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ECS said:
A fictional character in Ward's 1885 dime novel, there exists no solid proof outside of the job pamphlet that can confirm otherwise.
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When were the Beale Papers “written?” Hard to say for sure but it's probably safe to assume that they were actually written sometime in the recent months or years leading up to the publication date of 1885.


“Thomas J. Beale” or “TJB” as he is referred to in the pamphlet is often reduced to just “Thomas Beale” by those who research the story and yet the author has made perfectly clear distinction that the main character's identity was, “Thomas J. Beale,” or “TJB,” and not just Thomas Beale.


Now with all of this in mind there are those who simply lay claim that the differences between Thomas J. Beale and Thomas Beale just doesn't matter. Why do they make such claims? One answer is simplicity, plain and simple. By claiming it just doesn't matter the huge complication of positive identity is avoided, this is one reason. The second reason is convenience, the notion that it just doesn't matter allowing them to attach any Thomas Beale they desire to the story, as has been done over and over again on the local romantic level and from the New Orleans era where Thomas Beale's are easy to locate.



But in 1884, in Richmond Virginia, just one year prior to the pamphlet's publication, in that very city where “important business affairs” required our author's attention, we do find record of a “Thomas J. Beale.” So with this I say, and still in search of the real truth, “Positive I.D. does most certainly matter.” :thumbsup:
 

bigscoop said:
When were the Beale Papers “written?” Hard to say for sure but it's probably safe to assume that they were actually written sometime in the recent months or years leading up to the publication date of 1885.


“Thomas J. Beale” or “TJB” as he is referred to in the pamphlet is often reduced to just “Thomas Beale” by those who research the story and yet the author has made perfectly clear distinction that the main character's identity was, “Thomas J. Beale,” or “TJB,” and not just Thomas Beale.


Now with all of this in mind there are those who simply lay claim that the differences between Thomas J. Beale and Thomas Beale just doesn't matter. Why do they make such claims? One answer is simplicity, plain and simple. By claiming it just doesn't matter the huge complication of positive identity is avoided, this is one reason. The second reason is convenience, the notion that it just doesn't matter allowing them to attach any Thomas Beale they desire to the story, as has been done over and over again on the local romantic level and from the New Orleans era where Thomas Beale's are easy to locate.



But in 1884, in Richmond Virginia, just one year prior to the pamphlet's publication, in that very city where “important business affairs” required our author's attention, we do find record of a “Thomas J. Beale.” So with this I say, and still in search of the real truth, “Positive I.D. does most certainly matter.” :thumbsup:
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Been there, looking; doing R & I...? Richmond, Va. is a HUGE place... must be South-side Richmond, where EA Poe lived at one time. It is the OLDEST part of Richmond...
 

ECS said:
The only connection that Thomas Beale of New Orleans has with Virginia is that duel with James Beverly Risqué and Chloe Delancey and Thomas Beale Jr who, I might add, are not mentioned in grandson Ward's 1885 Beale Papers.
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New Orleans has 6 Thomas Beale's. How do you know the one who was in the Dual was the Captain Beale?
 

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bigscoop said:
When were the Beale Papers “written?” Hard to say for sure but it's probably safe to assume that they were actually written sometime in the recent months or years leading up to the publication date of 1885...

But in 1884, in Richmond Virginia, just one year prior to the pamphlet's publication, in that very city where “important business affairs” required our author's attention, we do find record of a “Thomas J. Beale.” ...
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Are you now backing away from your Laflin Lafitte memoir and French/ Bonaparte theory?
 

ECS said:
Are you now backing away from your Laflin Lafitte memoir and French/ Bonaparte theory?
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Not at all. I'm still convinced, even more so now then previously, that all of these elements played defining roles. "The flame is worth the candle" and the scope of the enterprise was just much broader then many wish to entertain or to investigate. I understand this and I am perfectly content in living with it.
 

bigscoop said:
...
But in 1884, in Richmond Virginia, just one year prior to the pamphlet's publication, in that very city where “important business affairs” required our author's attention, we do find record of a “Thomas J. Beale.” So with this I say, and still in search of the real truth, “Positive I.D. does most certainly matter.”
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Thomas J Beale was born 1827 a free man of color in 2nd Jackson Ward, Richmond, Virginia, a historic African-American community. After the Civil War many of the new Freeman moved to Jackson Ward.
http://www.nps.gov/nr/travel/richmond/jacksonwardhd.html
 

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bigscoop said:
"server not found?" :dontknow:
But if so, and his father was?
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His father and mother were listed "unknown"
The link provided is about Jackson Ward, the information on T Beale came from State of Virginia genealogy site/ Richmond/ Jackson Ward/ African Americans. He is also listed on a Richmond cemetery site. HH
 

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Rebel - KGC said:
GOOD "Read"... HOWEVER! It is about the WASHINGTON name... after Bro. George Washington. The Brits would NEVER mention Thomas Jefferson, to my knowledge. The Harts PROBABLY just made a DOI/TJ "connection"... dunno. :dontknow::coffee2:
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It's just an article in reference as to how names relating to the slave trade often came about, Washington could be substituted for just about any name. Same principle that Jean proposed in regards to the "J", a means of further distinction or identity.
 

