Solving the Beale Papers

[Rebel - KGC]

Yeah; China is "BIG", on the "Net"...

 

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[audigger53]

Actually he has found hid treasure. He wrote a book and is selling it. Remember?

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Actually he has found hid treasure. He wrote a book and is selling it. Remember?

SO! Tell us YOUR story...

 

[audigger53]

If I had found mine, I wouldn't be on here. I would be on a nice beach sipping fruity drinks and Deep Sea fishing. LOL
Maybe in October if the funds have built up enough for another trip. Hate to fly and have to re-buy the stuff they steal out of your luggage and the stuff you didn't have room to pack. Easier to load up the car and drive across the US to go from Maryland to Arizona. That way if your missing anything, you can only blame yourself. Old fashioned Rock Hammers are suddenly hard to find. Everyone wants to sell the new ones for Chipping the rock, instead of cracking it. I admit mine is 35 years old.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Yeah... What I wanted to know MORE about was when you were on the BRP, and a Ranger confronted you; "graves signal" for GOLD, etc. Sounds like a GREAT "beginning"...

 

[audigger53]

OK laugh at me for trying to use a LRL in the Blue ridge for the Beale cache. I didn't have anything else to do that weekend and it was a nice drive from Waynesboro. Stopped on one of the cross roads, don't remember which now, but it went into Buford from the Blue Ridge Parkway. Turned on the unit, waited a bit and checked for signals on a gold freq (supposed to be anyway). Got 2 signals almost side by side and started walking them. Next thing I know is a Park Ranger comes up and asks "What are you doing here?" So I explained about the unit and "Dowsing Rods". He then said, "Ginseng or Beale treasure?" me "Huh? What's Ginseng?" He told me that most of the people they find off the road and trails are either Ginseng Hunters or looking for the Beale Treasure." I showed him the 2 signals and explained that if I had know it was National Park Land, I would not have left the car. HE asked me to show him my 2 signals again and stated that they looked like they went towards the Big Meadow where they were trying to find the graves of 2 men from way back that were buried there. I thanked him for warning me and went back to the car, shut down the unit and went back to Waynesboro. Heck in 1980 I had never heard of Ginseng.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

OK laugh at me for trying to use a LRL in the Blue ridge for the Beale cache. I didn't have anything else to do that weekend and it was a nice drive from Waynesboro. Stopped on one of the cross roads, don't remember which now, but it went into Buford from the Blue Ridge Parkway. Turned on the unit, waited a bit and checked for signals on a gold freq (supposed to be anyway). Got 2 signals almost side by side and started walking them. Next thing I know is a Park Ranger comes up and asks "What are you doing here?" So I explained about the unit and "Dowsing Rods". He then said, "Ginseng or Beale treasure?" me "Huh? What's Ginseng?" He told me that most of the people they find off the road and trails are either Ginseng Hunters or looking for the Beale Treasure." I showed him the 2 signals and explained that if I had know it was National Park Land, I would not have left the car. HE asked me to show him my 2 signals again and stated that they looked like they went towards the Big Meadow where they were trying to find the graves of 2 men from way back that were buried there. I thanked him for warning me and went back to the car, shut down the unit and went back to Waynesboro. Heck in 1980 I had never heard of Ginseng.

LOL! Ginseng Hunting is BIG in the Shenandoah Valley; above Elkton, Va. SNP Rangers ALWAYS had a hard time with 'em... BIG $$$$$, tho. Especially, the CHINA "market"... they LOVED it, and paid BIG MONEY... HA! The road you were on, is the old Fincastle Turnpike (MAYBE, Black Horse Tavern). Been there & found the "foundation" of the Old Tavern House, where a horn was sounded to let Paschal Buford know how many travelers were coming for dinner (legend).
Big Meadows (in the Shenandoah Valley), is a LONNNGGG way from Bedford County; it is in Page County. LRL is OK to use. Best to know "Land-Marks" like Sharp Top, of the Peaks of Otter. MORE, later...

