Spain has got its underwater cultural heritage back

[VOC]

What a triumph for the USA, and a display of how Spain is still really in the 3rd world.

It took an American company to locate it because Spain could not do it.

It took American investors to fund it as Spain could not afford it.

It took an American company to recover it because Spain has not got the technology or the equipment.

It took an American Attorney to fight for it as Spain’s lawyers were not up to it.

It took American planes to fly them to Spain because Spain does not make planes big enough to carry it.

Spain will go down in History as the thieves that they are, by denying Peru their right to their Heritage and the decendents of the merchants their share of the coins or their value.

Odyssey has had all the publicity and massive share uplift that has more than covered their cost (recovery is no more costly than running the ship on the survey work that they do most other days of the year, so the $2.5M is largely a theoretical cost, as they would have spent best part of that in the same duration even if they were not recovering coins).

And now some of the ideologists in Spain have burdened the Spanish tax payers with the on-going cost of security and conservation of a mass of coins that are of no use whatsoever, other than yet more small pile's of coins in a few museum display cases, whilst the rest sit in tubs for eternity.

Result !!

 

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[gord]

I guess there wont be any comments back about the latin american heritage of the new world.

The Latin American history is also Spanish history, that's where the Latin comes from.
What are you asking ? That all conquered nations should ask for repatriation Every nation and civilization has been conquered
over history. So where to do you want to start, BC or AD ?
Ossy

The Spaniards did not Conquer the New to Them World. They Decimated it.

Robbed, Raped, Infected it with Syphilis and the Pocs.

The only thing they left of value was the Horse.

A most Sorry Bunch they were.

Actually, syphilis was a gift from the New World that they carried back home with them.

 

[GreenMeanie]

Did they even get paid for their time and expense of bringing this treasure up from the sea floor?
If anything this treasure should have been split but I don't agree with that. Finders keepers.

 

[bluehunter1973]

Not sad my Grandparents left at all the only heritage I claim is Southern Redneck. Alexandre the way spain sees treasure I guess you have to give all treasure back. So yes. The jewish people had tons of belongings stole from them along with teeth and jewelry. They were able to get a lot of theirs back. Why not the indians of south america and central america. Suprised Spain doesnt want all the territory we took from them after kicking them back across the ocean. Those planes you refer to were given to your country by us. They are american c130's dont worry at the average rate that somebody in Europe has a pissing contest with another European country war will break out and somebody will take over and you will lose your heritage and the rest of the stuff you guys steal. You guys proved your point Spain got the treasure but as usual being as lazy as Spain is somebody else has to do the work. Trust me when I say if I find a Spanish treasure you will never know and Ill enjoy spending your stolen heritage.

 

[Alexandre]

Those planes you refer to were given to your country by us.

I am Portuguese.

 

[homefires]

LOL! What to the Portuguese have left of what they Stole?

Some folks the still Speek Portuguese in Brazil?

 

[Alexandre]

http://translate.google.com/transla...do/2012/02/24/cultura/1330105308.html&act=url

 

[khpony]

No Odssey didn't get reimbursed for their recovery cost. IMHO they got screwed out of it because Spain was too lazy to go find it themselves!

 

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

What a triumph for the USA, and a display of how Spain is still really in the 3rd world.

It took an American company to locate it because Spain could not do it.

It took American investors to fund it as Spain could not afford it.

It took an American company to recover it because Spain has not got the technology or the equipment.

It took an American Attorney to fight for it as Spain’s lawyers were not up to it.

It took American planes to fly them to Spain because Spain does not make planes big enough to carry it.

Spain will go down in History as the thieves that they are, by denying Peru their right to their Heritage and the decendents of the merchants their share of the coins or their value.

Odyssey has had all the publicity and massive share uplift that has more than covered their cost (recovery is no more costly than running the ship on the survey work that they do most other days of the year, so the $2.5M is largely a theoretical cost, as they would have spent best part of that in the same duration even if they were not recovering coins).

