Roman Metal Working Site - Day 5- Roman Silver & Treasure Ring...

[CRUSADER]

It's starting to get a bit cooler & the layers are being added. We made the most of a somewhat wet day by squeezing in a 3 hour hunt during the best window. Only got a bit wet at the end.
We were aiming for a Roman Silver or a Celtic Silver, we felt this should be possible with the larger turn the field had. It took until after lunch but I finally found one.

18 Scrappies
Bit of Roman Bracelet
1793 South Wales Farthing - A scarce token I had no idea about. A good looking addition to the Token collection.
AD201 Roman Denarius of Sept Sev.
OTWBTTC - Roman Silver Ring (I picked it off the top) - Declarable Treasure.

 

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[cudamark]

Nice!

 

[pepperj]

Well done getting a couple of Roman silvers.

 

[Mackaydon]

Congrats on the Sept Sev--Fuvndator Pacis" (the Founder of Peace) on the reverse.
Don in SoCal

 

[mindcrime1988]

Sweet looking token.

 

[E-Trac-Ohio]

Excellent finds - well done !

 

[Almy]

It's a nice assortment of finds.
Without knowledge, that silver ring would not be recognized as a treasure, I think.

 

[Urien of Rheged]

Finding just one of those "scrappies" would absolutely make my day, looking like some 4th century sestertius showing there is a nice continuation of occupation during that Romano British era at that fantastic site youve got there.
I like reading really old antiquarian books especially old historical accounts that tend to differ from modern narratives? sometimes very much too.
I dont know what the modern scholars say but according to the accounts of old, Severus lost a staggering 50.000 men campaigning in the north (he wasnt fighting the Scots who where still living in Ireland at that time)
And all of the old chronicles pre 20th century going right back to the Monk Bede in the 7th century credit the building of "Hadrians" wall to Severus. In fact it was known anciently in the native British tongue as the "Gwal Sevyr".
....thought I'd just add.😃

 

[Gene Mean]

Very nice
Let us know if you can see etching on the ring, what symbols, if any.

 

[The Rebel]

Freaking awesome finds!

 

[ironhorse]

I'm a token guy so that's the winner for me although silver treasure trumps all that...well done
happy days

 

[ArfieBoy]

Way to go Crusader! Another heap of Congratulations!

 

[Red-Coat]

Finding just one of those "scrappies" would absolutely make my day, looking like some 4th century sestertius showing there is a nice continuation of occupation during that Romano British era at that fantastic site youve got there.
I like reading really old antiquarian books especially old historical accounts that tend to differ from modern narratives? sometimes very much too.
I dont know what the modern scholars say but according to the accounts of old, Severus lost a staggering 50.000 men campaigning in the north (he wasnt fighting the Scots who where still living in Ireland at that time)
And all of the old chronicles pre 20th century going right back to the Monk Bede in the 7th century credit the building of "Hadrians" wall to Severus. In fact it was known anciently in the native British tongue as the "Gwal Sevyr".
....thought I'd just add.😃

Some great finds here.

Just to follow up on Hadrian's Wall:

It was built on the orders of Hadrian following his visit to Britain in AD 122. Septimius Severus didn’t become Emperor until AD 192, arrived in Britain in AD 208 and died there in AD 211.

For sure Severus repaired and strengthened the existing Hadrian's Wall and reoccupied the existing Antonine Wall, but didn’t commission either of them. Severus, together with his eldest son Caracalla, campaigned in Caledonia with the intention of subduing all of Britain into the Roman Empire but the mission was an expensive failure, with abandonment of the small gains in Caledonia

Subsequently, and probably to save face, Caracalla paraded it as a success. Much of the erroneous information in 4th Century accounts which focusses on the success of a wall claimed to have been built by Severus to protect the border likely originates from Caracalla. For example:

“… after driving out the enemy, he protected Britain, as far as it was useful, with a wall led across the island to the Ocean at both ends.” (Aurelius Victor Liber de Caesaribus - c. AD 360.)

“… in order to protect the recovered provinces with all security, he led a wall for 133 miles from sea to sea.” (Eutropius Breviarium Ab Urbe Condita VIII - c. AD 370)

“… to make the recovered provinces more secure from barbarian invasion, he led a wall for 132 miles from sea to sea.” (Jerome Chronicon - c. AD 380)

Hadrian’s wall is actually 73 miles long (80 Roman miles).

Bede, writing later, accepted most of these and other accounts by the British cleric Gildas as factual and later wrote: “… he [Severus] thought that the recovered part of the island should be separated from the other, unconquered, tribes, not with a wall, as some reckon, but with a rampart. For a wall is made of stones, but a rampart, with which camps are protected against enemy attack, is made of turfs, cut from the earth and raised high above the ground like a wall, having in front of it the ditch from which the turfs have been lifted, with strong stakes of wood fixed above it. Severus therefore led a great ditch and a very strong rampart, fortified as well with frequent towers, from sea to sea.”

