The Answer Rest Here

[ECS]

“I recommended to Mr. Hall, Mr. Campbell, Mr. Sherman, and those of Bolivar to keep to our promise and distribute the gold to the indicated places.” This was in the spring of 1821, several months in advance of the last Beale Deposit.

Mr. Sherman, WAS, Mathew “Mexico” Sherman, the uncle of John Sherman, the job print's editor and J. B. Ward's cousin, the pamphlet's acting representative.

...and you have solid evidence outside of Laflin's forged memoirs that will confirm this?

 

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[ECS]

"Scoop", if YOU have the info, already... SHOW IT! It just "sounds" like YOU want OUR R & I to "PROVE" YOUR theory...

You may have a point.
He has thrown out many names at random without explaining their relation to the Beale Papers.
Examples:
John Taylor of Caroline
John Randolph of Roanoke
The mystery exile in Brazil
Thomas Hart "Old Bullion" Benton
...or for that matter, the relation to Laflin's forged Lafitte memoirs.

 

[bigscoop]

This morning I sat atop a forested ridge with my movie camera, below me a running stream and across the way a brush-filled bottom. It was an absolutely beautiful morning, quite and brisk, the squirrels at play in the oaks overhead, the sun's rays slowly creeping in. At about 8:30am I spotted a mink emerging on the opposite bank of the stream, and then another and another until there were eight of them, the camera now filming the event. As I watched these mink swimming and diving about in an eddy the thought occurred to me, "Would this be called, a herd?" Didn't sound right to me, "a herd of mink?" However, if it had been eight moose it would have been a herd, for sure, I think? But what about eight wolves, that would be a pack. Eight ducks would be a flock, I suppose? Maybe these eight mink would just be called a group? What do you think? I like, herd, but herd just makes them sound larger then life, for some reason. They were swimming, so perhaps, a school? Just can't seem to wrap my head around it.

 

[bigscoop]

You may have a point.
He has thrown out many names at random without explaining their relation to the Beale Papers.
Examples:
John Taylor of Caroline
John Randolph of Roanoke
The mystery exile in Brazil
Thomas Hart "Old Bullion" Benton
...or for that matter, the relation to Laflin's forged Lafitte memoirs.

John Taylor, John Randolph, not sure what you're referencing here?
South America, for a spell your Mexican government was functioning from here.
Benton had certain relations in St. Louis, the depth of these relations is still uncertain.
Forged memoirs is still a matter of open debate. Do your due diligence and hold some of those face to face for yourself before you latch 100% onto internet resources and take it as gospel. You might be surprised what you learn.

For starters, might i suggest that you read The Pirates Laffite, by Davis, as he is very good at referencing his source materials, from here you can study those materials for yourself and also their histories. This should get you started.

 

[bigscoop]

This morning I sat atop a forested ridge with my movie camera, below me a running stream and across the way a brush-filled bottom. It was an absolutely beautiful morning, quite and brisk, the squirrels at play in the oaks overhead, the sun's rays slowly creeping in. At about 8:30am I spotted a mink emerging on the opposite bank of the stream, and then another and another until there were eight of them, the camera now filming the event. As I watched these mink swimming and diving about in an eddy the thought occurred to me, "Would this be called, a herd?" Didn't sound right to me, "a herd of mink?" However, if it had been eight moose it would have been a herd, for sure, I think? But what about eight wolves, that would be a pack. Eight ducks would be a flock, I suppose? Maybe these eight mink would just be called a group? What do you think? I like, herd, but herd just makes them sound larger then life, for some reason. They were swimming, so perhaps, a school? Just can't seem to wrap my head around it.

Maybe a swarm? Possibly an assembly? A contingent, perhaps? Sometimes things can be sooooo confusing. Of course, I could just take the easy way out and call them a bunch, I suppose. Anybody know if there are any physical/numerical limitations for applying the word bunch to a lot of mink who all appear in the same place at once?

 

[ECS]

...
"Opposition to the bank's revival emanated from two interests. Old Republicans, represented by John Taylor of Caroline and John Randolph of Roanoke[SUP][35][/SUP] characterized the Second Bank of the United States as both constitutionally illegitimate and a direct threat to Jeffersonian agrarianism, state sovereignty and the institution of slavery, expressed by Taylor's statement that "...if Congress could incorporate a bank, it might emancipate a slave" ...

Have you thrown so many names out that you need program to tell who is who?