And now some of the ideologists in Spain have burdened the Spanish tax payers with the on-going cost of security and conservation of a mass of coins that are of no use whatsoever, other than yet more small pile's of coins in a few museum display cases, whilst the rest sit in tubs for eternity.

Result !!

VOC you crack me up You have a statute of a Pirate as your avatar, who did nothing more that steal from every one, and you beat your righteous chest
Ossy

 

[VOC]

M&B Ossy, Just clearly stating the facts (don’t know what on the list that you can contest ?),

Just look at the security and transport cost Spain has had to spend since they arrived back, this will just go on for ever as they will not be able to sell them to reduce the quantity.

The biggest laugh will be when someone asks to study them!

UNESCO state that collections should not be dispersed, so that will be the first rule in the book that they will want to break

 

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

M&B Ossy, Just clearly stating the facts (don’t know what on the list that you can contest ?),

Just look at the security and transport cost Spain has had to spend since they arrived back, this will just go on for ever as they will not be able to sell them to reduce the quantity.

The biggest laugh will be when someone asks to study them!

UNESCO state that collections should not be dispersed, so that will be the first rule in the book that they will want to break

You keep saying Spain will sell them . Whats wrong with you People
Can't you get it through your heads it's not going to happen.
It cost Spain a lot of money to get them back, It's worth it, SPAIN has them back on home soil
As I have said for 4 years it was never about selling them for money. They are historical artifacts that remind us of what happen that
eventful day !! Spanish History
Ossy

 

[homefires]

Some Pirates kept a ear of there victims as a trophy too.

 

[Au_Dreamers]

M&B Ossy, Just clearly stating the facts (don’t know what on the list that you can contest ?),

Just look at the security and transport cost Spain has had to spend since they arrived back, this will just go on for ever as they will not be able to sell them to reduce the quantity.

The biggest laugh will be when someone asks to study them!

UNESCO state that collections should not be dispersed, so that will be the first rule in the book that they will want to break

You keep saying Spain will sell them . Whats wrong with you People
Can't you get it through your heads it's not going to happen.
It cost Spain a lot of money to get them back, It's worth it, SPAIN has them back on home soil
As I have said for 4 years it was never about selling them for money. They are historical artifacts that remind us of what happen that
eventful day !! Spanish History
Ossy

Yeah because 590,000+ reminders will make people remember more than 141,600

 

[VOC]

M&B Ossy, carefully read what I said and you re-posted "as they will not be able to sell them"

then you go and post

"You keep saying Spain will sell them . What’s wrong with you People
Can't you get it through your heads it's not going to happen"


We all know Spain will not sell them, my point is the cost of keeping them is immense whilst owning and storing them is completely pointless.

They will not learn anything from these coins that the world does not already know.

Odyssey would have gladly given Spain a couple of thousand for display, conserved and recorded them all at no cost to the Spanish taxpayers, if only Spain were sensible enough to do a deal.

Now because of the arguments that Spain have used to steal the coins from Odyssey, they have backed themselves into a corner and will still only be able to display a few thousand coins, but will now have all the cost of conservation and recording them all, and then have the perpetual cost of storing the rest in high security conditions, serving no purpose whatsoever.

PS:

You said "SPAIN has them back on home soil"

They are not "back" on home soil, they are on home soil for the very first time:

Peru - Atlantic Ocean in a ship (possibly the Mercedes) - Seabed in International waters off Portugal for a few hundred years, Rov Sucker - Recover Basket - Hold of Odyssey Explorer - Gibraltar - Planes to Florida - Trucks to store - trucks from store - Plane ride - and then for the very first time they arrive in Spain.

 

[Alexandre]

We all know Spain will not sell them, my point is the cost of keeping them is immense whilst owning and storing them is completely pointless.

They did it for two reasons, VOC:

1) for national pride (the stupid stuff that sometimes will get a people to fight anoter nation's people but that sometimes causes a behaviour and a finantial expense that seems at first to be irrational);

2) as predecent. Spain wanted to send the message that anyone that messes with their flag ships will only loose time and money.