Bede came to the wrong conclusion. Archaeological evidence from 1911 conclusively proves that Hadrian’s Wall and the associated vallum earthworks built a few years later were commissioned and built in the time of Hadrian, not Severus.

 

[Urien of Rheged]

Some great finds here.

Just to follow up on Hadrian's Wall:

It was built on the orders of Hadrian following his visit to Britain in AD 122. Septimius Severus didn’t become Emperor until AD 192, arrived in Britain in AD 208 and died there in AD 211.

For sure Severus repaired and strengthened the existing Hadrian's Wall and reoccupied the existing Antonine Wall, but didn’t commission either of them. Severus, together with his eldest son Caracalla, campaigned in Caledonia with the intention of subduing all of Britain into the Roman Empire but the mission was an expensive failure, with abandonment of the small gains in Caledonia

Subsequently, and probably to save face, Caracalla paraded it as a success. Much of the erroneous information in 4th Century accounts which focusses on the success of a wall claimed to have been built by Severus to protect the border likely originates from Caracalla. For example:

“… after driving out the enemy, he protected Britain, as far as it was useful, with a wall led across the island to the Ocean at both ends.” (Aurelius Victor Liber de Caesaribus - c. AD 360.)

“… in order to protect the recovered provinces with all security, he led a wall for 133 miles from sea to sea.” (Eutropius Breviarium Ab Urbe Condita VIII - c. AD 370)

“… to make the recovered provinces more secure from barbarian invasion, he led a wall for 132 miles from sea to sea.” (Jerome Chronicon - c. AD 380)

Hadrian’s wall is actually 73 miles long (80 Roman miles).

Bede, writing later, accepted most of these and other accounts by the British cleric Gildas as factual and later wrote: “… he [Severus] thought that the recovered part of the island should be separated from the other, unconquered, tribes, not with a wall, as some reckon, but with a rampart. For a wall is made of stones, but a rampart, with which camps are protected against enemy attack, is made of turfs, cut from the earth and raised high above the ground like a wall, having in front of it the ditch from which the turfs have been lifted, with strong stakes of wood fixed above it. Severus therefore led a great ditch and a very strong rampart, fortified as well with frequent towers, from sea to sea.”

Bede came to the wrong conclusion. Archaeological evidence from 1911 conclusively proves that Hadrian’s Wall and the associated vallum earthworks built a few years later were commissioned and built in the time of Hadrian, not Severus.

Some great finds here.

Just to follow up on Hadrian's Wall:

It was built on the orders of Hadrian following his visit to Britain in AD 122. Septimius Severus didn’t become Emperor until AD 192, arrived in Britain in AD 208 and died there in AD 211.

For sure Severus repaired and strengthened the existing Hadrian's Wall and reoccupied the existing Antonine Wall, but didn’t commission either of them. Severus, together with his eldest son Caracalla, campaigned in Caledonia with the intention of subduing all of Britain into the Roman Empire but the mission was an expensive failure, with abandonment of the small gains in Caledonia

Subsequently, and probably to save face, Caracalla paraded it as a success. Much of the erroneous information in 4th Century accounts which focusses on the success of a wall claimed to have been built by Severus to protect the border likely originates from Caracalla. For example:

“… after driving out the enemy, he protected Britain, as far as it was useful, with a wall led across the island to the Ocean at both ends.” (Aurelius Victor Liber de Caesaribus - c. AD 360.)

“… in order to protect the recovered provinces with all security, he led a wall for 133 miles from sea to sea.” (Eutropius Breviarium Ab Urbe Condita VIII - c. AD 370)

“… to make the recovered provinces more secure from barbarian invasion, he led a wall for 132 miles from sea to sea.” (Jerome Chronicon - c. AD 380)

Hadrian’s wall is actually 73 miles long (80 Roman miles).

Bede, writing later, accepted most of these and other accounts by the British cleric Gildas as factual and later wrote: “… he [Severus] thought that the recovered part of the island should be separated from the other, unconquered, tribes, not with a wall, as some reckon, but with a rampart. For a wall is made of stones, but a rampart, with which camps are protected against enemy attack, is made of turfs, cut from the earth and raised high above the ground like a wall, having in front of it the ditch from which the turfs have been lifted, with strong stakes of wood fixed above it. Severus therefore led a great ditch and a very strong rampart, fortified as well with frequent towers, from sea to sea.”

Bede came to the wrong conclusion. Archaeological evidence from 1911 conclusively proves that Hadrian’s Wall and the associated vallum earthworks built a few years later were commissioned and built in the time of Hadrian, not Severus.

I think Hadrian sending over Julius Severus as governor added to the confusion with Septimus Severus.
Though I've seen proponents of the Severan wall state that Hadrian constructed the earthen bank, ditch and vallum and that he also constructed the Stangate road and with the building of forts like that at Corbridge. They then credit Severus with the building of the stone wall And milecastles in the early third century.

