Riddle me this my brother can you handle it........

[SOHIO]

Ok jumping off gatorboys thread and some talk about legalities......I notice the topic of legal issues comes up here and there on this forum, but hardly is there ever talk about morality. Take for an example that, to the state, burials are considered artifacts and treated accordingly. They're boxed up, filed away in drawers and shelves etc....the thinking I'm presuming of the state and archaeological endeavors is to preserve a historical record. I know I'm going to sound contradictory in my next statements because I am a hunter but If you ask me I side with the views of some archaeologists that EVERYTHING should belong to the state down to the flake you find in your driveway. I myself have been on many many sites that could have been protected and studied and added to the historical record. I feel that if you have a true interest in lithic studies then you should feel the same moral obligation to want to preserve what is found in a better way. Of course being able to have this "hold" on everything everyone finds would be impossible and too far gone of an idea nowadays, I think if better laws protecting archaeological sites were put in place earlier in the early 1900s then the record today would hold a broader understanding of the information we seek.....which when you step back ... is there anything to keep us engrossed in finding out when corn was first used or why the adena and hopewells disappeared....what good does it really do for mankind to know everything about early man......when i speak of morality I am questioning whether or not its ok for hunters to just keep busting into new shelters or middens or god forbid a mound, and keep destroying whats left to be recorded....and yeah yeah ive heard the it was disturbed before me thing. Or should we have a more moral obligation to do this hobby the right way because thats what it is unless you have a degree...you can try pretending your an amateur archaeologist all you want but unless you get the degree your nothing but a potholer...so that then leaves the question ...are you ok with being a "POTHOLER" I guess for now I'll keep on the potholing side of things but i wish there were better laws protecting some of whats left like shelters

 

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[katdancing]

Sohio, Thank you for "speaking from your heart".
Your honesty is refreshing. Merry Christmas !

Katdancing

 

[SOHIO]

MERRY CHRISTMAS !!!!

 

[GatorBoy]

I agree with everything you just said.....to a point...... I would like to add that alot of sites have and will be destroyed by mans "progress " or sprawl" as I look at it. Even when archaeologists are done with a site.. there are alot of artifacts that will be desroeyd. Most sites are not going to add much if anything to what is already documented..once its established that the "necessary " information has been extracted the money stops and so does the work.they are not there to add to their collection. If a site is not sufficiently stratified to produce a clear timeline and correlation between artifacts the items themselves are of little interest. If the amateurs.." potholers" as you have decided to call yourself.. personally I've done more than enough research and study to proudly call myself an avocational archaeologist..... and professionals could work together as a team a far larger percentage of these wonderful gifts from "our" homeland would be saved and appreciated.

 

[tomclark]

"you can try pretending your an amateur archaeologist all you want but unless you get the degree your nothing but a potholer."

That's what you said. So, you don't get to see my paleos. Ratholer, not potholer. I am an amateur/avocational archaeologist. I've spent more time in the field than many a degreed archie. In Florida, most archies don't cooperate with amateurs at all, all other states will follow.

 

[NC field hunter]

"you can try pretending your an amateur archaeologist all you want but unless you get the degree your nothing but a potholer."

That's what you said. So, you don't get to see my paleos. Ratholer, not potholer. I am an amateur/avocational archaeologist. I've spent more time in the field than many a degreed archie. In Florida, most archies don't cooperate with amateurs at all, all other states will follow.

I agree Tom ! Education is soooo over rated. I could get on my soap box here, but this isn't the place.

 

[The Grim Reaper]

SOHIO, if you feel that you are doing something immoral then donate all of your pieces to a museum so they can box it all up and it will never be seen again. Or better yet, it will be stored until they run out of room and then it will be tossed away with the garbage. I think the avocational archaeologist is doing them a favor by collecting and preserving these artifacts that will otherwise be destroyed or lost forever.

 

[tomclark]

Isn't this the point where the Pot that Calls the Kettle Black/Pot Stirrer says, "Does the Florida Historical Commission know about you?" I'm still PO'ed about that. I don't forget threatening posts to anyone on any of the forums I visit.
The FHC has done more to alienate amateurs/collectors in this state than any other agency, to the detriment of Knowlege that used to be given freely and happily.

 

[Glenn C]

I do not believe one must give money to a school for a paper to say that you have read there books. This is what the library is for.

 

[GatorBoy]

Isn't this the point where the Pot that Calls the Kettle Black/Pot Stirrer says, "Does the Florida Historical Commission know about you?" I'm still PO'ed about that. I don't forget threatening posts to anyone on any of the forums I visit.
The FHC has done more to alienate amateurs/collectors in this state than any other agency, to the detriment of Knowlege that used to be given freely and happily.

I remember that specific Post... And most of that thread myself.

 

[rock]

Id have to say the pot has been stirred. So I will not add to this and hope nobody else will either. Happy Holidays Everyone! Thanks, rock

 

[newnan man]

What happened to the Pumice thread?!

 

[GatorBoy]

It went poof

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

What happened to the Pumice thread?!

Thread was locked and moved to quarantine.

 

[GatorBoy]

Good choice

 

[newnan man]

What for?

 

[SOHIO]

Sohio, Thank you for "speaking from your heart".
Your honesty is refreshing. Merry Christmas !

Katdancing

Maybe you guys should adopt katdancings point of view

 

[NC field hunter]

Unless you are Marty McFly, you can read, think, and hypothesize to the point of being institutionalized. Education or none. All you have is theory and hypothesis. Is it worth while? To a degree.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

What for?

It was moved to quarantee because of some of the posts in it..... It was not in TreasureNets best interest to have it so it was removed.....

 

[Charl]

I don't think all states treat "burials are considered artifacts" the way you describe, and boxed away. In RI, a member of the Narragansetts must be consulted on any digs by state and federal agencies, and there is very close cooperation between the Narragansett Historical Preservation Officer and the state archaeologist. Any burials encountered in construction of state roads, construction is halted and the Narragansetts are notified and their input is what counts. It is no longer politically correct, for instance, to simply cart away burial offerings, often very fine artifacts, to museums. On the contrary, museums that receive federal funds, to any degree, must return these artifacts to tribes that can demonstrate historical relationship. Not always easy, or with quick resolution, as in the Kennewick Man case. In any case, this law does not apply to states but state archaeologists are certainly aware of it. point being, just think it's simplistic and a bit mis-leading to say the state considered burials to be considered artifacts:

Native American Graves Protection and Repatriation Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Tom, I'm not familiar with the thread folks refer to or your experience. I'm sure you speak the truth.