres called "coir".

Cite your sources, please. I'm not necessarily disagreeing, but I've found that the documentation here is questionable.

I do doubt that all the material found at Smiths Cove was coconut fibre, but the materials C-14 dated through the years all were identified as such. This last sample from 2012 was actually tested under an SEM next to a sample of known material.

I initially had doubts about the carbon dating protocol of the original samples, but it's been brought to my attention that more recent samples were taken and tested properly. I accept that coconut fibers from the time period were found there. (See? I do change my mind when I'm confronted with evidence!)

What are your doubts based on? And if it wasn't coconut fibers, what was it? Why do you think this?

As far as I know the Templar timeline works perfectly, but the Templars I believe anchored off Oak Island, did so in 1308. BTW, anchor is about all they did on Oak Island, as they built a fortress at New Ross, discovered in 1972 by Joan Hope. Scott Wolter investigated this site in 2013.

How does the Templar theory work at all, let alone perfectly?

I'm...concerned, for the lack of a better word, that you're basing your opinions on those of Ms. Hope and Mr. Wolter. I'm not sure that I would consider them to be experts in the field for a variety of reasons. Ms. Hope's book in particular is one of my biggest problems with the idea of New Ross. You did read her book, right?

It is a fact that Templars ships left Cyprus in early 1307 bound for France at the request of the Pope. They left Cyprus with 160,000 florins of gold, much silver and other treasures, as well as 60 knights, squires and probably some 240 horses and other equipment and supplies.

Is it a fact? Can you cite a source to this?

 

[Dave Rishar]

Getting a little defensive here Dave.

How so?

You may have been "trained" to pick things apart objectively at secret service skeptic school, but as Van Goeth famously said,

"Ignorant men raise questions that wise men answered a thousand years ago."

There you go, mocking again. Again, I love talking about me, but the thread is about Oak Island; if you want to discuss me, start a new thread. As for Oak Island, have I said anything provably incorrect?

I never actually attacked you at all in my post. I merely commented on the fact that no matter how hard someone tries they aren't going to convince a "true believer" he is wrong. Or a true skeptic in your case.

Or a "true believer" that's convinced that there's a treasure someplace, all evidence to the contrary. The difference between myself and those other true believers is that when I'm confronted with solid evidence, I change my opinion.

THE QUESTION From Dave was he did not know of any large amounts of coconut fibers that were dug up. I just posted a page from 1966 that shows a lot of fibers were dug up.

I saw it, and I still don't know that large amounts of coconut fibers were dug up.

If I present a letter from myself to De Beers discussing the large amounts of diamonds that I've dug up in downtown Bremerton, would you accept it as fact? I can type it up on a typewriter and scan it if you wish, but it would be far easier for everyone if I just saved it as a .txt and posted it here.

We allegedly have platforms of logs and a large amount of historic coconut fibers. The opinion presented to me in other threads here was that back in the day, this stuff would have been used as raw material; however, in 1966 this was not raw material, but historically significant evidence. They didn't build a house with it or burn it for warmth, so where did it all go?

And wait a minute...they dug up log platforms a few hundred years ago, and then they dug up MORE log platforms in 1966? How many log platforms were found in holes around there?

 

[lokiblossom]

What are your doubts based on? And if it wasn't coconut fibers, what was it? Why do you think this?



How does the Templar theory work at all, let alone perfectly?

I'm...concerned, for the lack of a better word, that you're basing your opinions on those of Ms. Hope and Mr. Wolter. I'm not sure that I would consider them to be experts in the field for a variety of reasons. Ms. Hope's book in particular is one of my biggest problems with the idea of New Ross. You did read her book, right?



Is it a fact? Can you cite a source to this?

my doubts are based on the doubts of others. All along detractors have said that they had mistakenly tested eel grass or some other substance and that most of the material found on Oak Island is not coconut
fibre.

