Solomons Gold and Historys Great Treasures

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Well Talk !!

Do Jose de La Mancha

 

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[Not Peralta]

Real de Tayopa, SOMEBODY TALK np

 

[Oroblanco]

Real de Tayopa, SOMEBODY TALK np

Well until our amigo RWLJ returns, and NOT to speak for him by any means, but perhaps until he rejoins us here we can speculate?

For starters, what are your opinions about the location of Tarshish? The great Jewish/Roman historian Josephus, claimed that it was simply Tarsus in Cilicia (Asia Minor). I am convinced that this is not the case. Firstly, Tarsus was not founded until a couple of generations AFTER king Solomon reigned, and certainly was not known for producing masses of silver, much less would it take a long voyage over the sea to reach it. A caravan overland would be about as fast and cheap, certainly without the risk of pirates or shipwreck.

In my opinion (underline that) Tarshish of the Old Testament, was one and the same with the city state called Tartessus by the Greeks. The information available from ancient Greek sources is thin on Tartessus, but they located the city on the Atlantic coast of southwestern Spain, not far from the Pillars of Herakles, and these Tartessians controlled the seas of that region, with the strait being a choke point for any ship trying to come out of the Mediterranean. According to the Greek sources, Tartessus was extremely rich in silver, so rich that the first merchants (Phoenician and Greek) to visit there, threw away their anchors and cast new ones of silver, so as to carry more silver home. This spot is fairly close to modern day Cadiz, and recent discoveries of sunken ruins near Cadiz look to be the actual site of Tartessus. The Tartessians were also famous for their huge sailing ships, able to sail the open oceans, and were the model by which kings David, Solomon and Jehoshaphat built their own, in order to safely cross the oceans.

We also have info in the book of Job, that ancient Hebrew ships could sail to Tarshish by sailing WEST from the port of Joppa, which indeed would be the logical route. Yet this is not where Solomon built his fleet of ships, he had over 100 camels haul pre-cut assemblies across the Sinai to Ezion-geber, and set sail from there - if you look on a map, you will see that this makes little sense, to sail EAST to reach Tarshish, when you could much more easily reach it by sailing WEST.

This raises an issue for according to the Old Testament, the 'navy' of king Solomon sailed for Ophir and Tarshish out of the port of Ezion-geber, not Joppa which would be a much shorter passage to reach SW Spain. It makes no sense at all, unless the squadron had a very different, and very distant additional port of call in their voyage, which indeed they did - Ophir. Where could Ophir be?

***Side point here but that "navy" of king Solomon was only 12 ships, see the works of Philo of Alexandria; this makes sense so as to have one ship for each of the 12 tribes, and not a huge navy as we might imagine by that term today.

We also have one more piece of information that helps locate Ophir - that the voyage took three years. Various different theorists have proposed a variety of locations for Ophir, from Zimbabwe in Africa to the coast of India or even closer, none of which makes sense for none require a three year voyage. India and Africa could be reached overland for that matter, no ships needed. Why three years for a round trip?

The first two explorers to make a round-the-world voyage, Magellan (whom died and did not complete the voyage but his ship did) and Drake, required three years to do it. This allowed for time spent at various stops along the way, to replenish the fresh water supplies if nothing else. Were the ancient seafarers of Solomon, sailing right around the world? I say yes indeed - in fact there is a piece of evidence that indicates that these voyages sent out by Solomon, did not return to Ezion-geber, but at Joppa! That would explain how the ships could visit Ophir, and also stop at Tarshish, and also explains why later kings of Judea like Jehoshaphat and one other whose name escapes me at the moment but if anyone wishes that king's name I will be happy to look it up, had to construct a new fleet at Ezion-geber when they regained control of it, as that port and the region around it were lost soon after king Solomon had died. Apparently when Solomon died, his fleet was not in Ezion-geber, perhaps in Joppa, and the loss of the port meant that his ships could not return there - meaning that later kings whom wished to attempt the voyage had to build new ships to do it.

There are other tidbits that help identify where Ophir might be, in the other products brought from there to the homeland; one of these products was "Almug wood" also written Algum. Josephus stated that it was simply a large pine. I suspect this Almug wood was American mahogany! However if it were pine, the Americas were famous for our quality pine forests for centuries; even the Norse explorers and colonists whom followed Leif Eriksson made it a point to cut American timber for sale back in Europe.