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bigscoop said:
It's just an article in reference as to how names relating to the slave trade often came about, Washington could be substituted for just about any name. Same principle that Jean proposed in regards to the "J", a means of further distinction or identity.
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OK, you have a good point, that I can "play with"... "connected" to Thomas Jefferson; his "girl", Sally Heming, had a son, BEVERLY, "light-skin" slave that "local" ppl at Monticello stated was fathered by TJ, in the late 1700's (will get my folder on him). By 1822, Beverly left Monticello as a free man, moved to Washington, DC. and lived in "WHITE" Society. Was Beverly, TJB? We DO know that Sally had two other sons, fathered by TJ... AND! They ALSO "went WHITE", living in WHITE Society (DC, I think). Sally was "light-skin" & a half-sister to TJ's wife, Martha,; BOTH having the SAME father... Sally was BEAUTIFUL, (seen her portrait).
 

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BACK! Beverly Heming was born 1798; at 21 or 22, he left Monticello, "passed" into WHITE Society in WASHINGTON, DC.... SO! Let's ponder on this... TJB, Thomas Jefferson's BEVERLY! Was HE later involved as TJB in Jackson Ward...? HA!
 

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Rebel - KGC said:
BACK! Beverly Heming was born 1798; at 21 or 22, he left Monticello "passed" into WHITE Society in Washington, DC"... SO! Let's ponder on this... TJB, Thomas Jefferson's BEVERLY! HA!
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There is "speculation" that Thomas Beale himself may have fathered a son of a slave, or perhaps the name "Jefferson" hinting that Jefferson had fathered a son through a slave that was somehow connected to Thomas Beale? But this is all just pure speculation for the entertaining. :dontknow: However, if this might be the case, somehow, then this might make sense of the Thomas J. Beale from Jackson Ward, Richmond, and the author's claim of important business affairs there. And so we keep looking. :dontknow:
 

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bigscoop said:
There is "speculation" that Thomas Beale himself may have fathered a son of a slave, or perhaps the name "Jefferson" hinting that Jefferson had fathered a son through a slave that was somehow connected to Thomas Beale? But this is all just pure speculation for the entertaining. :dontknow: However, if this might be the case, somehow, then this might make sense of the Thomas J. Beale from Jackson Ward, Richmond, and the author's claim of important business affairs there. And so we keep looking. :dontknow:
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Thomas Beale, Sr. of Fincastle, Va.?
 

bigscoop said:
There is "speculation" that Thomas Beale himself may have fathered a son of a slave, or perhaps the name "Jefferson" hinting that Jefferson had fathered a son through a slave that was somehow connected to Thomas Beale? But this is all just pure speculation for the entertaining. :dontknow: However, if this might be the case, somehow, then this might make sense of the Thomas J. Beale from Jackson Ward, Richmond, and the author's claim of important business affairs there. And so we keep looking. :dontknow:
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Alderman Thomas J Beale of Jackson Ward, Richmond was born in Jackson Ward in 1827.
What year did Thomas Beale Sr die? Oh yes, 1820.
 

ECS said:
Alderman Thomas J Beale of Jackson Ward, Richmond was born in Jackson Ward in 1827.
What year did Thomas Beale Sr die? Oh yes, 1820.
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So? As you'll notice in my post, I stated that it has only been "speculated" for the entertaining. Also, you should have noticed that the primary speculation is that the name was, perhaps, adopted as a means of additional identification, or that it is "somehow" connected to Beale or possibly even Jefferson "in some way?" What is apparent is that the Harts, for some unknown reason, determined the middle name to be Jefferson so the question is, why? :dontknow:

PS: I'm just sharing "speculations" that have come across my desk over the years, none of them originating from me but I remain open to exploring and sharing the possibilities. :thumbsup:

A "Thomas J. Beale" DID exist in Richmond Virginia and he was there just one year prior to the publication of the Beale papers, so, is it possible that he knew Ward, or perhaps that he held insight into some of the details that appear in that publication? Certainly can't rule it out without first investigating these possibilities unless you are already 100% committed that none of it is even remotely possible. Are you 100% committed? And if so, why? :dontknow:

The author claims that he first gained knowledge of the events in 1862, that would make Thomas J. Beale of Jackson Ward only 35 years of age and still young enough to pursue what Morriss had provided him. Did Thomas J. Beale know Morriss? In 1862 did Thomas J. Beale have important business affairs in Richmond? Who were his parents, etc., etc., etc. :dontknow: Need to discover all of this before he can be so easily ruled out and deemed entirely insignificant.
 

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