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Maybe a swarm? Possibly an assembly? A contingent, perhaps? Sometimes things can be sooooo confusing. Of course, I could just take the easy way out and call them a bunch, I suppose. Anybody know if there are any physical/numerical limitations for applying the word bunch to a lot of mink who all appear in the same place at once?

"Google" COLONY of Minks... HH! Good Luck!

 

[ECS]

These two have boxes full of names and places and I'm not keeping up on all the theories...good stuff though.

The Beale Papers is a straightforward written story for the expressed purpose to sell to the localized Lynchburg public. Morriss is validated in the story by naming former guests, a minister, three soldiers, and a Chief Justice, and the local businessman who owned the Morriss home in 1885, a former Confederate soldier; names that would be known to the buying customers of 1885 Lynchburg.
Then the places named, Bedford county, Buford's Tavern, and the Washington Hotel, all locations that are also known to 1885 Lynchburg.
A localized western/treasure dime novel with ciphers added as a parlor entertainment advertised and sold to a localized consumer.
No extra names or events required.

 

[bigscoop]

Have you thrown so many names out that you need program to tell who is who?

No....just asking for those references you're quoting from?

 

[bigscoop]

The Beale Papers is a straightforward written story for the expressed purpose to sell to the localized Lynchburg public. Morriss is validated in the story by naming former guests, a minister, three soldiers, and a Chief Justice, and the local businessman who owned the Morriss home in 1885, a former Confederate soldier; names that would be known to the buying customers of 1885 Lynchburg.
Then the places named, Bedford county, Buford's Tavern, and the Washington Hotel, all locations that are also known to 1885 Lynchburg.
A localized western/treasure dime novel with ciphers added as a parlor entertainment advertised and sold to a localized consumer.
No extra names or events required.

And so now we're back to the pot calling the kettle black, yet again. I'm still waiting on that conclusive "Ward was the author" document, let alone all of the other conclusive evidence in support of this summary that doesn't exist. Even hypocrisy has limits, you know.

 

[bigscoop]

The Beale Papers is a straightforward written story for the expressed purpose to sell to the localized Lynchburg public. Morriss is validated in the story by naming former guests, a minister, three soldiers, and a Chief Justice, and the local businessman who owned the Morriss home in 1885, a former Confederate soldier; names that would be known to the buying customers of 1885 Lynchburg.
Then the places named, Bedford county, Buford's Tavern, and the Washington Hotel, all locations that are also known to 1885 Lynchburg.
A localized western/treasure dime novel with ciphers added as a parlor entertainment advertised and sold to a localized consumer.
No extra names or events required.

Your summation is consistent with all of the local lore and romance attached to the story, I'll hand you that much. Of course your conclusive source materials only exist in thin air but that too is also consistent with all of the local lore and romance attached to the tale. Is there anything, anything at all, that you can present as conclusive supporting evidence in support of your conclusion other then local lore and romance? For instance, what source materials do you have that positively identify Clay, Coles, Witcher, and Jackson? What source materials do you have that suggest that Ward was capable of even writing the story? I'm betting you don't have any, none at all. Surely you're not leaving all of this, and more, to just pure speculation? "Hark!" Grandpa Risque exclaimed, "I hear the clanging of pots."

 

[doverturtle]

Maybe if it actually sold for ten cents that would be true. Who could really afford to waste fifty cents on it? Remember, that would be equivalent to approximately $13 today, whereas ten cents would be around $2.60 equivalent. It seems to me the intended purpose was not to make money, but to go on a fishing expedition for information.

 

[bigscoop]

Maybe if it actually sold for ten cents that would be true. Who could really afford to waste fifty cents on it? Remember, that would be equivalent to approximately $13 today, whereas ten cents would be around $2.60 equivalent. It seems to me the intended purpose was not to make money, but to go on a fishing expedition for information.

I think you've nailed it. Clearly the author knew more then he was disclosing. It's very possible that he was presenting just enough detail to attract the attention of those with existing knowledge in his search for that "missing unintelligible piece of paper." This was still the missing piece and he clearly tells his readers this.

In 1884, just one prior to the pamphlet's publication date we have a Thomas J. Beale in Richmond, this name being consistent with the story and 1884 being consistent with the pamphlet's publication date.

TJB was said to be dark and swarthy, this being consistent with a man of color, which Thomas J. Beale of Richmond was.

Our author claimed to have important business affairs in Richmond, this being consistent with the presence of Thomas J. Beale in Richmond.

The names, Jackson and Ward are referenced in the pamphlet, Thomas J. Beale resided in Jackson Ward, Richmond.