I just posted all of this! The Templars were summoned from their Eastern Mediterranean base on Cyprus by the Pope in early 1307. de Molay was ordered not to bring very many Knights, but he brought 60. These Templar Knights do not travel lightly, each Knight would have at least three horses and a squire with a horse along with all of their equipment and the Grand Masters entourage. They also brought the Templar treasures from Cyprus, 160,000 gold florins and much silver and other treasures (Charles Addision is one source for this but there are several others including his own source).
Arriving in France at La Rochelle (I have reasons to have picked this port, one being that they had complete control of it since 1139), and already knowing of the troubles ahead (The King had sent out arrest orders throughout France at least a month before the arrests, and the Templars had many friends in high places) de Molay had the Templar treasures from Paris headquarters also brought to La Rochelle. The ships left France in September of 1307 with a few bound for Scotlands Western Highlands and Ardchattan Priory (the others went South to Portugal). They wintered at Ardcahttan (the monks at Ardchattan not knowing about the events in France), supplying and preparing there ships for a 1308 crossing of the Atlantic. The coconut fibres that were dated tell us they were being used sometime between 1260 and 1400. As I said this timeline works perfectly.

Yes, I have read Joans book (I also had many discussions with her good friend who keeps her site alive) as well as John Mcneils, and no they were not experts and neither said they were, but there is a site at Charing Cross and that cannot be denied. And I am not basing my opinions only on Joan, John and Scott Wolters work, but I believe I have collaborated much of it....Loki

BTW, Robert the Bruce had a secret meeting at Ardchattan in 1308 or 1309.

 

[Smithbrown]

How do you know Robert the Bruce had such a meeting if it was so secret?

 

[lokiblossom]

How do you know Robert the Bruce had such a meeting if it was so secret?

The subject was secret, but the meeting is well known, look it up.

 

[Smithbrown]

Do you have an actual 14th century reference?

 

[lokiblossom]

Do you have an actual 14th century reference?

No, but I use this from "The New Catholic Encyclopedia, Jan 1, 2003; Ardchattan, Priory of: A former Valliscaulian house on the shores of Loch Etive... it is known to have sworn fealty to Edward I in 1296, although Robert the Bruce held a parliament there in 1308..."

 

[joncutt87]

I was under the impression that Robert the Bruce used Templacement cavalry to turn the tide of 'The Battle of Inverurie' in May of 1308. I could be wrong though, stranger things have happened.

Correction, it was the 'Battle of Bannockburn' 23-24 June 1314

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Forgive me but I have an overwhelming urge to post to LOTUS BLOSSUM not loki blossum, sooooo ..

 

[bjw]

Scott Wolters, well we can be certain that whatever facts he proclaims will be based on assumptions made during the show!
bjw

 

[Eldo]

So there are numerous facts pending that show the presence of coconut fibers, with scientific backing in numerous tests.

Then they found Eel Grass as well......seems they were quite the farmers.......

Do you think the reason that the Island is populated with Oaks is due to the fact that someone once brought these tree seeds.....acorns, back in the times of the first norse and gaelic explorers? Leaving the first knowledge of this location mapped somewhere? The norse were such great explorers to have braved through the Volga and even into the Mediterranean through the Bosporus Straight. I would assume their dedication to their God Odin.....was something of a very close relation to nature.....so their god just happened to be associated with the Red Oak......coincidence?



Lets assume the discovery of this area, and further inland, from the Gaelic explorer, St Brendan, The Navigator was before this time due to recent explorations. He made it here first......and his Gaelic Cross is found scribed on the coast line of Nova Scotia. He left in the 6th century for America, and made it once, and then returned for a second journey from Ireland. !!! In a skin boat......whoa....
Did the Irish Discover America? Video - Exploration of North America - HISTORY.com

So not until 1000AD do the Norse come over......leaving settlements in the area

Then we have the........Legend of the Templars in the 1300's, and their Spanish allies, who chart their empire towards the new world.......

Then the French, then the British

So somewhere in between all of this historical migration and movement, someone slips in the idea that it was a fleet of Pirates........

And all of history is lost to a debunked Pirate Myth........? Over Coconut Fibers.........

The issue is someone dug a pit, and channels, and numerous other mapped locations, and clearly had intention of being here for an extended period of time......they werent the natives, were they?? Nope....they had made a huge voyage..

The facts all add up to the fact that the pit was not just a trap......as there were other elements added to the Island that were making it seem like there were visitors that had brought exotic materials.......the dates are confirmed......and the known empires that made those voyages are confirmed......the Templars, were in the area

its really better if we can all use a fully drawn out chart of some kind......the kind that has a full listing of the history of the area, and not one filled with speculation......

For example......Joan Hope was supposedly labeled 'nuts' by the many doubters for believing there was UFO activity in the area, and for hosting Hippy Commune Parties....LOL...

