Oroblanco said:
Blindbowman wrote
i have been working with the code on the Tayopa letter..it is not the same code as the stones ...very close ..
i now have a list of the mines at this location..
the EL Paramo placer (waltz's placer )
the Jesus Maria y jose mine (Ma Mine )
the TAYOPA mine (PA Mine)
the Remedios (Rio or Hoya)
And more, but this is mainly what I am going to refer to.
You say there is a code in the Tayopa inventory document? That Waltz had a placer mine, which is one and the same with the Paramo placer? There are three mines? I thought there were eight, or nine, or 18? The list of names posted by Don Jose are the names of the individual mines of Tayopa; the story of Tayopa has it that it was originally discovered in 1602 or 1603; so are you taking the position that there were Spanish and Jesuits in the Superstition mountains in
1603? There are many problems with this theory as we have tried to cover before. How could the bells of Tayopa be heard in a village that was only a few miles away, when we know that village location and it is far to the south in Sonora? Then there is the Mesa of the Bell Maker. What mesa are you saying is that mesa? Where was the Real, and the mission church? It is going to be a tough sell to convince some of us that Tayopa is in the Superstitions, much less that it has anything to do with Jacob Waltz.
I know, you have tried to explain this before but I just can't see the connections to make this a believable case.
Just a side note here but the Paramo placer is supposed to be in an adjoining valley to Tayopa. How does that fit with your location? Thank you in advance.
Oroblanco
Roy ask
"You say there is a code in the Tayopa inventory document?"
yes, i have no doubt what so ever the tayopa inventory letter is in fact coded ...
Roy said
" That Waltz had a placer mine, which is one and the same with the Paramo placer?"
Waltz did in fact locate the EL paramo placer ...not the Paramo place . i beleive that placer is at the other Tayopa sites be those at RT sites i do not know at this point . i have never been to his sites ...
waltz will read . " where it drops out into the bottom of the wash " that means it is very likely a placer ...and the fact the vein was and is a deposite cluster tells me the reason for the 22 k assay of the EL Paramo Placer ..
Roy Said
"There are three mines ?"
well you would have to reword that question ..
there are 3 main mines . the Jesus Maria y Jose mine , the TAYOPA and the Redemios , and the EL Paramo Placer , 3 richest mines , they dug in 18 locations , from what i under stand so far ..
not to be confused with the Paramo or the Tayopa ,,
i beleive these are the 3 richest mines as the 5th bell stated ... thats why it dose not show up in the inventory list ...even when we see a mine like the Cristo, knowing Pedro de Peralta was part of the time line of its discovery
". New Mexico's third Spanish governor, Don Pedro de Peralta, however, founded a new city at the foot of the Sangre de Cristo Mountains in 1608, which he called La Villa Real de la Santa Fé de San Francisco de Asís, the Royal Town of the Holy Faith of Saint Francis of Assisi. In 1610, he made it the capital of the province, which it has almost constantly remained,"
if the bells were cast in 1603 and the letter's inventory came from that date of 1603 then the date of 1608 here in the Pedro de Peralta time lines dose in fact fit the stones and the letters may have been writtern in 1643-1645 and were not sealed till 1646.. but that dose not mean the inventory was not done in 1603 ..when the bells were cast , note the inventory list the Cristo, a place that will not be fully named for another 5 years ...in 1608 the mts may have been known but was the there a Cristo mine at that time .. most likely yes ...so my time line is correct ..
and Pedro DE Peralta was in this area and did play a roll in the founding of those mts ...and most likely the mining that was going on at the time in that area ...
Roy said
"the story of Tayopa has it that it was originally discovered in 1602 or 1603; so are you taking the position that there were Spanish and Jesuits in the Superstition mountains in
1603? "
there were Peralta in the mts in 1603 even before 1603 maybe as early as 1585....
but the jesuits try to lay claim to the mines by renameing them . but as i pointed out the plot goes south and the mines are lost some time after 1646 ...
we know there is something wrong here but we do not know how those peices fit together yet . we know the jesuit do not know about the 5th bell ...so someone is lieing or someone knows the truth and dose not want anyone else to know what that truth is ...i dont think the jesuits forgot about makeing a 5 th bell .. they did not know about it because they did not know the histroy of the bells and who did cast them ..
my point is the jesuits say a lot in this letter . and about half of it is not true IMHO
why code it if they were not hiddeing something ..? un less i see a bell casted with a date on it . i have to go with what i know so far . these mines belong to Pedro De Peralta in 1603-1609. beyond that we can only hope more evidence is collected and defines the truth as the evidence come forth ...to prove or disprove these theories . but we do have evidence that says this theory is true ..
i will explain at the Rendezous in detail ...
if you can tell me wish of the Tayopa sites is closest then i could tell you wis one was hurd ...lol see my point what is true and what is toal BS we dont know but i dont think i would hunt for barking dogs to prove a navigational location ...lol anyone can say they hurd a barking goat . but where is the collective evidence to prove it ... i dont see it in those cases ..
i think if the jesuits are in these mts in those years no one knew about and they were not going to tell anyone .. the two Tayopa sites were a way to confuse and misled people away from the truth ...and the jesuits were very good at it ..
Roy said
"It is going to be a tough sell to convince some of us that Tayopa is in the Superstitions,"
i disgree completely . the statue was there in 1959..i know where the tunnle is ,, i dont think it will be hard to prove it at all .. one statue is worth a lot more then a picture is ...lol
Roy said
"convince some of us that Tayopa is in the Superstitions, much less that it has anything to do with Jacob Waltz. "
waltz Will says it all . you only need remember how much data has past by and how much is truth and how much is not known or is guess work ..
i beleive these are the lost Peralta mines . even if the jesuits tried to steal them by renameing them .. they are still the lost Peralta mine , and waltz will says he killed them and took this mine from them .. whats that tell you .. you can call it the LDM .. i dont . its the Ma mine for no better name for it at this point it can be called jose mine or jesus maria mine you can call it the chicken soap mine if you like . it wont change the facts ..
if you do not have the sorce you will not be able to tell the two Tayopa's apart , thats why they did it that way . the paramo is in mexico ...
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