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Oregon Viking said:
My thoughts. If you own it you better be prepared to use it. Club, bottle knife, gun. Stick. ball point pen....
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Just have to remember your family depends on you for their defense and for you to come home to support and be there as a husband and father....

It is a simple choice to remember, your families protection and security or a thugs right to terrorize another family...
 

Treasure_Hunter said:
9mm has more stopping power than .38... You will be fine with 9mm...

"The 9mm Luger meets these requirements with quality ammunition just as good as the .40 S&W and 45 ACP. The FBI 9mm test don't lie! Any brand of premium 9mm 124gr or 147gr JHP has the stopping power do the job!

My favorite is the 124gr hollowpoint ammo for defense. I use any brand I can get a good deal on. The reason for the 124gr choice is; I can practice with the low price 115gr FMJ made by Remington UMC and Winchester white box. The 124gr point of impact out to 15 yards is almost identical to the 115gr FMJ.

Your Captain, Chief, or sheriff may be old school and remember some of the 9mm pistols from 25 years ago that were cheap made or very heavy. He may also remember the crappy 9mm ammo from 25 years ago too. This is why so many officers are required to carry lower capacity 40 S&W or 45 ACP pistols, even though you may run out of ammo in a gunfight. The FBI has tested todays 9mm ammo and it has proven to be just as terminal as 40 S&W or 45 ACP. Cops carry 9mm pistols In Europe, Russia, Japan, China, Korea, India, and the middle east. Over 90% of the world's police use 9mm!
Premium 9mm ammunition cost as much as 45% less, thus giving police officers more range time without breaking the budget."

CCI Speer Ammo (Gov. Test) Bare Gelatin Expansion
9mm Gold Dot JHP 115gr 12.8" 0.67"
9mm Gold Dot JHP 124gr +P 13.40" 0.68"
9mm Gold Dot JHP 147gr 14.80" 0.57"
40 S&W Gold Dot JHP 165gr 13.05" 0.65"
45 ACP Gold Dot JHP 185gr 11.95" 0.68"

Ballistics 9mm Stopping Power vs .40 S&W and .45 ACP ammo bullet expansion penetration
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Hmmm. A couple thousandths difference and more speed out of a 9 mm. I,ll keep my .357 and the .38 but would use a 9mm. to replace the .38 with an auto loader though light still. Then too why not step it up to a .40 at least.
Yes for concealed and ease of ammo access and semi auto and a familiar current arm Crispin is listing a fine choice for light wet work. If it were not for profile I would not go with the 9mm in favor of more mass through the pipe. I'm no student of 9mm bullets. There are .38,s that would hurt to walk into. Clothing,bone, gelatin tells part of a story. Gave up on the .44 mag. Packs a heck of a wallop though! Be interesting if much less than a cylinder full with decent shot placement did not stop someone permanently.
 

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Heres an article on what I'm talking about.

Most Versatile Handgun: The .38 Special, .38 Special +P and .357 Magnum Revolver

By Chuck Hawks

The .38 Special, .38 Special +P and .357 Magnum represent three distinct power levels using the same bullets and all three cartridges can be fired from any .357 Magnum revolver. The cases are dimensionally identical, except that the Magnum case is 0.135" longer than the Special case. This prevents .357 Magnum cartridges from entering a .38 Special chamber, but not the reverse.

The point of this article is to illustrate the three basic ammunition power levels available to anyone who owns a .357 Magnum revolver. You gain in performance as you move up the power (and recoil!) scale. You gain in shooting fun as you move back down. Choosing the right power level for the job increases your effectiveness and your shooting pleasure.

These are very accurate cartridges, capable of shooting clover leaf groups at 25 yards from a top quality revolver, so make sure your .357 is a top quality revolver. Do not settle for merely adequate. Good choices would include a Colt Python in a double action revolver or Ruger Blackhawk in a single action revolver.

While we are at it, permit me to recommend a 6" (or longer) barrel for any .357 Magnum revolver, particular if you are seeking to maximize versatility. While a 2"-3" barrel is fine for shooting .38 Special loads at short range and convenient for concealed carry, it is an abomination for a cartridge that must burn the volume of powder in a .357 Magnum case.