It turns out that the area hosted one of the largest unknown flying object crashes, and by that it was witnessed by dozens of people who called 911, police, navy from two countries, and numerous coast guard vessels were all searching for a falling object in the ocean for two or three days, that was reported in multiple areas that day before the crash.....

Thats so funny too........the Mystery of Oak Island lost to the UFO Skeptics in the bunch......LOL....its so easy to see the negativity that came from the expose of Joan Hope's work making the whole affair look shotty at best.....

 

[FinderKeeper]

OK we all saw the dye test on the TV show and that proves there are no tunnels Lets put this tunnel story to a end and move on. If there are no tunnels then what were the coconut fibers used for, ROPE . Lets try to work with this story and see were it goes.

Just another note, I hope they used the dye during the start of low tide , because the dye will just wash back into the hole at the start of high tide.

 

[Dave Rishar]

my doubts are based on the doubts of others. All along detractors have said that they had mistakenly tested eel grass or some other substance and that most of the material found on Oak Island is not coconut
fibre.

I am a detractor. I have never said this. I pointed out problems with the testing protocol of the initial samples, then I was corrected about the testing protocols of the later samples. I've since changed my stance on the issue. I accept that coconut fibers from that era were recovered from the area. I do not accept that tons of coconut fibers were recovered from that area, nor do I accept that this means that Templars, or aliens, or Romans, or anyone else necessarily put them there. I accept that what is, is, and I accept that anything else is largely speculation. I'll happily revise my point of view when others provide some evidence.

I just posted all of this! The Templars were summoned from their Eastern Mediterranean base on Cyprus by the Pope in early 1307. de Molay was ordered not to bring very many Knights, but he brought 60. These Templar Knights do not travel lightly, each Knight would have at least three horses and a squire with a horse along with all of their equipment and the Grand Masters entourage. They also brought the Templar treasures from Cyprus, 160,000 gold florins and much silver and other treasures (Charles Addision is one source for this but there are several others including his own source).

Cite your sources, please.

Arriving in France at La Rochelle (I have reasons to have picked this port, one being that they had complete control of it since 1139), and already knowing of the troubles ahead (The King had sent out arrest orders throughout France at least a month before the arrests, and the Templars had many friends in high places) de Molay had the Templar treasures from Paris headquarters also brought to La Rochelle. The ships left France in September of 1307 with a few bound for Scotlands Western Highlands and Ardchattan Priory (the others went South to Portugal). They wintered at Ardcahttan (the monks at Ardchattan not knowing about the events in France), supplying and preparing there ships for a 1308 crossing of the Atlantic. The coconut fibres that were dated tell us they were being used sometime between 1260 and 1400. As I said this timeline works perfectly.

Cite your sources, please.

Yes, I have read Joans book (I also had many discussions with her good friend who keeps her site alive) as well as John Mcneils, and no they were not experts and neither said they were, but there is a site at Charing Cross and that cannot be denied. And I am not basing my opinions only on Joan, John and Scott Wolters work, but I believe I have collaborated much of it....Loki

Anyone can sign up for a forum and claim whatever they like, but that's not the same as...well, I think that you meant corroborating here, but collaboration works too, I suppose. If you actually meant collaboration, forget what I just said and consider me to be in concurrence.

BTW, Robert the Bruce had a secret meeting at Ardchattan in 1308 or 1309.

Cite your sources, please.

 

[lokiblossom]

I am a detractor. I have never said this. I pointed out problems with the testing protocol of the initial samples, then I was corrected about the testing protocols of the later samples. I've since changed my stance on the issue. I accept that coconut fibers from that era were recovered from the area. I do not accept that tons of coconut fibers were recovered from that area, nor do I accept that this means that Templars, or aliens, or Romans, or anyone else necessarily put them there. I accept that what is, is, and I accept that anything else is largely speculation. I'll happily revise my point of view when others provide some evidence.



Cite your sources, please.



Cite your sources, please.



Anyone can sign up for a forum and claim whatever they like, but that's not the same as...well, I think that you meant corroborating here, but collaboration works too, I suppose. If you actually meant collaboration, forget what I just said and consider me to be in concurrence.



Cite your sources, please.

Dave, you must realize that you are not the only detractor, and my statement is that not all of the material found is coconut fibre. In other words, there is not as much of this material as some believe.

I supplied the sources on the first statement within the statement, ie, Charles Addison, along with his own sources. Charles Addison, "History of the Knights Templar", Addison's source, The Museum of Foreign Literature and Science, History of The Knights Templar" pg 395, vol xv July to Dec 1829.