They have won so far in both accounts.

Spain is a country. They have a national budget. Somewhere along the line, even with the finantial crisis and bla, bla, bla, somebody will decide that it will be better to allocate the budget of two kms of highway to this coin issue than to actually have the highway built. It's a question of national pride: the people, be it on the left or on the right, supports this all the way. And no politician will mess this up.

 

[VOC]

They did it for two reasons, VOC:

"1) for national pride (the stupid stuff that sometimes will get a people to fight another nation's people but that sometimes causes a behaviour and a finantial expense that seems at first to be irrational);"

I just love it when Governments, put Ideology before Sense and Reason

No wonder there is so many countries in financial trouble!


"2) as predecent. Spain wanted to send the message that anyone that messes with their flag ships will only loose time and money."

I think all Spain has managed achieved on this one is that Spain will never know next time.

You can bet there are Spanish Sovereign vessels being worked over as we speak, that Spain will never see anything from.

Odyssey were a reputable operator who put the coins before a court to establish ownership, a less reputable operator could have carried out the same operation (as Spain knew nothing about it until the coins arrived in the USA) and taken the coins directly to one of many African or South American States and done a deal to dispose of them without any hassle whatsoever.

That is all that will happen next time.

"They have won so far in both accounts."

In truth I think they have actually lost on both counts in the long term !

 

[Bum Luck]

We all know Spain will not sell them, my point is the cost of keeping them is immense whilst owning and storing them is completely pointless.

They did it for two reasons, VOC:

1) for national pride (the stupid stuff that sometimes will get a people to fight anoter nation's people but that sometimes causes a behaviour and a finantial expense that seems at first to be irrational);

2) as predecent. Spain wanted to send the message that anyone that messes with their flag ships will only loose time and money.

They have won so far in both accounts.

Spain is a country. They have a national budget. Somewhere along the line, even with the finantial crisis and bla, bla, bla, somebody will decide that it will be better to allocate the budget of two kms of highway to this coin issue than to actually have the highway built. It's a question of national pride: the people, be it on the left or on the right, supports this all the way. And no politician will mess this up.

I think this was Aquanut's point as to reasons. Pretty childish. You should know that history belongs to people, all people.

Spain may be a 'country', with a national budget (whatever that means). but they did steal the silver from the indigenous peoples (who many would say did have an empire - but what do us non-archies know?) in the first place. Spain just chose to ruthlessly conquer them and rob their religious artifacts and melt down, murder, and burn an entire culture. Maybe I'm missing the "Moral High Ground" here...........

And no politician will mess this up.

I disagree. Treasure never exists in a vacuum. Sooner or later it follows the fate of all treasure, stolen. That's my prediction.

 

[bluehunter1973]

Only thing I have learned Spain is still greedy and none of their boats could float.

 

[Philvis]

Shouldn't the descendants of the people who lost their money on the ship get their coins back? Afterall, I read that they had never received reimbursement for their private losses when the ship went down? If that is the case 74% of the hoard should go back to the Spanish descendants of the coin owners and Spain will only get 26% to "display" for cultural heritage reasons. It will be interesting to see if those descendants now sue Spain for their rightful claim of the coins. If Spain can claim the treasure, those people should be able to make a same claim on it as well.

 

[Au_Dreamers]

"Quote from: Alexandre on Yesterday at 08:47:36 pm
And no politician will mess this up."

You mean like the cultural heritage flag waving of the Portuguese about the Azores...... until big money cruise ship tourism waved some money under their noses and out went all their articles and laws of conservation of heritage!

I'll bet you and MABO a drink, that some coins have already been taken from the rest of the lot for someone to show someone else that couldn’t be bothered to go look at them. Some will be given out to some “dignitaries” and somewhere along the way someone will say “we have over 590,000 of these coins, nobody is going to miss a few!”