The practical minimum barrel length for any .357 revolver is 4". A 4" magnum is compact and often chosen by uniformed police officers who must wear their gun and holster rig all day. Loaded with deep penetrating, heavy bullets it is handy to carry for protection in the field from potentially dangerous predators, such as cougar and black bear. (Works on dangerous two-legged predators, too!) I carry my 4" Python for that purpose when I am not carrying a centerfire rifle. A 4" barrel is also a good choice for a dedicated home defense revolver, as it points well and is harder for an opponent to grab than a longer barrel. The 4" barrel is easily carried in a service type belt holster and you should get something akin to the advertised muzzle velocity (MV), as factory ammunition is tested in a 4" vented barrel.

General purpose .357 Magnum revolvers should have 6" or 6.5" barrels. Of course, a 4" barrel is intrinsically as accurate as a longer barrel and a bit easier to carry, but the longer sight radius provided by a 6" barrel is definitely advantageous for precise sight alignment. The 6" barrel allows a more complete powder burn and thus higher muzzle velocity, more energy on target and a flatter trajectory. Its greater weight also reduces muzzle flip and moves the muzzle blast a bit farther from your face. A Magnum with a 6" barrel is the jack of all trades, equally useful for self-defense, hunting and target shooting. Since factory ammunition is tested in a 4" barrel, a longer barrel should equal or exceed catalog velocities. It is nice to get a little more than you paid for at today's high ammo prices!

An 8" barrel is very nice on a hunting revolver, offering more of the same advantages, but the long holster required to carry an 8" revolver can get in the way if you need to sit down, drive a car and so forth. For walking in the field, it is fine. I have a red dot sight on my 8" Python and it makes a very nice hunting rig. Such a sight seems less ungainly on a big revolver.

.38 Special

This is where our cartridge choices start. The Special was designed as a more powerful alternative to the .38 Long Colt, which had been found inadequate by the U.S. military. It was originally loaded with black powder (158 grain lead bullet at 800 fps), which explains its large case and rather low SAAMI maximum average pressure (MAP) of 17,000 psi. The transition to smokeless powder was rapid and the Special quickly built a reputation as an exceptionally accurate cartridge. It was soon dominating centerfire pistol matches and was widely adopted by police agencies. Not until the 1980's did service autoloaders seriously challenge the popularity of the .38 revolver for police use in the U.S.

For match shooting, a 148 grain lead wadcutter bullet at about 700 fps became the load of choice. Factory loaded match ammunition is offered by Remington, Winchester and Federal, among others. Reloaders typically use a very light charge of an extremely fast burning powder for target loads, such as 2.8 grains of Bullseye, behind a hollow base wadcutter bullet. These are the minimum power .38 loads that most shooters find useful. They are a mild and exceptionally accurate choice for target shooting and plinking.

Standard .38 Special service loads represent a step up in power and versatility and there are many from which to choose. Bullet weights range from about 125-200 grains, with 125-130 grain jacketed bullets (MV about 850 fps) and 158 grain lead bullets (MV about 800 fps) being the most popular choices. These loads are used for practice, plinking and hunting small game. Reloaders typically use a medium burning rate pistol powder, such as Unique, for such loads. According to the Speer Reloading Manual #14, 4.7 grains of Unique gives a 158 grain lead bullet a MV of 815 fps.

For civilian personal protection, the Winchester 110 grain Silvertip JHP bullet at 945 fps (ME 218 ft. lbs.) or Remington 110 grain SJHP bullet at 950 fps (ME 220 ft. lbs.) from a 4" barrel are popular choices. These are the successors to the famous Super Vel high velocity .38 Spec. factory loads of the early 1970's that ushered in the modern era of self defense ammunition. For concealed carry in 2" snub-nosed .38's, Federal's Premium Personal Defense load uses a 125 grain Nyclad LHP bullet at 830 fps and 190 ft. lbs. from a 2" revolver barrel. This is their famous and highly effective "Chief's Special" load.

For apartment dwellers and others concerned with over penetration in densely populated areas, Cor-Bon/Glaser offers a standard pressure Glaser Blue pre-fragmented 80 grain bullet at 1200 fps and 256 ft. lbs. Pre-fragmented loads are reputed to be very effective in the short range, frontal shootings typical of home invasion situations.

No matter what standard pressure Special load you choose, it will provide the least muzzle blast and recoil among our three cartridge options. For new handgun shooters, standard velocity .38 Special loads are a logical step up from the .22 rimfire that should be everyone's first handgun.