Some of the early Spanish explorers concluded that Ophir was and is, Peru! In support of this, they found ancient mine workings dotting the Andes, including ancient tools like a bronze crowbar, which we know the Incas nor any other local peoples had made bronze. The name Ophir and Peru are etymologically identical too.

I am getting carried away here, just thought I would toss out some speculation and let things get flowing again, comments/opinions are welcome (including complete disagreement on every point) thank you in advance.
Oroblanco

 

[Springfield]

... In my opinion (underline that) Tarshish of the Old Testament, was one and the same with the city state called Tartessus by the Greeks. The information available from ancient Greek sources is thin on Tartessus, but they located the city on the Atlantic coast of southwestern Spain, not far from the Pillars of Herakles, and these Tartessians controlled the seas of that region, with the strait being a choke point for any ship trying to come out of the Mediterranean. According to the Greek sources, Tartessus was extremely rich in silver, so rich that the first merchants (Phoenician and Greek) to visit there, threw away their anchors and cast new ones of silver, so as to carry more silver home. This spot is fairly close to modern day Cadiz, and recent discoveries of sunken ruins near Cadiz look to be the actual site of Tartessus....
Oroblanco

That's a fantastic part of today's Spain - layer upon layer of history. I read a little about Tartessus when I was in Tarifa, and it seems like the experts place it at the mouth of the Guadalquivir River - near Cadiz. That large river is tidal with very little grade inland, which was a great access into the metal district to the north. In fact, Seville sits 50 or 60 miles upstream from the ocean and served as the 'port city' for Spain until the Guadalquivir silted up at the delta. Seems like a good strategic location for Iberian miners and Atlantic seafarers.

 

[Not Peralta]

Oroblanco and Springfield, great history , lets hear more, np would say more just waking up and having my first cup of

 

[Oroblanco]

Oroblanco and Springfield, great history , lets hear more, np would say more just waking up and having my first cup of

No opinions?

What about Ophir? Do you think it is one single spot, or could it be really referring to a number of places?

I believe that Ophir is not a single spot, Peru may well be the 'main' place known to the ancient Hebrews as Ophir, but clearly in their voyages they also stopped at India where they obtained peacocks, possibly Africa or SE Asia where monkeys were obtained.

Have to sign off and get back to work, will try to pop in later this evening.
Oroblanco

In the meantime:

 

[Not Peralta]

RWLJ, ITS EARLY TIME FOR A GOOD CUP OF and conversation. np

 

[sailaway]

Oro you must remember I lived there and saw exactly where you are talking about every day growing up. Cadiz is wonderful but would place your city of Tartessas a little farther south, like Conil de la Frontera. Conil de la Frontera is a small coastal village that features a beautiful beach and several artisan craft shops. Sancti Petri is a small, offshore island located just north of Conil de la Frontera. It features the remains of a temple to the Greek God Hercules and the Torre de Guzman, which is the ruins of an Arab castle built on top of Roman ruins. look up Trafalgar, Spain. I visited this area and can remember seeing Roman foundations with great Mosaics on them that were going into the sea.
The thing about what we are reading here on this thread is that it is limited to denouncing one site for another. I however believe that because of what I have found is that there are many places with the same exact history with the same Spirits involved all relating to where on the geographic grid they happened. There is more than one Horse of the maps, and more than one Priest. The farther we get from the vortex in Arizona the farther the clues are from each other. Africa is a horses head which makes the Middle East a Priest according to the stone maps.The ears of the horse is where the priest lay. RWLJ I like where your mind is except you need to be more open minded of things outside the LDS. You have blinders on and yet telling us to open our eyes, take a look at my thread Survey of the Mina Virgon and you will see many similarities to your belief. I relate this whole exercise back to the Parable of how can you tell another to get the stick out of their eye, when you have the whole tree in your own eye?

 

[Ddiamond Digger]

RWLJ...
Ok then.... it has been six years since your informative posts..... I am sure Not Peralta and Oroblanco and a few of us readers here would love to see a little proof.... You know you had time to go get lots of proof, at least... a picture of some gold on site with the stamp, mark sign of Solomon..... An Artefact will do something amazing, as you have stated you know where it is.... No need to remove it... Just take your mobile phone date stamp it and post the picture/video. I am sure more people will give your words more credence if you can Show and Tell...
It is after all why we are here... treasure.
I had fun reading this bit however I tend to go where I can see feel and taste stuff..
Sorry for using the big guys names in vain here!
DD