Question about Peralta Stones...

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

HI AZMULE: I agree, your interpretation is more in line with the general intent, but both are technically correct.

Do Jose de La Mancha

 

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[Rock climber]

Hello to all,
I have been reading here and @ other threads for a few month now. I have a couple of photos I would like to share with u. I like so many before me have been following the stone trail maps. I located all the markers (x) on the trail (they haven't been disturb all these years) and IMHO have come across a stone heart which was located approx. 8 paces north of the double circle marker. However, due to my lack of experience with final distinations I don't know what to look for or how to further proceed with my search. I did turn the stone over hoping to find marking on the bottom of the stone heart but there were none.
Sorry not able to attach photos. It appears my photos are in the 600KB range, is there a way to shrink this amount?
Sincerely,
Rock climber

 

[the blindbowman]

If Azmula doesn't know the code associated with the Stone Maps......No one does. It would be interesting to see him apply that code to the maps, as I have laid them out on the topo. I fear that code has been my stumbling block from the start.

Actually, I would like for anyone who believes they know the code to apply their theory and conclusions to my map. Don't see any harm could be done.

Joe Ribaudo

some one dose..... lol

 

[Cubfan64]

Hello to all,
I have been reading here and @ other threads for a few month now. I have a couple of photos I would like to share with u. I like so many before me have been following the stone trail maps. I located all the markers (x) on the trail (they haven't been disturb all these years) and IMHO have come across a stone heart which was located approx. 8 paces north of the double circle marker. However, due to my lack of experience with final distinations I don't know what to look for or how to further proceed with my search. I did turn the stone over hoping to find marking on the bottom of the stone heart but there were none.
Sorry not able to attach photos. It appears my photos are in the 600KB range, is there a way to shrink this amount?
Sincerely,
Rock climber

Hi Rock Climber - interesting post. As far as the pictures are concerned, the only help I can give you is to use a program like Photoshop to reduce the size of the image until each one is less than 256KB.

I know I'm curious to see them

 

[Rock climber]

Cubfan,
Thanks for your assistance. I have 3 that I will attach one post at a time.
This is the Stone before I turned it over. Notice how the bottom section looks like it was molded into the rock formation.

 

[Rock climber]

Dollor bill to show approx. size of heart stone.

 

[Rock climber]

Double circle (circle in circle) marker approx. 8 paces south of heart stone.

 

[Rock climber]

To all the bright intelligent members who read and post here, I think you are great and keep up the good work. I would like information on how to proceed with a discovery that might exist if this is the final destination. I promise to share anything of value i.e, Cache, bullion, coins, etc… Who needs it all? I may have displayed evidence that you all seek and you can cut my search time in half with your considerable knowledge. I would be forever grateful.

1)The path is dangerous, I love the Wilderness but would like to reduce the amount of trips I need to make down this path.
2)I went 18 places, located all markers as they indicate on the maps. This encourge me to proceed on.
3)I used the stone maps but may no longer need them.
4)I found a Heart stone where the circle in a circle marker is located indicating I might be on to something.

Regards,
Rock Climber

 

[Rock climber]

BC,

Thanks’ for your honest inputs and advice. I will take notes to see if there’s a fit. Although I seldom run into heart stones, I do see a lot of Rock faces when I’m out. One recent sighting that comes to mind is a rock face that is guarding some type of opening, cave about 1 mile past the heart sighting.

Thanks again,
Rock Climber

 

[cactusjumper]

Rock Climber,

Welcome to the conversation.

Sounds like you have found some of the markers in a tight sequence. The questions that comes to mind are: Were the eighteen monuments or markers in the same pattern as on the Stone Maps? Were they in the proper perspective/distance if compared to the canyons shown on the Stone Maps, or were they, pretty much, in a smaller area?

Anyone who has spent any time in the Superstitions can show you hundreds of markings, including hearts, they have found over the years. The same can be said for any other mountains in the world.

Keep in mind that the Stone Maps could very well be a hoax. If they are not, any treasure they may have led to could have been removed long ago.

Like finding the LDM, you are one of many who have solved the Stone Map Trail. Keeping the search a hobby is a wise choice to make, IMHO.

Good luck and good hunting,

Joe Ribaudo

 

[Rock climber]

Hello Joe and thanks for your welcome.

I've been enjoying the out doors for 2 years now. I started by going out with my Uncle's who also enjoy being out in the SW desert. I just found out about the Stone maps less than a year ago, so my experience is limited. The reality is that the Stone maps could very well be a hoax or lead to something long removed. If you were in my situation what would you do or look for at this point?

Thanks in advance,
Rock Climber

 

[cactusjumper]

Rock Climber,

Nothing takes the place of repeated trips into the Superstition Mountains, but before you start any search you should learn as much as you can about what you are searching for, and what the existing "clues" are.

Reading everything you can on the subject is a good place to start. At the same time, you can hike into the mountains as often as practical, keeping in mind that the established trails are not going to lead you to what you seek. It is never a good idea to hike those mountains alone. Two is good, but three is optimum. Carry all the water you can safely handle.