.38 Special +P

Before the advent of the .38 +P, there was the .38 Special High Speed (.38/44), intended for use only in large frame revolvers originally designed for .44 caliber cartridges, principally the Colt New Service and S&W "N" frame models. This left plenty of steel in the cylinder to contain the increased pressure. In 1974, the SAAMI established standards for today's .38 Special +P loads, which replaced the .38 High Speed and are suitable for use in most medium frame revolvers, including the Colt Diamondback and S&W "K" frame models of that time. .38 Special +P loads have a MAP limit of 20,000 psi. This allows a significant, but not huge, increase in performance over the standard .38 Special.

Recoil in full size revolvers, although noticeably greater than standard pressure loads, is moderate and easy for reasonably experienced handgunners to control. Effectiveness is good. Muzzle blast is louder than standard pressure .38 loads, but far less than .357 Magnum loads. For many years the standard FBI service load was the .38 Special +P cartridge using a 158 grain lead SWC-HP bullet at a MV of 890 fps. This remains a popular service load and is available from both Remington and Winchester.

For civilian concealed carry and home defense, the Remington and Winchester +P factory loads using 125 grain JHP bullets at 945 fps / 248 ft. lbs. at the muzzle (Winchester figures) are popular choices. Similar is Federal's 129 grain Hydra-Shok JHP at a MV of 950 fps and ME of 260 ft. lbs. These are good personal protection loads for revolvers strong enough to handle them. According to the survey of police shootings conducted by Marshall and Sanow and published in their seminal book Handgun Stopping Power, the various 125 grain JHP +P loads from the major manufacturers achieved "one shot stop" percentages of about 63%-69% from 4" barrels. Their lower recoil and muzzle blast make them faster for repeat shots than full power .357 Magnum loads. They are also less blinding and deafening when fired indoors at night. Reloaders can duplicate such loads by using 5.7-6.0 grains of Unique behind a 125 grain JHP bullet. (Source: Speer Reloading Manual #14.)

Cor-Bon offers two high velocity loads for .38 +P snub-nosed revolvers. These use a 110 JHP at 1050 fps / 269 ft. lbs. and a 125 grain JHP at 950 fps / 251 ft. lbs. For apartment dwellers and others concerned with over penetration in densely populated areas, Cor-Bon / Glaser offers a Glaser Blue +P load with a pre-fragmented 80 grain bullet at 1250 fps and 278 ft. lbs. from a 4" barrel.

.357 Magnum

The .357 Magnum was the first magnum handgun cartridge and for many years it was generally understood by shooters that the term "the Magnum" referred to the .357. Remington ballistics called for a 158 grain bullet at a MV of 1550 fps from an 8-3/8" barrel. Years ago I chronographed some Remington 158 grain JHP factory loads made in the 1960's in a 10" T/C Contender pistol and got an average instrumental velocity of 1580 fps. (Screens placed 10' from the muzzle and 10' apart.) Those were hot .357 loads!

Full power .357 Magnum loads are currently loaded to a MAP of 35,000 psi, which is similar to some medium range rifle cartridges. In fact, rifles for the .357 Magnum cartridge have been made by Marlin, Winchester, Henry, Ruger, Uberti, H&R, NEF and others.

.357 revolvers are a handful for most shooters, especially those not used to magnum handguns. The recoil from full power loads is sharp and the muzzle blast definitely gets your attention. Fire a full power magnum load at night and the flash looks like the gun exploded. Actually, the cartridge's bark is worse than its bite. Experienced shooters can generally learn to control the .357 in magnum size revolvers, such as the Colt Python, S&W Model 27 and Ruger Blackhawk. With practice, very fast and accurate shooting can be accomplished with full power .357 loads in such revolvers.

The .357 Magnum is the lightest recoiling of the traditional magnum revolver cartridges (.357, .41 and .44). Trajectory and penetration are essentially the same, given bullets of the same sectional density, from all three magnums. For self defense, whether in the field or in the city, there is surprisingly little difference in the effectiveness of the magnum cartridges, which makes the .357 a reasonable all-around choice for most shooters.

The .357 Magnum has adequate power for hunting CXP2 game (deer, for example) at short range (50 yards maximum), providing the shooter has the skill to get a suitable hunting bullet into the vitals with the first shot. It also has a sufficiently flat trajectory to engage a rifle toting criminal at 100 yards or more, something to keep in mind for protection in the field or during an urban insurrection. Only a magnum handgun shoots flat enough to realistically oppose even a short range rifle.