 

[Rebel - KGC]

OK laugh at me for trying to use a LRL in the Blue ridge for the Beale cache. I didn't have anything else to do that weekend and it was a nice drive from Waynesboro. Stopped on one of the cross roads, don't remember which now, but it went into Buford from the Blue Ridge Parkway. Turned on the unit, waited a bit and checked for signals on a gold freq (supposed to be anyway). Got 2 signals almost side by side and started walking them. Next thing I know is a Park Ranger comes up and asks "What are you doing here?" So I explained about the unit and "Dowsing Rods". He then said, "Ginseng or Beale treasure?" me "Huh? What's Ginseng?" He told me that most of the people they find off the road and trails are either Ginseng Hunters or looking for the Beale Treasure." I showed him the 2 signals and explained that if I had know it was National Park Land, I would not have left the car. HE asked me to show him my 2 signals again and stated that they looked like they went towards the Big Meadow where they were trying to find the graves of 2 men from way back that were buried there. I thanked him for warning me and went back to the car, shut down the unit and went back to Waynesboro. Heck in 1980 I had never heard of Ginseng.

WOW! Wife & I will be in a Cabin at Skyland Resort (up the road, "a piece" from Big Meadows... like to watch the deer come out & play.) Gonna have to check on those graves... could be old Mountain families, or SNP/CCC folks, dunno. MANY Mountain communities (remains) can be found on hikes, up there. I am from Page County, went to High School (Page County High School) with MANY descendants of those mountain folks... rusting old cars, foundations of homes, a church or two... LOVE IT!

 

[Rebel - KGC]

ANYWAY, you were on the "OLD ROAD" & got 2 "hits"... THAT is interesting!

 

[Rebel - KGC]

I walked that Road at Black Horse Gap (short distance), that went down to Buford's; saw the USFS brown sign indicating that it was the Black Horse Gap Tavern; saw a "Biking" video from some guy in Roanoke, Va. "biking it". It came out behind Old Bethel Camp, I think... in the meantime, "google" Black Horse Gap Hiking/Biking trail loop; BRP. It was FUN to watch that video on the OLD Road... Dan Casey.

 

[franklin]

OK laugh at me for trying to use a LRL in the Blue ridge for the Beale cache. I didn't have anything else to do that weekend and it was a nice drive from Waynesboro. Stopped on one of the cross roads, don't remember which now, but it went into Buford from the Blue Ridge Parkway. Turned on the unit, waited a bit and checked for signals on a gold freq (supposed to be anyway). Got 2 signals almost side by side and started walking them. Next thing I know is a Park Ranger comes up and asks "What are you doing here?" So I explained about the unit and "Dowsing Rods". He then said, "Ginseng or Beale treasure?" me "Huh? What's Ginseng?" He told me that most of the people they find off the road and trails are either Ginseng Hunters or looking for the Beale Treasure." I showed him the 2 signals and explained that if I had know it was National Park Land, I would not have left the car. HE asked me to show him my 2 signals again and stated that they looked like they went towards the Big Meadow where they were trying to find the graves of 2 men from way back that were buried there. I thanked him for warning me and went back to the car, shut down the unit and went back to Waynesboro. Heck in 1980 I had never heard of Ginseng.

You got off easy. If you told the ranger you were treasure hunting and that was a metal detector you would have been in trouble. There is a really steep fine and confiscation of your vehicle for metal detecting on the BRP. I did not know that until I hunted down near North Wilkesboro on the BRP. We were right beside the road checking out an old homesite. When I got home I looked up on the Internet and I was surprised what the fines were. Don't even keep a metal detector in your vehicle while you are on the BRP they can throw the book at you.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

You got off easy. If you told the ranger you were treasure hunting and that was a metal detector you would have been in trouble. There is a really steep fine and confiscation of your vehicle for metal detecting on the BRP. I did not know that until I hunted down near North Wilkesboro on the BRP. We were right beside the road checking out an old homesite. When I got home I looked up on the Internet and I was surprised what the fines were. Don't even keep a metal detector in your vehicle while you are on the BRP they can throw the book at you.

And WILL!