If you can, attend the Dutch Hunter's Rendezvous the last weekend of this month. There will be the foremost expert on the Stone Map legend speaking there. Azmula has thrown a wide loop over the entire legend and I doubt there is anyone alive who knows more about it.

There will be others there who are somewhat, or very, familiar with all of the stories of the Superstition Mountain and the Southwest in general. Matthew Roberts, Greg Davis and (possibly) Clay Worst are some of the people who should be there. I believe the list will be much, much longer.

Anyone interested in the Superstition Mountains who misses this event will be kicking themselves for years to come. More information will be shared there than can be found in any LDM book ever printed.

Take care,

Joe Ribaudo

 

[lamar]

Dear Cubfan64;
Without a doubt, the Peralta stones are fake. Everything about them is fake and it befuddles me why anyone would believe they are anything but fake. What practically every American fails to realize is that Spanish, like English, was VERY different 150 years ago. In fact, Spanish had more differences 150 years ago than English did and it is very easy to tell the difference between the English which was used 150 years to the English which is used today.
The writing on the stone tablets was quite obviously written by a very limited Spanish speaker, using modern day Spanish. This is so patently obvious that it's laughable. Another clue to the authenticity of the stones can be found in the drawings, such as the horse. This is very clearly a modern representation of a cartoon horse.
The words "Yo pasto" is not classical Spanish in origin, rather it is modern Spanglish. The correct word is not PASTO, it's "PACER" ("I graze", as horses graze rather than eat, or "comer") which any Spanish speaker 150 years ago would have known.
Another clue is the word written as "EGLESIA". This was obviously written by a English speaker who spelled the word "IGLESIA" phonically. In Spanish the letter I is pronounced as the long E in English, so IGLESIA is pronounced as E-glay-C-ah. Only an English speaker would confuse the E and I pronunciations because in Spanish the letter E is pronounced much softer, almost as a soft A would be pronounced in English. On the other hand, in Spanish the letter I is always pronounced as a hard E in English. The way the word has been misspelled is impossible for a native Spanish speaker, yet it's often misppelled by native English speakers exactly the same way as is carved on the stone tablet.
After having looked at and studied the tablets for a while I can state that I was unable to find ANYTHING about them which may prove they are authentic.
Your friend;
LAMAR
P.S. Curva is feminine, therefore correctly it should have been "La curva" instead of "El curva" Just another one of the many mistakes found on the tablets. Perhaps the stone carver wished to inscribe CUEVA, which is also feminine, however it would make more sense to search for a cave rather than a curve. Also, SOMEO could be misspelled as SOMERO which means SUMMARY SUPERFICIAL SHALLOW or CONCISE.

 

[lamar]

Dear group;
Another hint verifying the falsness of the tablets lies in the words "ESTA BEREDA ES PELIGROZA" The correct sentence should have been written as "ESTA VEREDA ES PELIGROSO". Any, and I mean ANY true Spanish speaker 150 years ago would have known that VEREDA is spelled with a V instead of a B and the word PELIGROSO is masculine in form and ends in O and not A. Also, there is no mistaking the Z for the S either. Again, the same mistake is inscribed in the words "YO BOY". Correctly it's written as "YO VOY". Again this not a common Spanish misspelling, however it's a very common misspelling for English speakers. Also, it's much more common for a native Spanish speaker to use the word LA instead of ESTA in this manner "La vereda es peligroso". Not only does it save time and labor when carving letters into stone, it also sounds more natural in construction and therefore is used much more frequently. Only someone who learned Spanish in school outside of Latin America or Spain would use the word ESTA instead of LA in this instance.
In the phrase "YO BOY 18 LUGARES" the mistakes are not quite as obvious, yet they are still there. Aside from the misspelled VOY, it is much more common for a native Spanish speaker, especially in Mexico, to state "Mi voy' rather than "Yo voy". To a person who learns Spanish as a first language, the word YO (meaning ME or I) is considered as rude and egotisical, therefore it is not used and the word MI (also meaning ME, MY or I) is used in it's place. Again, only in schools where Spanish is taught as a second language is the word YO considered to be correct. Also, in the phrase "YO BOY 18 LUGARES" the word A (TO, in English) has been omitted. The phrase should read as "YO VOY A 18 LUGARES" ( I GO TO 18 PLACES, SPOTS, SITES or TOWNS)
All of the misspellings, misused genders and poor sentence construction points to a modern English speaker trying to write like a Mexican.
Your friend;
LAMAR

 

[El Gato]

"All of the misspellings, misused genders and poor sentence construction points to a modern English speaker trying to write like a Mexican.
Your friend;
LAMAR"


Hello Lamar,

Everything in your messages could be true,

OR,

The actual stone cutter may not have understood Spanish and was just cutting in the words as they were spoken to him. Even today people are hired to do a job on a need-to-know basis. Could the individual(s) that commissioned the work on the stones intentionally hired someone that would not understand the meaning of what he was writing?