.357 field and hunting loads typically use bullets weighting 140-180 grains in front of maximum powder charges. A 158 grain jacketed bullet at a MV of 1235 fps would be typical and such factory loads are available from most ammo manufacturers. Reloaders can produce similar hunting loads using maximum charges of slow burning pistol powders, such as H110, W296 and 2400. According to the Speer Reloading Manual #14, a maximum charge of 14.8 grains of 2400 can drive one of their 158 grain jacketed bullets at a MV of 1265 fps from a 6" revolver.

For bear and cougar protection, I prefer a 180 grain bullet. Winchester, Federal and Remington load 180 grain bullets at a MV of about 1130 fps. The Cor-Bon version is loaded with a 180 grain bonded-core soft point bullet designed for deep penetration at a MV of 1200 fps and ME of 576 ft. lbs.

For personal protection, the full power .357 Magnum is the most effective of all handgun calibers. According to the police shooting results research conducted by Marshall and Sanow and published in their seminal book Handgun Stopping Power, the various 125 grain JHP Magnum loads from the major manufacturers achieved "one shot stop" percentages of about 93%-97%. It just doesn't get any get any better than this. These loads drive a 125 grain bullet at a MV around 1450 fps and ME of 583 ft. lbs. (Remington figures from a 4" vented test barrel.) Federal's 130 grain Hydra-Shok JHP at 1410 fps is in the same general category, despite the "Low Recoil" legend printed on the box. Cor-Bon's High Velocity 110 grain JHP departs the muzzle at 1500 fps and 549 ft. lbs. and their 140 grain JHP achieves 1300 fps and 525 ft. lbs. These are all violent loads with ear splitting and blinding muzzle blast, especially if fired indoors at night.

Somewhat lower in recoil are the loads from Remington, Winchester and others that drive a 110 grain JHP at about 1295 fps MV and 410 ft. lbs. ME (Winchester figures). These achieve one shot stops in the 83%-87% range. For apartment dwellers and others concerned with over penetration in densely populated areas, Cor-Bon/Glaser offers an 80 grain Glaser Blue pre-fragmented 80 bullet at 1600 fps and 455 ft. lbs. from a 4" barrel.

Summary and Conclusion

As we have seen, a .38 Special / .357 Magnum revolver can be extremely versatile. The factory loaded ammunition options range from very mild 148 grain lead wadcutter bullets at around 700 fps to bear stopping 180 grain bullets at 1200 fps and the reloader has even greater load flexibility. No other single handgun offers such a wide power range of loads or the versatility to serve as a credible target revolver, service pistol, handgun for hunting CXP2 game and revolver for protection in the field. A .357 Magnum revolver with a 6" barrel really is the most versatile handgun of them all. If I could have only one centerfire handgun (and in hard times that is exactly what I've owned), it would certainly be a .357 Magnum.
 

This one I can shoot! Mother in law said it was OK. Info please.
So what length string? 54 Pounds? It has been a while .......
DSCN5067.JPG DSCN5069.JPG DSCN5070.JPG DSCN5072.JPG DSCN5073.JPG DSCN5076.JPG DSCN5080.JPG DSCN5081.JPG DSCN5085.JPG
 

Viking.... A "rule of thumb" would be a string about -4" of length of bow. So... 62" bow ='s 58" string. Now this can vary some from bow to bow. A brace height of about 7.5" to 8" is "normal" (distance from string to grip area). But this too can vary. Please find a credible string maker and have one made. I also don't know how many strands the string should be either. I admit I am NOT a recurve or long bow expert. But I DO KNOW THIS BUDDY.... Check this "glass bow" out very carefully. Look very closely for hairline cracks or fractures. I have seen them go up in smoke. I was standing next to a man many years ago when the top limb broke about 1/2 way up and hit him hard high on the forehead laying it open. It was a glass laminated bow.

My concerns for you Viking is this.... First, old bow so check glass closely. Second, you are a tall man so you will have a long draw pull putting a lot of stress on this old glass bow. Find a seasoned pro in this area of expertise and get bow checked out and then the proper string and strains from a good string maker. You might just need a longer string then normal to match your draw length and max the bows given draw weight. The bow states 53 lbs. but at what draw length??? Do you understand what I'm saying guy? It does make a great difference.

Now if this bow checks out and you get it properly strung it will do the job on any turkey or deer.... that's for sure!!! :occasion14:
 

Yes ,originally intended brace height a factor. A string could range from 3 to 4 inches less than length of bow. Stretching in time requiring twists the proper direction to restore that height. A traditional archery shop could help a lot. A check of the tiller, not all should be the same each side. How to ease the bow back into use . How to string it properly,that old step through not really a good practice. What length and spine arrows, moleskin or something else on the shelf for a rest, or even above the shelf. Maybe no glove on the new string, ect.https://www.google.com/webhp?source...n+bow+string&tbm=shop&spd=6230241078845951797
While some folks refinish them I would not on the Bear.. A unused wool blanket could become cut into a case for it though.8-) Grooves on tips need a good check for damage but bow looks good from what shows.
 