 

[tad10]

I've finished Paul Stewart's book "Solving the Beale Papers" and wanted to offer a review and some comments and a small rant ;-)

I'll comment on the Good, the Bad and the Ugly. And like the movie, I'll go in reverse order.

The Ugly.

A small point: I came across a typo in one of his grids (page 70) there's an extraneous grey F on the second line which should be a non grey Y, I didn't carefully search every grid (and there are a lot in this book) for typos, but this is something that should be done if there is ever a second edition of the book. One bigger point: the book has a modified page 23 in its copy of the Beale Papers at the end of the book, which isn't great in itself, but the really ugly bit is that I could find no notice in the book stating that the page 23 wasn't an original page. Again, a second edition should either provide a copy of the real page 23, or provide notice that this is a reconstructed page.

Finally, in the Ugly section, are the anti-Catholic quotes in Stewart's description of various Masons and Illuminati, while I understand that in part he's trying to present their perspective as to why they joined their respective organizations, the presentation comes across as not just their anti-Catholic bias but as if Stewart is himself biased. For example, in his discussion of Karl Reinhold he quotes Reinhold's accusations against the Catholic Church. The quote is completely unnecessary in context to make the historical point Stewart is making and thus comes across as anti-Catholic bias on the part of the author not just the bias of a long dead Mason/Illuminati. Let me emphasize "comes across" I am not accusing Stewart of bias, I suspect he is not a Catholic and when he wrote those sections he didn't realize how they would read to someone who is Catholic, such as myself. But certainly, as I note in the conclusion, I hope that if there is a second edition of this book he excises the worst offending statements.

The Bad.

Stewart is wedded to his Masonic Allegory theory and so the book discards, ignores or minimizes any evidence that is contrary to that theory. Any theory or solution to the Beale must answer all reasonable raised questions,

Relatedly, any theory or solution to the Beale has to comport with the psychology behind the Beale. I'll focus on just one problem with the book in this regards, Stewart, correctly, notes the multiple re-occurances of the number "23" in the Beale Pages. Stewart even took the time to note that there are 23 comma differences between the Beale DOI and actual DOI. The Book's explanation for all these 23 are to link it to a particular Robert Morriss in the 18th Century. This is complete nonsense. If the Beale authors were interested in linking the Mason Morriss to the Papers, the inclusion of the DOI plus the mention of the Beale's Robt. Morriss would have been sufficient. The Good.

Despite my criticisms above, the book does have some good points and after Peter Viemeister's "The Beale Treasure" is the best book I've read on the Beale. Importantly, Stewart presents a solid debunking of what I call the "Must be Real" theory that the Beale Story is true on its face. Additionally, Stewart presents a lot of very helpful grids and information about Cipher Two, some of which I haven't read before. His grids on Ciphers One and Three are less helpful, but do make his point about Cipher kerning, which is also important. Stewart's evidence of deliberate kerning in the Ciphers debunks the "Dime Novel" theory.

Finally, there is certainly some interesting historical information on the Masons and original Illuminati that is of interest in itself, though the connections he tries to make between them and the Beale Cipher are unlikely.

Indeed, I'd recommend the book if it weren't for the issues outlined in the Ugly section above, if he fixes them in a subsequent printing I'd have no problem recommending the book with the caveat to take the Masonic Allegory theory with several large grains of salt.

Cheers

Trevor Dewey

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Well, the signer of the DOI was Robert MORRIS... not Robert Morriss; NO "connection"... check it OUT! AND! We have one "poster" who claims "Divine Help"...

 

[franklin]

Well, the signer of the DOI was Robert MORRIS... not Robert Morriss; NO "connection"... check it OUT! AND! We have one "poster" who claims "Divine Help"...

Robert Morris that signed the DOI was half great uncle to Robert Morris in Lynchburg.

I need to correct this before i leave. Robert Morris the signer of the DOI was half uncle to Robert Morris of Lynchburg not great uncle.