As for the sources on the second statement, I can begin with a charter of 1139 by Eleanor of Aquitaine, Queen of France, who in this document basically gives full control of the Port of La Rochelle to the Templars. This one is on line and you can look it up if you wish. As for the Scottish connections, I will hold my sources for several reasons, first, It is important to know that the templars did go somewhere, if a person hasn't come to that conclusion discussing Scotland would be a waste of time. second, the Curse of Oak Island from the History Channel is airing some of the Scottish connections next week and I am interested in how right they get it (they havn't got much right yet), and third, I am in the process of getting a book published on all of this and some of that may let the cat out of the bag, so to speak.

For the third statement on the 1308 meeting at Ardchattan, I gave one of my sources, and typed it out on pg. 6 of this topic, yesterday, Dec 9 at 1:57pm.

I don't mind detractors, we need them to keep things honest....Loki

 

[uzzard]

Dennis King's article on the "Finger Drains"

Here is some darn good reading about the 5 finger trenches coming from Smith's Cove...........in this he says they used 2" of coconut fibers which is an acceptable amount to make the 3 1/2 ton of fibers thrown around often certainly feasible.

It does put the booby trap flood tunnels to bed though........which I don't think serious theories contained the flood tunnels anyhow.

What I really like is how this guy changed his theory and fully admits he was wrong after the Dunfield reports became available...........there are lots of people that need to alter their theories to fit the evidence rather then change the evidence to fit their theory.

@ finderskepers

did you take a look at this link?..........this seems to make a lot of sense to me and fits much better with the 3 1/2 ton of fibers that you yourself claimed were found.

I can not understand why they would bury fibers in a long narrow trench when they planned to retrieve them later for rope....wouldn't a more condensed type of hole make it much easier for later removal?

 

[Eldo]

AHHHHH thank you Uzzard for this reference........

That makes me think that because the tunnels were there, and were documented, that the drains were used for water desalination, and the extraction of salt as well, burnt in the stone foundation.......

the stone foundation nobody seems to be told about on the History Channel........if there is one piece of evidence being covered up to make it seem like a treasure trove, this would be it.....the stone foundation proves they were collecting, and making fresh water and/or salt in mass.

I believe that Finder's Keepers had mentioned that they had used the Coffer Dam area for the rope soaking procedure, using the water collection pool inside the cove, where they found the fibers on the beach under rocks.......not to speak for him, but he truly had mentioned this area as his point of reference for the rope making.

 

[New Gold]

Eldo this theory of the box drains being used to filter salt from sea water sounds highly implausible to me. Even if the coir fibres managed to grab ahold of all the tiny dissolved salt particles, surely they would become clogged with salt, which would require maintenance i.e. digging up the beach over and over again.

 

[Robot]

The Freemason's Design of the Flood Tunnels were Ingenious to "Say The Least"



The engineer John Whitney Lewis during his mid 20th Century excavations did physically view and record what he stated to be water trap tunnels.

His detailed drawings shows how he supposed how these tunnels were designed and what were their size and make up.




The dimensions of this (3'10" wide and 6'4" high) circular tunnel corresponds with dimensions used by 18th Century Cornish Tin Miner's tunnels.

His statement of locating a soft Blue Clay within this tunnel supports the design of James Brindley (1716-1772).

James Brindley was a master engineer and associate of the Freemasons in Britain, who used the technique of “puddling” for the construction of canals and latter for dams.
Puddling is the process of lining a channel with puddle clay to create a watertight barrier.
Puddle clay can be described as (blue clay) which was found in abundance within the Money Pit Shaft and these Tunnels.
Blue clay is not indigenous to Oak Island and no previous explanation as to its purpose for being there has been explained.

His statement of locating Hemlock Wood Beams for the walls in this tunnel support how the Freemasons overcame the destruction of any wood supports by the notorious "Shipworm".



The Freemasons were aware of the massive destruction to any other type of wood located in saltwater, as they had to scrape their wooden vessels at least twice a year to rid them of this pest.

"The T. navalis abundance in the Welsh harbor of Sebastopol was once so great as to cause the destruction of submerged ship timbers in just eight years on average."

They knew they could not construct their shafts and tunnels with anything but Hemlock wood, Eelgrass, Coconut fiber and with a mixture of Blue Clay and Ash to hold the walls together.

 

[New Gold]

Atta boy Robot.