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Viking / releventchair... (We ought to start an archery thread now). If you take bow in and get checked, get proper string made then as releventchair mentioned above inquire what kind of rest options you may have with this bow design. It will be limited because of the designed "built in" shelf. But .... MAKE UP YOUR MIND BEFORE GETTING ARROWS. The reason being it makes a huge difference on how the arrows are set up. If you just moleskin the shelf then you'll want to use "feathers" on your shafts and then CORRECTLY install the nocks. If you can and/or decide on a flip rest then you can go with plastic / feather fletching and then the correct nock position on shafts. But remember.... the bows tiller cannot be set correctly until you decide on what arrow rest setup's are available and finger(s) pull your going to use. Upon these decisions the tiller can be dialed in then.

FYI: Tiller is the amount of offset for the nock set on string (talking recurve now). This offsets the amount of pull not evenly distributed upon the string and bow limbs when the bow is drawn. Those who use 1, 2 or 3 finger pull on string have different tiller setups. The bows arrow rest effects this also. Anyway... not getting tiller set up correctly leads to the arrows not paradoxing or not recovering and flying irregularly. Tiller on compounds can be "dialed in" with the limb bolts and the nock set both.
 

We are in a bunker, archery can relate. Just makin do with a quiet weapon.:laughing7:
The 380 is 260lb. draw weight. Wringing 380 f.p.s. out of it might require some minor tweaking but this shooter in vid seems content.

 

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Thanks! The best "bow" guy closed his shop and moved after his divorce. Nearest bow shop is 2 hours away. Crossbow hunting in Oregon is illegal.:BangHead:
 

Viking... all the things mentioned today about setting up your old recurve is important. I hope you can find somebody else close to get the help. (Still have a house for sale here... just saying buddy).

Many years ago (around 25-26 yrs.) I set a World Archery Scoring Record. I researched and researched before this attempt. Guinness book of world records helped and helped. After a long time and getting EVERYTHING right I went for it. I shot 4,293 arrows in a 24 hr. period and beat the World Record by about 1,966 pts. This may sound like a lot but at 10 pts./p/bulls eyes this equates to about 200 (+/- a few missed bulls) arrows over the 24 hr. period. I went through hell during this time period. I send in all recorded data they requested and was denied!

They said the English shooter who had just set the new world record before me had pulled his own arrows. This was a mathematical impossibility! I pointed this out and they said I was wrong that he had pulled his own arrows each time. I barely beat him standing and sitting throughout the 24 hr. period while others scored and pulled my arrows. During this period I shot world class scores throughout the 24 hr. period. I just let it go. I know I did it as did the folks who helped me. I'll try and attach an article and pic and hope you guys/gals can read it. If you can't I'm sorry... I don't know how to enlarge it to work. If someone does please do it. This is one area during my life my I wish I could repeat.
 

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Congrats on your feat!
The mental aspect would have exhausted me in a couple hours even when I used to shoot a lot..:weee:
 

releventchair said:
Congrats on your feat!
The mental aspect would have exhausted me in a couple hours even when I used to shoot a lot..:weee:
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releventchair.... YOU ARE EXACTLY RIGHT. That was the part I was most concerned about before I even started. You even saying this is an example of your experience as few will/would understand. The physical part was pass what most folks would/could endurance not counting the mental / pain end later. My bow setup weighted about 5.1 lbs. I personally loaded, raised, held, aimed for 3-4 seconds each arrow. Try getting out a 5 lb. bag of sugar and lifting it 4,293 times at arms length and holding for 3-4 seconds for 24 hrs. and hitting a bulls eyes at 20 yds.

The England based Guinness Book of Records is a scam or was at that time. I asked for EVERYTHING prudent to this record. Then I'm told... "they pulled there own arrows". Still have the original letter also. Anybody who wants to see it I'll post if you want. My "Glory Days" are over / passed. But I'd sure like to help some of ya with my archery knowledge.
 

That is cool!! Serious look ya got there......Damn! We are in the presence of greatness!!
Heck, I'll bet you have bows just..lyin' around! Hanging on the walls, etc.
 

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