 

[tad10]

Well, the signer of the DOI was Robert MORRIS... not Robert Morriss; NO "connection"... check it OUT! QUOTE]

The point I am making above about Beale Author Psychology is that it doesn't matter that there is no familial connection between either Morris(s) when both the DoI and similar name are in the Beale Pages you do need to make 46 changes to the DoI to direct attention to the name of Robert Morris on the DoI.

I'm pretty sure you own Stewart's book. Did you do as I suggested and fill out the grid on page 70? If you haven't, no worries, I'll upload a excel spreadsheet so that those who don't have Stevens book can see what I'm talking about today or tomorrow.



Trev

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Well, the signer of the DOI was Robert MORRIS... not Robert Morriss; NO "connection"... check it OUT! QUOTE]

The point I am making above about Beale Author Psychology is that it doesn't matter that there is no familial connection between either Morris(s) when both the DoI and similar name are in the Beale Pages you do need to make 46 changes to the DoI to direct attention to the name of Robert Morris on the DoI.

I'm pretty sure you own Stewart's book. Did you do as I suggested and fill out the grid on page 70? If you haven't, no worries, I'll upload a excel spreadsheet so that those who don't have Stevens book can see what I'm talking about today or tomorrow.



Trev

I DO have the book, & no... have not "done the Grid".

 

[bigscoop]

I've finished Paul Stewart's book "Solving the Beale Papers" and wanted to offer a review and some comments and a small rant ;-)

I'll comment on the Good, the Bad and the Ugly. And like the movie, I'll go in reverse order.

The Ugly.

A small point: I came across a typo in one of his grids (page 70) there's an extraneous grey F on the second line which should be a non grey Y, I didn't carefully search every grid (and there are a lot in this book) for typos, but this is something that should be done if there is ever a second edition of the book. One bigger point: the book has a modified page 23 in its copy of the Beale Papers at the end of the book, which isn't great in itself, but the really ugly bit is that I could find no notice in the book stating that the page 23 wasn't an original page. Again, a second edition should either provide a copy of the real page 23, or provide notice that this is a reconstructed page.

Finally, in the Ugly section, are the anti-Catholic quotes in Stewart's description of various Masons and Illuminati, while I understand that in part he's trying to present their perspective as to why they joined their respective organizations, the presentation comes across as not just their anti-Catholic bias but as if Stewart is himself biased. For example, in his discussion of Karl Reinhold he quotes Reinhold's accusations against the Catholic Church. The quote is completely unnecessary in context to make the historical point Stewart is making and thus comes across as anti-Catholic bias on the part of the author not just the bias of a long dead Mason/Illuminati. Let me emphasize "comes across" I am not accusing Stewart of bias, I suspect he is not a Catholic and when he wrote those sections he didn't realize how they would read to someone who is Catholic, such as myself. But certainly, as I note in the conclusion, I hope that if there is a second edition of this book he excises the worst offending statements.

The Bad.

Stewart is wedded to his Masonic Allegory theory and so the book discards, ignores or minimizes any evidence that is contrary to that theory. Any theory or solution to the Beale must answer all reasonable raised questions, I've previously offered the example that his grid on page 71 has an interesting series of repeating letters which is completely unexplained by the Masonic Allegory theory (more on that later). The book examines in great detail the 23 "W"'s on the grid on page 88, but ignores the far more compelling F and R's on page 71's because they don't fit neatly into the Masonic Allegory theory.

Relatedly, any theory or solution to the Beale has to comport with the psychology behind the Beale. I'll focus on just one problem with the book in this regards, Stewart, correctly, notes the multiple re-occurances of the number "23" in the Beale Pages. Stewart even took the time to note that there are 23 comma differences between the Beale DOI and actual DOI. The Book's explanation for all these 23 are to link it to a particular Robert Morriss in the 18th Century. This is complete nonsense. If the Beale authors were interested in linking the Mason Morriss to the Papers, the inclusion of the DOI plus the mention of the Beale's Robt. Morriss would have been sufficient. The number 23 is far more meaningful that just as a means to link to a particular mason, but because this does not comport with the Masonic Theory, the book drops the discussion of 23 except for an interesting bit at the end with page 23 of the Beale.


The Good.