Now there is nothing conclusive here but it certainly raises a few flags worth our investigating.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

I think you've nailed it. Clearly the author knew more then he was disclosing. It's very possible that he was presenting just enough detail to attract the attention of those with existing knowledge in his search for that "missing unintelligible piece of paper." This was still the missing piece and he clearly tells his readers this.

In 1884, just one prior to the pamphlet's publication date we have a Thomas J. Beale in Richmond, this name being consistent with the story and 1884 being consistent with the pamphlet's publication date.

TJB was said to be dark and swarthy, this being consistent with a man of color, which Thomas J. Beale of Richmond was.

Our author claimed to have important business affairs in Richmond, this being consistent with the presence of Thomas J. Beale in Richmond.

The names, Jackson and Ward are referenced in the pamphlet, Thomas J. Beale resided in Jackson Ward, Richmond.

Now there is nothing conclusive here but it certainly raises a few flags worth our investigating.

And YOUR Documentation...?

 

[ECS]

Your summation is consistent with all of the local lore and romance attached to the story... Is there anything, anything at all, that you can present as conclusive supporting evidence in support of your conclusion other then local lore and romance? For instance, what source materials do you have that positively identify Clay, Coles, Witcher, and Jackson? What source materials do you have that suggest that Ward was capable of even writing the story?...

...and what source materials do you have to prove different?

 

[bigscoop]

And YOUR Documentation...?

Well, aside from the short list of factual consistencies/comparisons I just posted, what is it you don't understand about, "worth Investigating?" I can only assume that you're asking if I got all this from the years of local lore and romance, which is always considered the only possible and credible source and always the gospel, in which case I have to say, "No. These are just some very basic consistencies and comparisons that any outsider can easy locate and relate to."

 

[bigscoop]

...and what source materials do you have to prove different?

Ahhhh....for many reasons this is going to be especially good for me, and others. Are you saying Pauline Innis was a simple liar, then? Tell us how this fits into all of your local lore, romance, and legend? True, or all a big fat lie? I anxiously await your answer. In fact, your entire opposition and summation hinges on it.

 

[ECS]

...
In 1884, just one prior to the pamphlet's publication date we have a Thomas J. Beale in Richmond, this name being consistent with the story and 1884 being consistent with the pamphlet's publication date.

TJB was said to be dark and swarthy, this being consistent with a man of color, which Thomas J. Beale of Richmond was.
Our author claimed to have important business affairs in Richmond, this being consistent with the presence of Thomas J. Beale in Richmond.
The names, Jackson and Ward are referenced in the pamphlet, Thomas J. Beale resided in Jackson Ward, Richmond.

Now there is nothing conclusive here but it certainly raises a few flags worth our investigating.

Are these he factual consistencies/ comparisons to which you refer?
Then you play the Pauline Innis card, but there are no Lafitte jokers in that deck.
What about playing Viemeister, Fabyan, or a Friedman card?

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Your summation is consistent with all of the local lore and romance attached to the story, I'll hand you that much. Of course your conclusive source materials only exist in thin air but that too is also consistent with all of the local lore and romance attached to the tale. Is there anything, anything at all, that you can present as conclusive supporting evidence in support of your conclusion other then local lore and romance? For instance, what source materials do you have that positively identify Clay, Coles, Witcher, and Jackson? What source materials do you have that suggest that Ward was capable of even writing the story? I'm betting you don't have any, none at all. Surely you're not leaving all of this, and more, to just pure speculation? "Hark!" Grandpa Risque exclaimed, "I hear the clanging of pots."

LOL! WHAT "Source materials" do YOU have for Alderman TJB in Richmond, Va., etc.; I wanna know because I wanna see THAT info.

 

[bigscoop]

Are these he factual consistencies/ comparisons to which you refer?
Then you play the Pauline Innis card, but there are no Lafitte jokers in that deck.
What about playing Viemeister, Fabyan, or a Friedman card?

You're dodging, again. "Duck and roll! Duck and roll!" You started this game, not me. And yes, as Jeff of PA pointed out with his posting of the news paper article, a Thomas J. Beale did exist in Jackson Ward Richmond Virginia in 1884, and then as you yourself pointed out, he was a man of color as well, born in 1827/28. And yes, the author did claim to have important business affairs in Richmond, did he not. So yes, the comparisons and consistencies are factual. Now then, what you say about the Pauline Innis card? Complete fraud or not? Your entire theory and opposition to mine hinges on it so what will it be? Man up, or man out?