Solved? more input needed on old no-name pistol

[dozer dan]

here are the pictures of my pistol. the only pictures i could find to match it is the griswold and gunnison. my pistol is .36 cal. brass frame with a round barrel. there is no name on it. the ser. # is in the 17,000s and stamped two times on the brass, one time on the cylinder, and one time under the barrel assembly. all ser. #s match. the ser #s are erratic as they are not aligned well. the rod is 2 piece construction, in the pictures you can see this. there also appeares to be a blood etched finger print on the underside of the barrel. one person i asked to examin it said he thought he saw a tiny stamping on the cylinder of a crescent moon with a star in it. i however do not see this.
i am grateful for your interest and any info you could provide. sorry about the pic's. im still catchin on. Dan

 

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[dozer dan]

Re: old no-name pistol

and

 

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[dozer dan]

Re: old no-name pistol

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[dozer dan]

Re: old no-name pistol

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[dozer dan]

Re: old no-name pistol

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[dozer dan]

Re: old no-name pistol

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[dozer dan]

Re: old no-name pistol

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[dozer dan]

Re: old no-name pistol

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[dozer dan]

Re: old no-name pistol

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[dozer dan]

Re: old no-name pistol

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[dozer dan]

Re: old no-name pistol

................finally

 

[Drache]

Re: old no-name pistol

Ok this picture shows the safety pin notch on the hammer!

I'm still wondering... the ramrod is made up of two parts because it was smaller made for a gun with say a 4" barrel, such as a colt pocket pistol in .36 Cal. It seems to have matching numbers to the cylinder and such.

 

[steif]

Re: old no-name pistol

From the looks of it it was a old kit from the 60's or 70's. If I remember right, the only thing they needed in the 60's was a serial number and since it was not complete that would agree with the lack of markings, they were not proofed since they were not a complete gun.

This is the new version of a particular kit at dixie, they are a lot different now, some kits you had to do a lot of filing and fitting to get all the parts together, they were really kits..lol...
http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?products_id=877

Like I said, the old kits were brought in with no markings except serials, and the numbers on most pieces were assembly numbers they would be different from actual serial numbers.

The slot on the face of the hammer was for the safety pins on the cylinder, I have seen these with and without the pins in the cylinder, and also with the pins beat and peened so much you can't tell they are there. some guys took them out, some left them in... some kits you had to drill the holes for the pins and assemble them yourself.

BUT, not having seen the pistol and not being able to directly measure it, who knows. but it looks to me that it has the patina and look of a old kit that was put together in the 60's

 

[dozer dan]

Re: old no-name pistol

this one has certain traits that i cant find on ANY repro or authentic pistol and
trust me when i say i have looked at a lot of them since i have been trying to find a match for mine.

1- brass frame

2- part round part octagon barrel

3- serial numbers

4- lack of name or country of origin

5- .36 cal choice of the south

so on and so forth, yada yada yada ect............

the 60's repro you refer to, surly there must be some still around. could you show me a
picture of a repro without a name or grind mark where it was removed?

 

[l.cutler]

Re: old no-name pistol

No gain twist rifling. The arbor doesn't show any real wear, it is usually one of the most heavily worn parts. Even the edges of the wedge slot are sharp. The edges of the hammer and trigger are very sharp and crisp. The ridges on the hammer spur show no wear. The recoil shield is clean and undamaged, very unusual for a brass framed revolver. I just don't see this as a 145 year old revolver. Give the NSSA forum a try or civilwarguns.com.

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

Re: old no-name pistol

this one has certain traits that i cant find on ANY repro or authentic pistol and
trust me when i say i have looked at a lot of them since i have been trying to find a match for mine.

1- brass frame

2- part round part octagon barrel

3- serial numbers

4- lack of name or country of origin

5- .36 cal choice of the south

so on and so forth, yada yada yada ect............

the 60's repro you refer to, surly there must be some still around. could you show me a
picture of a repro without a name or grind mark where it was removed?

I have a copy of Black Powder Gunsmithing (DBI Books, Northfield, IL) from 1978 and there is an article on assembling a Hawes 1851 Brass Frame .36 cal percussion revolver kit. The kit has rough, unblued steel parts and rough cast brass frame and each component had to be filed and fitted. Ther trigger and hammer do appear to be case hardened. Could also account for the uneven barrel "wear" you noted earlier - someone draw file finished on side more than the other. In one image the number "1326" is visible ahead of the trigger bow. Some stamped "proof(?)" marks and numbers on the barrel and frame but no writing that I can spot.

Hawes Firearms Co. 8224 Sunset Blvd, Los Angeles, CA 90046 sold the kits. The article doesn't mention other models but an image of the box shows four Colt type (open frame - three are brass framed), one Remington type (closed frame) and two side-hammer single shots - one flint & one percussion.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Re: old no-name pistol

The kit has rough, unblued steel parts and rough cast brass frame and each component had to be filed and fitted.

I never thought of that. I put together a muzzleloading kit in the 70;s and you are correct the kits come unblued. I thought that the bluing was somehow removed but maybe it never was. Also needed a lot of filing.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Re: old no-name pistol

Sorry to hear. Its still worth what you paid and I think it will fire.


I have a question. Can bluing be removed on gun metal to look like yours?

 

[Drache]

Re: old no-name pistol

Sorry to hear. Its still worth what you paid and I think it will fire.


I have a question. Can bluing be removed on gun metal to look like yours?

Bluing can wear off over time, I've seen many rifles from the 30's that are now mostly "silver" due to the bluing being rubbed off from use and over cleaning.

 

[steif]

Re: old no-name pistol

Hi,
All is not lost cause it is still a great looking pistol!
I'll take that over a poke in the eye anyday..lol...

As for the bluing, yes there are compounds and gunsmiths that specialize in aging new guns for cowboy action shooters to make them look old for show.

here is a good example of a guy doing it so his pistol looks good when going to a shoot....

http://members.cox.net/longshot_logan/Metal Antiquing.htm

I don't think that dan's pistol was done this way, that looks like just a unfinished kit pistol.
very cool display none the less.
As a side note, the estate sale he bought it at, the original owner might have bought it as original, who knows, I have seen several collectors get taken by a good replica!

 

[l.cutler]

Re: old no-name pistol

It is most definitely a doctored up repro, no question. All is not lost though, make sure it is all in good shape, take it out and shoot it, have fun!