The British accounts claim that the leader or Pendragon of the northern tribes rhat fought against Severus was a man called Fulgentius (latinized)
In these old native accounts though this Fulgentius not only thwarts this Roman invasion of Caledonia but chased them back to York, besieged the city and killed Severus. This Fulgentius being mortally wounded too during the siege.
No idea what if any sources he had but Fulgentius turns up in the Scottish historian John of Fordun's account and into Arthurian legend. In John's "history" Arthur's sister Anna marries the great great grandson of Fulgentius, Mordred. It is Mordred' s ancestry that gives him a legititmate claim to the throne and a rivalry with his brother in law.

 

[CRUSADER]

It's a nice assortment of finds.
Without knowledge, that silver ring would not be recognized as a treasure, I think.

100% it will. Over 300 years old with 10 or more percent Gold or Silver content. I've had about 10 Roman Silver Rings already classified as Treasure.

 

[CRUSADER]

Very nice
Let us know if you can see etching on the ring, what symbols, if any.

None on this example.

 

[CRUSADER]

I'm a token guy so that's the winner for me although silver treasure trumps all that...well done
happy days

Actually, because I never knew this token existed & because its scarce & in good order, I already thought it trumped the Silver. (even though I had only had 1 broken piece of this example)

 

[Red-Coat]

I think Hadrian sending over Julius Severus as governor added to the confusion with Septimus Severus.
Though I've seen proponents of the Severan wall state that Hadrian constructed the earthen bank, ditch and vallum and that he also constructed the Stangate road and with the building of forts like that at Corbridge. They then credit Severus with the building of the stone wall And milecastles in the early third century.

The British accounts claim that the leader or Pendragon of the northern tribes rhat fought against Severus was a man called Fulgentius (latinized)
In these old native accounts though this Fulgentius not only thwarts this Roman invasion of Caledonia but chased them back to York, besieged the city and killed Severus. This Fulgentius being mortally wounded too during the siege.
No idea what if any sources he had but Fulgentius turns up in the Scottish historian John of Fordun's account and into Arthurian legend. In John's "history" Arthur's sister Anna marries the great great grandson of Fulgentius, Mordred. It is Mordred' s ancestry that gives him a legititmate claim to the throne and a rivalry with his brother in law.

The story of Fulgentius besieging York and killing Severus is a myth, deriving from ‘Historia Brittonum’ attributed to the Welsh monk Nennius c. AD 830. However, it appears to be a hotch-potch compiled from multiple earlier sources including Gildas' ‘De Excidio et Conquestu Britanniae’ written some three centuries earlier. The work has become a major contributor to the Arthurian legend but conflates a number of unrelated tales into a single mythology:

“Fulgentius having been active in procuring the assistance of the Picts, collected from Scythia all the forces of that country, and besieged York.” [Scythian territory was in Eastern Europe and a long way from Britain!]

In fact, after Severus and Caracalla campaigned in Caledonia suffering heavy casulaties, they prematurely declared victory in AD 209-210 after the British tribes ceded some territory. For this (partial) achievement, they pretentiously assumed the title ‘Britannicus.’

The so called ‘victory’ was short lived since it was followed by a revolt by the Maeatae tribes in the north (quickly joined by the Caledonii) that was harshly put down by Caracalla. Severus was in poor health, having suffered from debilitating bouts of gout during the later years of his life. He was unable to join battle in person and had retreated to York where he died of natural causes on 4 February AD 211. Caracalla (and Severus’ other son, Geta) then gave up on the mission to conquer Caledonia, concluding a peace with the Caledonians that returned the border of Roman Britain to the line demarcated by Hadrian's Wall. Caracalla nevertheless portrayed this as ‘mission accomplished.’

 

[jewelerguy]

Always love seeing your Roman finds. In the last pic, the ring appears to have some design on the top and possibly the sides. Very hard to tell though.

 

[Urien of Rheged]

“Fulgentius having been active in procuring the assistance of the Picts, collected from Scythia all the forces of that country, and besieged York.” [Scythian territory was in Eastern Europe and a long way from Britain!]

I'm not suggesting that you and academia have it all wrong just to clarify, I'm just saying that the old narratives dont always concur with the new.
With regards to Fulgentius gathering the forces of Scythia. I'm sure you'll be aware that in the Scottish declaration of independence, the declaration of Arbroath it is stated that the Scots are of Scythian origin (this particular myth claims they actually journeyed to Egypt where the the princess Scotia married the Scythian leader before moving up to Ireland. Perhaps the reference to Scythia here is actually Ireland? It is during that thid century when the Scots Irish first appear on the western coasts.
Fascinating stuff made even more fascinating by it's relative obscurity and mystery