Oroblanco
Gold Member
- Jan 21, 2005
- 7,841
- 9,854
- Detector(s) used
- Tesoro Lobo Supertraq, (95%) Garrett Scorpion (5%)
Hello again,
Blindbowman wrote:
Yep I DID miss that one. I have to agree with Jeffro (and my sincere apologies amigo) if the vein is this large and obvious, it seems unlikely in the EXTREME that so many (the estimates run into several hundred thousand people over a century) folks could have missed that! How can this be reconciled?
Blindbowman also wrote:
Are you saying that the vein is this large, yet is not plainly visible to the eye? While this could be possible, it seems very unlikely, especially when we consider what type of ore the Lost Dutchman had - a white quartz! Wouldn't you expect that this would stand out at once, if exposed to the surface? Or are you saying that the vein is not exposed to the surface? I am confused again.
If the vein is NOT plainly visible, how were you able to trace it out and give such a description as posted? Through electronic instruments (like metal detectors or ground-penetrating radar) or dowsing or 
?
We have been bantering over a pretty broad spectrum in several threads - for instance this thread is titled "Tayopa" yet we are discussing the LDM. I know that our amigo Blindbowman feels certain that several of the legends discussed are in fact all talking about a single place, and this place is the Superstition Mountains - and I have problems in trying to tie the various legends together. The ore itself is one of the most serious obstacles to linking the legends - now I am NOT claiming to be a geologist or mining engineer (heck I still have never seen a piece of nickel ore for instance, other than photos) but it is a fact that gold ores, and silver ores, are highly 'individual' - they are like 'fingerprints' in that no two veins are identical. A good geologist or mining engineer can readily identify the sources of various ores. So when we try to tie in Tayopa, which has both silver and gold ores, (and both lode and placer gold) to the Lost Dutchman, we have an immediate stumbling block - for the ore examples we can examine that are purported to have originated in the mine of Jacob Waltz are what would be classed as a hypothermal vein - having coarse, large particles of gold in a white or clear quartz matrix of large crystals. I do not have a sample of the ore from Tayopa's silver or gold mines, but relying on our amigo Real de Tayopa as well as records, that ore is more likely to be a mesothermal type, with small to medium gold/silver particles in a colored quartz matrix of smaller crystals (the color possibilities ranging from dark almost black, to yellow-orange, to greens etc). How can this be reconciled? Unless they are two different veins (and we know that the mines of Tayopa numbered 17 or 18, not one single vein) then I don't see how to make this idea work. That is counting only the problem with the ores - not even touching on the other problems, such as timeline, geographic location, the size of the workings, etc.
Then when we try to tie in other legendary mines such as Peraltas or Gonzales or Sombrero etc we have no records of any known production - only a story. How can it be proven whether a mine is in fact the Sombrero, if we have NO examples of the ore from the Sombrero to compare it to? By the dimensions alone? Or a combination of information including dimensions, exact location, artifacts found etc? Yep I am confused about this point too.
Blindbowman you have hinted that you have more evidence, but are not willing to post it publicly - so we are left to speculate. Wouldn't you feel skeptical, if the roles were reversed? Is there some part or item of evidence that you could post in public, without releasing any vital information - that would serve to seal the case or tip the scale to "more likely" than not? If so, I would sure appreciate if you could post it.
Real de Tayopa wrote:
Thank you kindly amigo! So there are similarities - for I know there are basalts in the Superstitions, as well as other igneous rock types - even a bit of granite and a little sedimentary rock in some places. We know that igneous rocks themselves are poor hosts of metallic minerals, but those intrusions of hydrothermal types of rock can be extremely rich in gold, silver, copper etc.
Oroblanco
Blindbowman wrote:
Yep I DID miss that one. I have to agree with Jeffro (and my sincere apologies amigo) if the vein is this large and obvious, it seems unlikely in the EXTREME that so many (the estimates run into several hundred thousand people over a century) folks could have missed that! How can this be reconciled?
Blindbowman also wrote:
Are you saying that the vein is this large, yet is not plainly visible to the eye? While this could be possible, it seems very unlikely, especially when we consider what type of ore the Lost Dutchman had - a white quartz! Wouldn't you expect that this would stand out at once, if exposed to the surface? Or are you saying that the vein is not exposed to the surface? I am confused again.
If the vein is NOT plainly visible, how were you able to trace it out and give such a description as posted? Through electronic instruments (like metal detectors or ground-penetrating radar) or dowsing or ? We have been bantering over a pretty broad spectrum in several threads - for instance this thread is titled "Tayopa" yet we are discussing the LDM. I know that our amigo Blindbowman feels certain that several of the legends discussed are in fact all talking about a single place, and this place is the Superstition Mountains - and I have problems in trying to tie the various legends together. The ore itself is one of the most serious obstacles to linking the legends - now I am NOT claiming to be a geologist or mining engineer (heck I still have never seen a piece of nickel ore for instance, other than photos) but it is a fact that gold ores, and silver ores, are highly 'individual' - they are like 'fingerprints' in that no two veins are identical. A good geologist or mining engineer can readily identify the sources of various ores. So when we try to tie in Tayopa, which has both silver and gold ores, (and both lode and placer gold) to the Lost Dutchman, we have an immediate stumbling block - for the ore examples we can examine that are purported to have originated in the mine of Jacob Waltz are what would be classed as a hypothermal vein - having coarse, large particles of gold in a white or clear quartz matrix of large crystals. I do not have a sample of the ore from Tayopa's silver or gold mines, but relying on our amigo Real de Tayopa as well as records, that ore is more likely to be a mesothermal type, with small to medium gold/silver particles in a colored quartz matrix of smaller crystals (the color possibilities ranging from dark almost black, to yellow-orange, to greens etc). How can this be reconciled? Unless they are two different veins (and we know that the mines of Tayopa numbered 17 or 18, not one single vein) then I don't see how to make this idea work. That is counting only the problem with the ores - not even touching on the other problems, such as timeline, geographic location, the size of the workings, etc.
Then when we try to tie in other legendary mines such as Peraltas or Gonzales or Sombrero etc we have no records of any known production - only a story. How can it be proven whether a mine is in fact the Sombrero, if we have NO examples of the ore from the Sombrero to compare it to? By the dimensions alone? Or a combination of information including dimensions, exact location, artifacts found etc? Yep I am confused about this point too.
Blindbowman you have hinted that you have more evidence, but are not willing to post it publicly - so we are left to speculate. Wouldn't you feel skeptical, if the roles were reversed? Is there some part or item of evidence that you could post in public, without releasing any vital information - that would serve to seal the case or tip the scale to "more likely" than not? If so, I would sure appreciate if you could post it.
Real de Tayopa wrote:
Thank you kindly amigo! So there are similarities - for I know there are basalts in the Superstitions, as well as other igneous rock types - even a bit of granite and a little sedimentary rock in some places. We know that igneous rocks themselves are poor hosts of metallic minerals, but those intrusions of hydrothermal types of rock can be extremely rich in gold, silver, copper etc.
Oroblanco
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You can delete your posts and make wholesale changes, but ......
![.jpgidentification of the mines.jpg[1]©@.jpg](/data/attachments/158/158226-c1b279164c10173565a2ba0286f816e7.jpg)
