The Coconut Fibers are the Key to this hunt

[Dave Rishar]

Hi Dave, There was 3 1/2 tons of coconut fibers found in the 1960s, its on paper with the carbon dates I posted. The fibers were found in a 145'long trench at Smith Cove 2' deep covered with stone

.

These things are coming too quickly for me to keep up with. My apologies for multiple responses.

Where was that paper posted?

 

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[FinderKeeper]

On this post , 1st page with the carbon dating.

These things are coming too quickly for me to keep up with. My apologies for multiple responses.

Where was that paper posted?

 

[FinderKeeper]

OK were did everyone go Hello

 

[Eldo]

Lol.....they all packed up till the next Season Two Episode.....


....>To be continued

 

[lokiblossom]

Was it known that they left with coir?

Was coir typically used as dunnage in that region, at that time?

Was it known exactly what they left with?

Was it known where those treasures were offloaded?

Is it known just how much coir is under the beach?

Is this coir connected with a possible buried treasure, or was it brought by someone else?

If this was done by Templars circa 1307, does the timeline work out? (Note that some of the Templar "evidence" may have to be thrown out in order for this to work, which in turn means that the theory may collapse...)

As always, we're left with an abundance of speculation and a dearth of actual facts. That's just what I'm saying, and what I've always been saying, and what I'll continue to say until solid evidence or a treasure (which I suppose is pretty solid evidence!) turn up. Once something does turn up, we should then try to figure out how it got there - not the other way around.

I'll concede that a documented find of coconut fibers (that were properly carbon dated) is extremely interesting...but then again, I've also said in the past that I believe that eastern Canada's history is more interesting than we currently know. Neither of our theories prove the existance of treasure on Oak Island. I'm leaning toward a greater Norse presence than is currently suspected.

I'll answer my second question here has a freebie, in order to explain something else. Were coconuts known in the Middle East during this time period? I think so, yes, but they weren't grown there - they were imported at some cost. It would make sense that the points of origin would use such an available and relatively inexpensive material as dunnage for shipping goods to that area, so I can believe that there may have been something of a stockpile there during that time. The question is, were there any people who were sailing to that area in the 13th century that were also sailing to the New World for certain?

The answer is yes, but as you've done your research you doubtless already know about them. I'm willing to discuss them if you'd like, although the trail becomes a bit tenuous at this point. It is a documented trail though, and speculation is only necessary in order to tie up the loose ends. We know that they went to the Middle East and we know that they went to the New World, and they did both during the same time period. I'm personally much more comfortable speculating on things when I'm basing those speculations on facts.

Yes, I'm willing to discuss the subject. And yes coconut fibres were known in the middle east during this time period, they were imported through trade with India by being used as packing for shipping as well as the rope made from these fibres called "coir". I do doubt that all the material found at Smiths Cove was coconut fibre, but the materials C-14 dated through the years all were identified as such. This last sample from 2012 was actually tested under an SEM next to a sample of known material.
As far as I know the Templar timeline works perfectly, but the Templars I believe anchored off Oak Island, did so in 1308. BTW, anchor is about all they did on Oak Island, as they built a fortress at New Ross, discovered in 1972 by Joan Hope. Scott Wolter investigated this site in 2013. If one takes a critical look at the Islands stone triangle alignment they would notice that it points to where a trail would have existed alongside the mouth of the Gold River.
It is a fact that Templars ships left Cyprus in early 1307 bound for France at the request of the Pope. They left Cyprus with 160,000 florins of gold, much silver and other treasures, as well as 60 knights, squires and probably some 240 horses and other equipment and supplies.
These same vessels left France some 30 days before the arrests of allegedly all the Knights in France. Of course from simple deduction we know that over 2500 Templars were unaccounted for as well as the ships and the treasures.
Oh, and Ardchatten Priory figures predominantly in all of this.
Yes, I would like to discuss all of this!

 

[uzzard]

On this post , 1st page with the carbon dating.

are there photos of the 2' deep 145' long trench filled with coconut fibers and covered with rocks?......since the letter is dated 1966 cameras were a pretty common item and there certainly should be some photos somewhere of such a significant find.

I can see there is confirmation of 3 out of the 4 samples being confirmed as being coconut fibers.......is there any way we can be sure what they found in the trench was not the sample that was negative...........or more importantly is there other proof somewhere as to the amount of coconut fibers found.

maybe the fibers they sent to be tested from the money pit were the ones negative ??

3 1/2 tons isn't a whole lot of material to fill in much of a ditch of that size........I have to assume that coconut fibers are not very heavy......roughly the same weight bark mulch??.......When I have time I will do a little research to find out for sure what bark mulch weighs per cubic yard and then calculate the CY in the supposed ditch size......until I do the math I won't know for sure but have a strong feeling it is going to take a lot more then 3 1/2 ton of material to even come close to filling in a ditch that you have described

 

[uzzard]

I thought the width of this trench was posted...........it wasn't .......I went back and re-read

but if it was covered with flagstone it better have been pretty small pieces because even after some quick math and using a very low estimate of the weight of coconut fibers .......this trench had to be pretty narrow for 3 1/2 ton to fill it up.

