Ship Bell Found

[BillA]

or trying to avoid the consequences . . . . .

 

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[MiddenMonster]

meaning, found something valuable and is gone..or found nothing and is gone?

or trying to avoid the consequences . . . . .

Or trying to scam us, thinks we are trying to scam him/her, kidnapped by pirates, etc. Could be anything at this point, but Occam's Razor would indicate that the simplest solution is usually the correct one. And the people here that do this for a living have probably been down this road many times and know what is likely correct and what isn't.

 

[Magoopeter]

Just looking through a book on cannons, the same design appears on cannons made in Lisbon Portugal, the dates of the canons that I can see are from 1568 to 1660. This design has been found on Spanish cannons also. The intro to the Lisbon section states,

From 1580 to 1640, for dynastic reasons, Portugal (but not its overseas empire) was
placed under the Crown of Spain, King Philip the Second of Spain being, in Portugal,
King Philip the First (as inscribed, namely, on the artillery pieces cast in Portugal at that
period).



I know nothing of plants but if anyone would know what plant it is and why it would have been important or the symbolic meaning of the plant?

 

[ARC]

View attachment 1752839
Just looking through a book on cannons, the same design appears on cannons made in Lisbon Portugal, the dates of the canons that I can see are from 1568 to 1660. This design has been found on Spanish cannons also. The intro to the Lisbon section states,

From 1580 to 1640, for dynastic reasons, Portugal (but not its overseas empire) was
placed under the Crown of Spain, King Philip the Second of Spain being, in Portugal,
King Philip the First (as inscribed, namely, on the artillery pieces cast in Portugal at that
period).

View attachment 1752840

I know nothing of plants but if anyone would know what plant it is and why it would have been important or the symbolic meaning of the plant?

I dropped off this thread but saw in active topics you posted so I was curious to what you had to say...

Before dropping off the thread I too found the same "motifs" that you have found but did not post further...

But now that you have... I will again sorta bump along back into this... with saying first... you are the first to find / post it here.

Now... with this said... I will also say this...

First.. yes ... agreed... Portuguese.

Second .. yes again agreed... 1500's

Third... not agreed on last part.

 

[Magoopeter]

Not sure what you mean by third part. I think in previous posts, palmetto plant is mentioned, I was looking for a connection to a plant and a ship, you’ll be familiar with The Narvaez expedition, Spanish journey of exploration and colonization started in 1527, they got into a bit of trouble to say the least.


Narvaez expedition 1528.

After a few days stuck near the shallow waters, one man came up with a plan: he suggested to forge their weaponry and armour to make tools and to build new boats to sail to Mexico, the party agreed.

They constructed a forge out of a log and used deerskins for the bellows. They cut down trees and made charcoal for the forge. Then they made hammers, saws, axes, and nails out of their iron gear. Caulking was made from the pitch of pine trees, and palmetto leaves were used as oakum.
It is interesting how a bell can open up so much debate, but very interesting wreck site, it would be good to know f other artefacts had been found as they may help date the site or ID the wreck?

 

[BillA]

re-tilling the same old field, a common decorative motif across many cultures and thousands of years
lots of names, stylistic differences by which they can be identified

the (dinner) bell will probably be identified via a metallurgical analysis, and from there to ?

 

[Magoopeter]

I would say the person who found this knows exactly what it is and what ship it came from, you would have to have a reason to be looking to find it, , as Rex Cowan would say, “you first find a wreck on paper and then in the sea or you first find a wreck in the sea and then on paper”. The guy that started the post is pulling our leg so to speak? But still a good subject, good posts and information, shared, the members of the site have deposited a wealth of knowledge into this site, making it a great repository of information on shipwrecks and their artefacts.

 

[ARC]

Not sure what you mean by third part. I think in previous posts, palmetto plant is mentioned, I was looking for a connection to a plant and a ship, you’ll be familiar with The Narvaez expedition, Spanish journey of exploration and colonization started in 1527, they got into a bit of trouble to say the least.

Narvaez expedition 1528.

After a few days stuck near the shallow waters, one man came up with a plan: he suggested to forge their weaponry and armour to make tools and to build new boats to sail to Mexico, the party agreed.

They constructed a forge out of a log and used deerskins for the bellows. They cut down trees and made charcoal for the forge. Then they made hammers, saws, axes, and nails out of their iron gear. Caulking was made from the pitch of pine trees, and palmetto leaves were used as oakum.
It is interesting how a bell can open up so much debate, but very interesting wreck site, it would be good to know f other artefacts had been found as they may help date the site or ID the wreck?