If there had been no errors in the writing there would be 10 - 100 times as many people working on trying to figure out the meaning of the other information on the maps.

As they are, the person that had them made could have realized that the vast majority of people would quickly dismiss them based on the obvious spelling and grammar errors, just as you have.


On the other hand, someone with the intention of creating a hoax would probably not have made so many obvious errors.

18th or 19th century counter intelligence?

If the stones are authentic, there is a great deal of wealth at stake and I would expect a equally great deal of thought in their creation. Anything that would create doubt about their authenticity would be to the benefit of the creator.

Just thinking out loud,

El Gato

 

[the blindbowman]

they look like words to me ...

 

[Cubfan64]

they look like words to me ...

BB - You get irritated when people question you, and yet you CONTINUOUSLY post/revise/delete/post again etc...

I just don't understand the logic or reasoning behind doing that. Either you have something to add or you don't - what's the point of copy/pasting a gigantic explanation about the the history of the Portuguese language, adding your reasons for believing what you believe about the stones, and then seconds later deleting it all to leave a non-informative post in it's place?

Play games as you will, but you have nobody to blame but yourself for people questioning your theories.

For me, I still keep an open mind to anything/everything. Good luck in your expedition.

 

[cactusjumper]

Lamar,

Much of what you say is true, but only applies to the Horse/Priest Stone. I have never paid any attention to that tablet......whatsoever. I believe it was carved much later, as a smokescreen to confuse the issue.
A good deal of circumstantial evidence points to the creator.

While the whole thing may be fake, the places marked on the trail maps are precise. They were not produced by a casual visitor to the range, but by someone who had years of experience in the Superstitions.

Should have read farther back in this thread.

Joe Ribaudo

 

[Oroblanco]

Well pointed out El Gato, those obvious errors should be a huge red flag to anyone studying those stone maps. I am fairly convinced they are frauds, and have a couple of suspects as to whom created them and why. Even so, it is possible they lead to treasure, but a modern treasure not an ancient one, if the creator is a particular artist.

Personally I would not waste a trip in trying to use those stone maps to find anything, as they have been used by a number of people over many years now without finding treasures - I have no reason to suppose that I would do any better than they did. However for those who remain convinced of the stones' authenticity, they are sure to have a good time and are not hurting anyone (I hope!) and will at least get a good story to tell the grandkids while seated on the proverbial knee, so I too wish them good luck and good hunting - and I really won't be offended in the least should Blindbowman or anyone else succeed in finding some great treasure. I will happily 'eat my words'.

That said, it seems that no kinds of persuasion or logic will sway a person who has become convinced of the stone maps authenticity, it has become almost an article of faith. I would sooner go spend the time and resources searching for better authenticated lost treasures/lost mines than use those stone maps, as I am convinced that your chances of actually finding treasures is immeasurably greater in searching for genuine lost treasures than in something of such questionable origins and aspect - but heck I think anyone going out to search for treasure is going to have the time of their life (I actually think that everyone ought to participate in a good treasure hunt at least once in their life) and I have no desire to rob anyone of their 'pursuit of happiness' so more power to you.

I would definitely make every effort to talk any beginner OUT of wasting any time with the stone maps, as the odds of a failed treasure hunt are very high and nothing will kill a treasure hunter's desire to hunt treasure like looking for a fraud. With an experienced treasure hunter, a person who is not discouraged by a failed search, I would sooner see them hunt for a verifiable treasure but if they don't mind chasing down legends that could turn out to be a pack of lies, I wish them good luck.

Sorry for the long-winded post, good luck and good hunting to you all, I hope you find the treasures that you seek.

Oroblanco

 

[gollum]

While I am on the opposite side of the fence as Roy about this subject (I think they are most likely authentic), would also tend to agree with him regarding a green pea treasure hunter. BUUUUUUUT.........on the other hand, if you are looking for a subject on which to hone your research skills, this is a great one. There is a LOT to research. Trust me. As Roy and Cactus Jumper can attest to, I spent about 3 or 4 months solid researching JUST the modern history of the Stone Maps (from 1949 till present). I ran into brick walls, and uncovered some VERY interesting things that have never been shown before. A lot of my research helped to throw out some of the bullsh*t parts of the Stone's Story.

Lamar,

As far as the grammar, I can go down to Baja right now, and find a good stone carver. Tell him what to carve, and it will come out misspelled, and grammatically wretched. Many Mexicans are illiterate. I can only imagine that if illiteracy is so widespread in Mexico in 2007, then it was far worse in 1847. Just because someone is good with their hands, does not give them a command of any language.

I would think that if someone wanted to forge the Stone Maps, they would have gone to the trouble to find the correct words to carve.

Lastly, I try to simplify things to their basics:

Why would someone forge the Stone Maps? The only reason would be to use them to make money. Since their "finding" in 1949, they have never been used for that purpose. Every owner has kept them, and used them to try and find where they led. That in and of itself is my biggest reason for believing them to be authentic.

best-Mike