Despite my criticisms above, the book does have some good points and after Peter Viemeister's "The Beale Treasure" is the best book I've read on the Beale. Importantly, Stewart presents a solid debunking of what I call the "Must be Real" theory that the Beale Story is true on its face. Additionally, Stewart presents a lot of very helpful grids and information about Cipher Two, some of which I haven't read before. His grids on Ciphers One and Three are less helpful, but do make his point about Cipher kerning, which is also important. Stewart's evidence of deliberate kerning in the Ciphers debunks the "Dime Novel" theory.

Finally, there is certainly some interesting historical information on the Masons and original Illuminati that is of interest in itself, though the connections he tries to make between them and the Beale Cipher are unlikely.

Indeed, I'd recommend the book if it weren't for the issues outlined in the Ugly section above, if he fixes them in a subsequent printing I'd have no problem recommending the book with the caveat to take the Masonic Allegory theory with several large grains of salt.

Now back to Beale Psychology

I criticize Stewart above for the fact that his analysis of the repeating number 23 is that is just a reference to Robert Morriss signature in the DoI. I said this shows a lack of understanding of Beale Author Psychology. The same could be said of pretty much every person on this forum who purports to have found a solution or who thinks the Papers are simply a "Dime Novel".

Nothing is at it seems with the Beale, and if you are taking something at face value, then you are taking it wrong. Misdirection is always the name of the game with the Beale. I will use the example of the Grid on page 70 of Stewart's book. If you have the book you'll note immediately that Stewart uses empty spaces on the right side of the Grid to emphasize the kerning differences in the rows. Some rows have one or two empty spaces on the right (if they are 20 or 21 numbers long) others have more and the last line a lot more.

Stewart was correct to notice the kerning and he does some great analysis of Cipher Two but he ignores the (to me) glaringly obvious empty spaces. What he should have done is filled in those space with the letters on the left. Had he done so he would have noticed a very curious phenomenon in his grid on page 70: the right corner spells out "Fin" both horizontally and vertically, and if you think that's an accident give up on the Beale right now because you are not ready to play this game to the End (and, yes, you'll have to buy Stewart's book or do the work yourself to see what else shows up in the formerly empty spaces of his grid.).

This is of course, a very minor break of the Beale (and one that may lead to a dead end), but one that Stewart should have been able to figure out if hadn't been wedded to his Masonic Allegory.

And that is the point of this rant, the Beale is not going to be broken by a single person (unless that person has Divine help), in part because of limitations of any one person's expertise, and in part because of bias. Unfortunately, belief in the bullion treasure keeps folks from working together to solve it, well let me tell you if there is a treasure hid by the Beale, it's not in gold bullion. And that fact Paul Stewart got right.

Cheers

Trevor Dewey

The above, in bold, has been the bane of every claim or solution/remedy/etc., all of them being pre-focused areas of personal interest or pre-focused areas of personal selection, all of them ignoring contrary details and evidence that collide with the claims being made.

 

[The Enigmatist]

I wish I was moving around because I've been selling books. I'm from Virginia, have 4 kids, was working overseas, came back, had to get re-established here etc....oh and I wrote a book... What I'd LOVE to occur is a Beale "symposium" of sorts- take the best, most thought-out theories (meaning not inviting those who think Beale was actually an alien space Nazi from Planet 12), and over the course of a weekend, let these be presented and then "beaten up" so to speak.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

I wish I was moving around because I've been selling books. I'm from Virginia, have 4 kids, was working overseas, came back, had to get re-established here etc....oh and I wrote a book... What I'd LOVE to occur is a Beale "symposium" of sorts- take the best, most thought-out theories (meaning not inviting those who think Beale was actually an alien space Nazi from Planet 12), and over the course of a weekend, let these be presented and then "beaten up" so to speak.

Well, "Enig", I have been thinking of a "Non-profit", for EDUCATIONAL purposes; Treasure Hunter(s) University of Virginia. Focus is STRICTLY on "Treasures" in Virginia... based on Treasure Hunter University, out in the SW... Weekend Conference in Roanoke, Va. MORE, later...