SPANISH WRECK SALVORS -- Please Help Identify This Object.

[Chagy]

I am still thinking its religius related.....

 

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[RELICDUDE07]

Man... chagy/ you are very close to getting this one it looks like the piece you found chagy/may even have the round tear drops/or rain as well ? like the round shape on Highwaters piece

 

[Highwater]

I had some mail today from a collector of religious artifacts. He has given permission to post his info on this forum. I will cut and paste this information below and will then go to work on some more angle shots of the item.
Chagy I think you have hit the nail on the head with this one. I appreciate the effort all you guys have put into to helping figure this out. It is all starting to come together. It has just been a big mystry up until now.
Below is the info sent to me this afternoon.
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Highwater... I have a friend who has a book about religious items and
have seen other religious medals with similar attributes. They date most
commonly to the early-mid 1800's. Yours looks to be hand soldered and
the lettering is most likely either the initials of the person who made
it or the letters stood for a religious reference or personal
meaning/motto for its maker.

The guys on TNEt are all probably right about the symbolism of this
piece, but there is more. There are multiple religious references
present... the heart is being pierced by a sword AND the sword is also
representative of a cross. There is something hidden which no one picked
out and that is that the section that everyone sees as the hilt of a
sword AND as the cross bar of the crucifix is also two arms with hands
clasped in the middle representing religious unity. The appertenence at
the top is representative of a Fleur de Lis which is a very common
symbol used by many cultures.

I would say your cross dates to the 1800's and may have been a trade
item as crosses and medals of this sort commonly were used to spread
Christianity throughout the country.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[bootybay]

oh wow, this just keeps getting better and better.... by any chance did your contact tell you what its worth perhaps?

 

[Highwater]

Here are some more scans at different angles.

 

[Darren in NC]

Very nice, HW. Being a Saints fan fron Louisiana, I shouild have picked up on the Fleur de Lis on the top. Update - the hands are the weld, eh? Interesting if you're looking from the back, but it's not obvious from the front. Cool trivia, though.

 

[RELICDUDE07]

That is one cool find Highwater. i thought the hands were just the weld , at the center of the cross? im glad you got it Highwater. What a fun hobby

 

[Voldbjerg]

Believe me , Chagy is the closest . Don't see more than there is ! Cornelius

If you know what it is please enlighten us.

/V

 

[PhipsFolly]

Yeah... makes alot of sense... tie something with a sharp point around your waist that way if you trip and fall, you are sure to harpoon yourself in an area of your body that you wouldn't care too much about... you know... being a monk and all. HEEhee!! Sorry Corn... couldn't resist. You seem very sure of your answer... do you have documentation demonstrating this fact? Just curious...

 

[Chagy]

It was used by monks . It was tied on the rope around their waist . Cornelius

Corny,

I was thinking about the samething.....speacialy now that i see those holes on the side...The frnaciscans did use a rosary on the rope tied to their waist..(see pic #1 & 2)

Phillipsfoly,

I wear around my neck a 18kt gold rosary and the bottom tip of the cross is as sharp as the artifact in question.....And yes I have pinch my self in the chest a whole bunch of times............

Corny,

Even though I like your idea I am also open to the posibility of it been part of a small bronze statue (see pic #3 & 4)
or it could even be part of one of those sticks or roads (see what the man is holding in pic #5) which by the way makes me think that what is in the top of our subject artifact is not a flor de lis since the flor de lis was well represented. (se pic #5)

 

[Chagy]

the one thing I am 99% sure is that is related to the Franciscans.....

http://images.google.com/imgres?img...q=first+franciscans&gbv=2&svnum=10&hl=en&sa=G

 

[ivan salis]

humm the fleur de lis was a french catholic symbol --- and french monarchs symbol --the dauphine of orleans --- thus new orleans --saints football team used the symbol --- the french and spanish royal families often were intertwined thru history ---- Ivan

 

[RELICDUDE07]

Highwater.... dont sell it ..yet. I think its very old like chagy first said 1600s to 1700s from the nails and spikes used to make it..The sword that pierced marys heart....great ( Rare ) find

 

[ivan salis]

very interesting indeed---- I would be very careful with telling anyone where you found it (there maybe other "interesting stuff"" nearby ) and if its "historical" in nature some folks are very "grabby" about such things ,--- and they will making your life a living hell one way or another till you give it to them (arch types for the most part)--- so have it checked out carefully and quietly as possible --- do not "leave" it with anyone for evaluation or to be "researched" --- as it most likely will become "lost" ---- trust no one to hold it for you -- Ivan

 

[Chagy]

http://books.google.com/books?id=Ps...ts=8kPY2PLyP_&sig=H2kXP1KCGcF6n3kmuIUh5-Fm7Bk

 

[paddy.mick]

Highwater, unless you retrieved it off public land, the "arch types" will only help you identify it. It's likely rather modern though, given the brazing on it, so worth more to the religious if you have a good tale of lore to go with it.
To online auction with it, and include some story of martyrs and saints and guilt-you'll get thousands from my aunt in no time. Bloody Micks, I'll warn her soon enough.
Paddy

 

[RELICDUDE07]

Highwater... hold on to it ----- Some nails found on a 1710 shipwreck... And some very nice blacksmith work from 1690.. looks to me like -- they had all the pieces to make another one?i found this today on e-bay 1700s heart?

 

[Darren in NC]

I doubt it was a blacksmith that made this. An amatuer one perhaps. Blacksmiths typically took great pride in their work and if requested to make pieces for monks (highly respected in days gone by), they would forge "professional" pieces to reflect their reputation. This thing is very crude. It looks like homemade jewelry/charm of the day. I've never seen nails with hollowed out heads, either. Again, homemade fabrication.

My two reales...

 

[paddy.mick]

Welding and brazing history goes back several thousand years in various forms but the type of brazing/welding on this object was in its experimental infancy in the early 1900's (rare, and on an industrial scale), and properly developed and more widely used for smaller objects in the 50's and later.
It's nifty, and likely made in the last 50 years or so.
-another couple pennies in the mix,
Paddy