Seeker, You do realize that it is "notes" as a verb?
What are you talking about?
We are so far off track here it is laughable. Your valuations are also based on your ability to only see the worst examples...sure some bronze cannon sell for $7K but GME sold a plain, 4 foot, non-ornate bronze cannon just a few years ago for over $40K, and it had zero story at all. Now let's assume that GME can prove this was Menendez's ship coming home from Capturing Fort Caroline, then what are these much larger, very ornate cannon, associated with the massacre that named Matanzas Inlet worth?
Assuming you can, then it is sovereign Spanish. It seems to be played with a naive idea of how admiralty claims are made and litigated. So far, it looks to me like it has been played both ways. In Court, claimed unidentified, while in the press (for valuation) a much different story. A French column, with French cannon, yet the story is that the Spanish captured the fort and artifacts, and were transporting them. All the while, claiming lack of identity of a shipwreck to the Court. Please review the Odyssey playbook on the Mercedes to see how that turned out, and their Contempt of Court ruling with a $1 million dollar penalty for extended litigation due to claiming lack of identity.
As for the valuation, look at the press.
I suppose you are aware that Fort Caroline location has never actually been found?
I am not sure about you, but I cant find anyone who has Fort Caroline as a destination to visit.
Large, ornate cannon, well, there are certainly no examples of those around, really. As a note, looking at the rare cannon that Odyssey Marine recovered from the HMS Victory, a famous vessel, and rare cannon, and Odyssey was paid $250,000 for 2 cannon. Thats $125,000 per cannon. (basically cost to recover) So a rare cannon from a (sortof) British Warship, the Victory, is worth $125,000, but somehow, this cannon from a French Huguenot fort of unknown location is worth $1 million? Reality check, who is going to pay $1 million for each of those cannon?
The monument is the only one in existence, making it extremely rare. There are parks in Florida and France which have erected replicas of the monument, so to say there isn't much interest is a laughable statement....if they aren't interested, why did they hire Gould and file a lawsuit?
One of a kind, while perhaps rare, may not be valuable, nor would anyone pay for it. How much interest has there been on this column? Your mention the Park, but that monument was provided by whom? Has the interest been from the Ribault Society? Has the general public been interested in seeing the column? You mention 2 entities that have replicas, the NPS and a museum in France (which is a tribute to Ribault, not the column) Do you see either entity paying anything for the an original piece? You must be aware that what has been found so far is just a piece of the column? A stone Fleurs de lis, one cannot imagine how many of those there are laying about.
As noted before, the oldest known stone of the 10 commandments, which certainly has some historical value to the world (and bragging rights for the owner) sold for $250,000. Somehow, a
piece of a stone column that does not have a set location (scholars argue if the French colony was in Georgia or Florida), comes from an unknown vessel, and may have never been installed as a monument, is somehow worth $50 to $60 MILLION ?!?!?!
As stated before, it is not about the value, it is about the precedent. As you noted in your statement, it could be a Menendez vessel, then it is Spanish, perhaps now you see the connection to Goold representation?
You seem to look at things in the worst possible light, e.g. "how did they spend 3 million when all they did was dust off a monument"....if you know anything about this industry you know there were thousands of hours of survey that took place out there before finding this shipwreck, and thousands of hours of digging, diving, documenting and publishing our data along the way.
GME had a preliminary permit, with no admiralty claim, and they spent $3 million? Why? Hopefully, at this point, even you can ascertain that I do have a very good working knowledge of research, recovery, and the associated costs. Was part of the 'research' costs associated was the original post, begging for information on the identity and valuation of the artifacts?
In looking at the equipment that GME has, $3 million is far more than all of it is worth. Racking up thousands of hours of 'research', yet still claiming the wreck is unidentified? (well, at least to the Court) The cartoon illustrations, while amazing to some, are simply cartoons in the research world (and not even to a proper scale) please do not try to impress anyone in the Court or otherwise with those, it will not go well.
My statement on the $3 million was more of an observation. Spending $3 Million, at this point in the recovery, with only a preliminary site investigation, no identity, and asking the internet for valuation? This is a beach site, accessible by divers, not a deep ocean ex.
Reality check:
$3 million spent on a site with no provenance? $3 million spent on a site previous to any recovery or conservation? $3 million spent on a site while claiming lack of identity? It just does not compute. Looking at what has been shown so far as a potential recovery, I see the entire lot at less that 10% of the claimed costs to date. Looking at this as a business, spending at least $3 million, with no ability to recover anything, while the potential value is less than $300,000...well, that is not a difficult decision to make. Keep pouring bad money after bad, that has yet to be successful.
No permit to recover. Whatever the reason, there is no permit to recover.
Florida pays 80% on value of recovered artifacts. Value of recovered artifacts=$0.
Go ahead, fight the State in the Courts on permission to recover. You think $3 million is a lot of money. In the end, I can almost guarantee you will lose. (ie remember my posts on the Brother Jonathan and California)
Smart money would have made a deal with Florida, France, or Spain, not fight them in Court. Personally, I would have chosen to deal with the French out of Court.
When 1715 Fleet-Queens Jewels splashed the Spanish gold on Good Morning America, it raised Spains ire on the issues. Not only did they assert their rights, they are asserting that Florida is not properly protecting the 1715 fleet, with no archaeological supervision, and nothing to show as far as research and documentation on the recoveries as was required in the ruling. Looking back, while entities claim archaeological recovery and documentation, just how much of that research is public, or more important how much has been properly published. I am not aware of a single published paper on the Atocha.
Perhaps now you may realize why things are changing with Florida and this business. If you do not, then you are a problem. On the side of this, it is easy to work within the rules, recover sites, and make money. I see there are mentions of working with France and/or Spain to recover shipwrecks. There are many groups that do this, and do well.
Be one of those types, or become a casualty of the evolution of this business.
Again, precedents are about to be set. As someone who is vested in recoveries, and the ability to continue as such, this doesnt look like it is going very well, and therefore, I will endeavor to protect my interests, not GME's. Take that as you will.