 

[FinderKeeper]

Good questions , I got the 3 1/2 ton report from the Oak Island web site years ago. Not sure if the fibers were wet when they removed them to guess the weight. I believe what I see in the report is real, there is no reason for this to be made up. I would like to see if someone comes up with something to prove this as fact or not. I just posted the report .

 

[uzzard]

well a ditch 2' wide,145' long and (1 foot wide)* is 10.74 CY..........to put this in perspective a tri-axel dump truck hauls about 10-12 CY of material

if you estimate the weight of coconut fibers at 400lbs per CY
which is the very low end of estimates for bark mulch

it would take just a bit over 2 ton to fill in a 1' wide ditch...........the math is saying it is possible but I can not grasp how in the world a full tri-axel load of darn near anything is only going to weigh 2 ton.

if you extend the width of the ditch out past 1'6'' the math makes it impossible............but if they buried the fibers at the time to retrieve them later to make rope why did they dig such a long narrow ditch rather then a big square hole?

if the fiber filled ditch was to function as some type of drain.......why so narrow?........a ditch that narrow would fill up with silt in no time at all

*The 1' width is just a number I used to work some numbers......I can not find anywhere documented the supposed width of the ditch

 

[New Gold]

As I've said in the past repeatedly, I very much believe that something is there. I don't think that it's treasure, but I'd love for that to be there as well. I merely pointed out the problems with stories. It's something that I've been trained to do.

Instead of focusing on what a horrible person I am, focus on how I'm incorrect. We're discussing opinions and theories here, not people. Or are we?

Your mocking is noted, but rest assued that I'm not offended. I'm no stranger to it. I normally interpret ad hominem attacks as proof that my position is solid and has been adequately explained, so that mission may have finally been accomplished. When you're ready to shift your focus from my character to my argument, I'm ready to continue discussing it.

Getting a little defensive here Dave. You may have been "trained" to pick things apart objectively at secret service skeptic school, but as Van Goeth famously said,

"Ignorant men raise questions that wise men answered a thousand years ago."

I never actually attacked you at all in my post. I merely commented on the fact that no matter how hard someone tries they aren't going to convince a "true believer" he is wrong. Or a true skeptic in your case.

I don't care what side of the fence you are on, I'm not gonna attack you personally. I am aware by now that you are a resident skeptic and devil's advocate. If it stimulates interest and conversation then I'm all for it Rishar! Stir the pot buddy

 

[Old Silver]

well a ditch 2' wide,145' long and (1 foot wide)* is 10.74 CY..........to put this in perspective a tri-axel dump truck hauls about 10-12 CY of material

if you estimate the weight of coconut fibers at 400lbs per CY
which is the very low end of estimates for bark mulch

it would take just a bit over 2 ton to fill in a 1' wide ditch...........the math is saying it is possible but I can not grasp how in the world a full tri-axel load of darn near anything is only going to weigh 2 ton.

if you extend the width of the ditch out past 1'6'' the math makes it impossible............but if they buried the fibers at the time to retrieve them later to make rope why did they dig such a long narrow ditch rather then a big square hole?

if the fiber filled ditch was to function as some type of drain.......why so narrow?........a ditch that narrow would fill up with silt in no time at all

*The 1' width is just a number I used to work some numbers......I can not find anywhere documented the supposed width of the ditch

I would think Coconut fibers would be 10 times lighter than bark mulch. Get some of each and weigh it out. But that wouldn't help anything, as you are already convinced you are right.

 

[diggummup]

well a ditch 2' wide,145' long and (1 foot wide)* is 10.74 CY..........to put this in perspective a tri-axel dump truck hauls about 10-12 CY of material

if you estimate the weight of coconut fibers at 400lbs per CY
which is the very low end of estimates for bark mulch

it would take just a bit over 2 ton to fill in a 1' wide ditch...........the math is saying it is possible but I can not grasp how in the world a full tri-axel load of darn near anything is only going to weigh 2 ton.

if you extend the width of the ditch out past 1'6'' the math makes it impossible............but if they buried the fibers at the time to retrieve them later to make rope why did they dig such a long narrow ditch rather then a big square hole?

if the fiber filled ditch was to function as some type of drain.......why so narrow?........a ditch that narrow would fill up with silt in no time at all

*The 1' width is just a number I used to work some numbers......I can not find anywhere documented the supposed width of the ditch

The "ditch" was supposedly 2 foot wide, 2 foot deep and 145 feet long making the total 21.48 CY's. That's what the letter posted on the first page says anyway.