Yep. Quite familiar.

In fact... I don't think many are much more familiar...

I spent years as a child at the exact spot in which he landed.

 

[Doubter in MD]

<snip>

the (dinner) bell will probably be identified via a metallurgical analysis, and from there to ?

Dinner bell! I love it! Spot on.

 

[xaos]

But still a good subject, good posts and information, shared, the members of the site have deposited a wealth of knowledge into this site, making it a great repository of information on shipwrecks and their artefacts.

Concur! the wealth, depth , and breath of knowledge on TNET is incredible.

(unless about Oak Island..not sure what happened there )

 

[BillA]

a possibly fruitful line of investigation would be to look at "hand bells" as contrasted with ship's bell
the size is correct and a handle could have been affixed

an old hand bell for reference (having nothing to do with this more modern one)

http://www.thehistoryblog.com/archives/56680 (see comments, informative)



a hand bell for our picture addicted

 

[ARC]

Hand bell ? lol

 

[ivan salis]

Ao = latin for Anno ordo ---year of the order --term used by the knights templar and catholic church --being a researcher and a catholic and the son of master of a masonic lodge

churches are often named after saints --the churches bells often have their names upon them --like St. Stephan or such ...check the letters with known saints names likely you find a match

 

[sailaway]

In 1670 Commissions were granted in Jamaica to the Breatheren of the Coast against the Spanish. Admiral Henry Morgan put out a call to all Buccaneers to gather off Hispaniola. 36 ships arrived to sail with Morgan to Sac Panama. In all 1500 Pirates showed up to join the plundering.
here is a partial list:
1. Le Cerf Volant renamed Satisfaction, Morgans Flagship after the ship Oxford's magazine explodes off Cow Cay eastern Hispaniola.
2. Mayflower, captained by John Bradley ( Morgan's #2 )
3. Pearl, owned by John Morris
4. Virgin Queen
5. Dolphin
6. San Pedro y la Fama, captured while in route to rendezvous with Morgan by the Dolphin in a bay on Cuba
7. La Gallardina, captured while gathering supplies for the fleet on Rio Nicaragua
8. Thomas
9. Lilly
10. Fortune
11. St. Catherine (French)
12. Endeavour
13. Prosperous

John Bradley was sent in advance of the main fleet with 470 buccaneers to capture the Spanish fortification San Lorenzo. He arrived at the fort on December 26th, 1670.
Bradley defeats the Spanish and 5 days later on January 25th, 1671 Morgan arrives. 5 ships of the Flotilla strike the reef known as "Laja" distracted by the English flag raised by Bradly over the fort. 10 Buccaneers drown along with the only woman who was thought to be a witch giving the rest of the buccaneers great comfort that she was gone. Morgan removed the men and supplies to other vessels because a strong north wind was blowing and made it impossible to remove the stricken boats. Many of these boats that sunk were so small they could not handle even 1 cannon with its supplies and manpower...used mainly for troop transport. Could this be why the bell is so small? I know my own 37 foot sailboat has the same exact size bell on her.

 

[BillA]

and the boat's name . . . . Big Bells ?

 

[Skream1]

Acanthus and possibly Acacia stylized leaves. It has shown up on many earlier Cannons, before the European wars made the decorative elements on the cannons a costly thing. Function over form. But, a very good bit of input.

 

[Blak bart]

Just as I said many posts ago !! I've only tried to answer the ops original question. Common motif going as far back as greece !!

 

[Blak bart]

I would start in Jamaica...I believe its slave records and maritime traffic that you need to access for info. Havana is your next stop....if you can gain access. These will have far more info on local Caribbean traffic than spain. Remember that local officials of the time might intentionally hold back possible damaging info from officials in spain for fear of repercussions !! Your ships name will possibly be there. Jamaica may possibly have some of the 50 or more unnamed english wrecks in the area. Havana will have the names of many spanish coastal cruisers that traveled throughout the Caribbean. Good luck skream 1

 

[Blak bart]

On a side note I'm currently delivering a yacht from NC to the Florida keys. I got to stay in one of the state rooms instead of the crew cabin this trip.....low and behold what do I see in the bathroom ? A marble soap dish with acanthus leaf motif.....still in use today so many years later. Still a common design theme !!

 

[Doubter in MD]

So how big is the yacht?