 

[uzzard]

The "ditch" was supposedly 2 foot wide, 2 foot deep and 145 feet long making the total 21.48 CY's. That's what the letter posted on the first page says anyway.

just re-read that paper again............I see 2 feet of coconut fibers......2 feet of rock and 145 feet long.......unless I am badly overlooking something I can not see a width
I also don't see 3 and 1/2 ton written anywhere on any of these documents.....I can see "large amount"

Finders keepers said that 3 1/2 ton of fibers were found in this trench per the papers he posted..........he has recently changed that to the 3 1/2 ton came from a web site basically making the whole last few posts moot anyhow

 

[FinderKeeper]

THE QUESTION From Dave was he did not know of any large amounts of coconut fibers that were dug up. I just posted a page from 1966 that shows a lot of fibers were dug up. So what if it was 3 1/2 tons or 1 ton, who cares a lot of fibers were found and that's my point. I don't think the fibers were there for a drain or tunnel but placed there for 1yr to make rope. If you read what it takes to make the fiber into rope it all fits. The coffer dam in Smith Cove was built for this reason. It was what was needed for the fibers to set in and the dam would protect the fibers. You can still go with the tunnel or drain story but in time this will be proven to be the right story.

 

[Eldo]

I'm sure anything soaking wet and soggy will have extra weight.......

maybe the number they used was based on a volume standard of another material and they just said, 3 1/2 tons........

they could have been exaggerating their estimates is all I am saying, but it does seem to be listed in both online webpages, and in documents, that the amount was this #

Thats a Ton of Fibers

Why didn't they just use corn like the guy said they were supposed to ? Too corny I guess

 

[lokiblossom]

The answer is yes, but as you've done your research you doubtless already know about them. I'm willing to discuss them if you'd like,

?

 

[Robot]

How can one contest the many Affidavits as to the amount of Coconut Fiber found!

Dr. Lynds had noticed many years before that the beach on Smith’s Cove seemed to have been leveled off unnaturally. Searching for the source of the sea water the company stripped off the sand and gravel on this beach for a distance of 145 feet. Rounded boulders were found under the surface, and beneath them a two foot layer of eel-grass extending from the high to low tide marks.

And under the eel-grass was more of the coconut fibre, tons and tons of it. More excavation located the entrances to five channels descending and converging toward a point back of the beach; these were filled with loose stones. This antique plumbing served to carry the water into one main tunnel which led in the direction of the Money Pit. Specimens of this coconut fibre can still be found on the island. The purpose of the builder of this system of drains can only be fathomed by considering the effect of his work. He was not so foolish as to dig a straight hole from the ocean to the treasure pit. The rush of water through it at high tide might cause it to be choked with sand or collapse. He wanted a steady, even flow of filtered water from the sea which would drown out trespassers digging in the Money Pit. At high tide the water is absorbed by the coconut fibre like a huge blotter. If the bottom of the drain in the Money Pit is uncovered the coconut fibre discharges its store of liquid into the hole until the pressure is equalized. Twice a day the “blotter” is replenished by the tide. The flow of water has been calculated to be as much as eight hundred gallons a minute.
1953 by Penn Leary

 

[uzzard]

"a large amount"..........3 1/2 ton..............and now Robot says "tons and tons"
if it is so well documented why is there so much of a variance in everyone that posts answer?

I know one thing and math will back up the fact that 3 and 1/2 ton of fibers is not going to be remotely close enough to fill in a trench that robot describes above with a 2' layer.....if you can't understand why the amount of fibers found might be important then good luck to you trying to figure out some of the more complex puzzles involved with this island.

it is simple ..............if they only found 3 1/2 ton of fibers and they were laid in this this trench 2' deep X 145' long it had be be very,very narrow......even if they were bone dry when weighed to get the 3 and 1/2 ton.What this means is huge boulders or big pieces of flagstone could not have been placed over a fiber lined trench that is being described.

something is not adding up correctly .....either the trench size is not correct or the amount of fibers is wrong.

it seems each person is using an amount to fit with whatever their theory is

 

[FinderKeeper]

Lots of questions OK so why not put the fibers in the swamp water for 1 yr to make rope instead of building the trench this is something I tried to figure out and it looks like the fibers must be placed in slow moving water or maybe the fibers would mess up their drinking water in the swamp . Until I see proof of tunnels or drains in the Smith Cove area I believe they were put there to make rope. If there are tunnels its easy to locate them back then and now with Radar and other equipment. They can't be down that deep say 5' to 10' along the cove area. So why don't we see any radar reports on the hunt for the tunnels I do think there is a tunnel from the swamp to the dig sites.

 

[Eldo]

Rope was made from Hemp, and Horse Hair for the best ropes......Coir is the least useful in making ropes.....

not that you couldn't braid it for ropes, but I am sure that there were better fibers around then to make rope from.......

The sponge hole filler idea I think is way off. They could just plug it all with clay and remove it all after the dig, working much better. The coconut fibers were placed in the area as a layer to remove the clay from. Placing the fibers on the bottom layers, the clay was added on the top to make the layer waterproof, and then to be used so the layer of clay could be easily removed from the area, leaving a small layer of fibers. The fibers were used to keep the bottom later of clay together and were made to be the base layer of the Drain plugs in South Cove and Smiths Cove.

If used to make ropes it would also reconfirm that the Templars were here making ships to sail to the many areas they were allied with. Their are numerous inlets cut in the surrounding islands, to appear like ship dry docks, or ports. This would coincide with the coconut fibers......

You wont find much of the drains left.....they dynamited the whole island around the pit to cut off the area to the tunnels.