Pauline Innis

[Captain Jack Sparrow]

That could be very possible.
Peter Viemeister, in his book, had an original Ward copy of the Beale Papers.
The Hart's copy did contain discrepancies from the original Ward published pamphlet.
Pauline Innis relied heavily on the Hart search and the HART PAPERS, and not on the original Ward version.
As I have previously noted, there is NO mention of an iron box in the HART PAPERS.
As with all the aspects of the Beale story, whether the Oteys had possession of "THE" iron box, and Innis saw it after being directed by George Hart, can neither be confirmed nor denied, but her interest in arcane esoteric matters has been documented, which may well explain her interest in the Hart version of the Beale story.
Pauline Innis did give astronumerlogical readings during her Washington DC socialite parties as a parlor entertainment.

not seeing the original ward copy in this book. what page would that be on? or is this just fake news?

 

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[Rebel - KGC]

"Focus" was on Pauline Innis; IF she saw a Box with papers, could have been with her mind's eye (PSYCHIC), OR! A FAKE was provided for her review (by Otey...?) & write about... after all, both she AND her husband were in the "SPY BUSINESS"...
I DO NOT think the IRON Box existed, nor found in PA.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

not seeing the original ward copy in this book. what page would that be on? or is this just fake news?

PV had a copy of the ORIGINAL "JOB PRINT" in his book, THE BEALE TREASURE: NEW History of a MYSTERY; Chapter 3, pg. 22-44; it was 23 pages long, & had a green cover.

 

[ECS]

Pauline Innis

Theories, sometimes we lose sight of what our theories actually conclude. In her book Pauline Innis makes claim that during her research and investigations into the Beale story that she had witnessed to the iron box and its contents, a pretty deciding claim, to say the least. Now obviously if she did actually see the iron box and its contents then this lends an incredible amount of credibility to the story, but did she actually see these items, or was she simply lying in order to add more credibility to the story and her book?

I, for one, believe that Innis fabricated her witnessing of the iron box and its contents but I only base this conclusion upon the fact that she failed to document the event in the form of pictures, which she claims wasn't permitted, yet she does manage one image of some random numbers on a piece of torn paper that is contrary to her claim that pictures weren't allowed. Maybe she was telling the truth, maybe she wasn't? Lacking all manner of evidence except her word who can really say for sure?...

The said can be said about Claudine Fulton Ellis and her claim of the missing Beale letter found in a family Bible and the story of Ebenezer Nelms, proprietor of the Blackhorse Tavern in Roanoke murdering George Rader Brugh alleged proprietor of St Louis Planters Hotel who was alleged to be the letters delivery person, which Ellis claimed to have visited, observing Brugh's portrait hanging in the lobby.
During the Beale period of stay, Brugh was not the proprietor, in the 1830's another Planters Hotel was built, and then another in 1891.By 1922 the Hotel was converted into an office building, named was changed to the Cotton Building in 1930, and was torn down in 1976.
What Planters Hotel did she visit?
Like Pauline Innis, who was friends with Jeanne Dixon, Ellis also had psychic abilities. The source most of her Beale information came from this ability, and both Innis and Eliis's books do seem to have information related to the HART PAPERS and not to Ward's 1885 Beale Papers.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Well, Ellis was a YOUNG GIRL when "artifacts" were found... dunno, if I would "know", either. If I didn't already know the story, as a young boy, don't think I would have cared...

 

[ECS]

Since and including Ward's 1885 Beale Papers was published and the followup embellished works, the papers and artifacts that form the basis of all these works, are claimed to have been seen by the various authors, but somehow all are never seen by another and all have become lost, so one must, as Bigscoop mentioned, accept the word of the author.

 

[masterpoe]

Pauline Innis

Theories, sometimes we lose sight of what our theories actually conclude. In her book Pauline Innis makes claim that during her research and investigations into the Beale story that she had witnessed to the iron box and its contents, a pretty deciding claim, to say the least. Now obviously if she did actually see the iron box and its contents then this lends an incredible amount of credibility to the story, but did she actually see these items, or was she simply lying in order to add more credibility to the story and her book?

I, for one, believe that Innis fabricated her witnessing of the iron box and its contents but I only base this conclusion upon the fact that she failed to document the event in the form of pictures, which she claims wasn't permitted, yet she does manage one image of some random numbers on a piece of torn paper that is contrary to her claim that pictures weren't allowed. Maybe she was telling the truth, maybe she wasn't? Lacking all manner of evidence except her word who can really say for sure? However, when forming theories this circumstance is something that must be taken into account, and here's why.

“The Beale Pamphlet was a complete work of fiction.” As some have just recently, and quite painfully learned, the laying of this conclusion is to also lay claim that Innis was a fraud in her claims that she saw the iron box and its contents. Of course this is also a direct attack on the credibility and character of Pauline Innis who, from what I can tell, was highly respected in her community. So what do you think, did Pualine Innis actually see the iron box and its contents or was she simply making fraudulent claim in support of the story and the sale of her image and book? Or, is it possible that Pauline Innis was duded into only thinking that she was seeing the real iron box and contents, the possibility of the fraud then being passed onto those who showed her the fraudulent box and contents? Were they credible people? What you say about the situation?

Interesting option!

 

[ECS]

... Pauline Innis was a local researcher of the Beale mystery, wrote a couple of books on the subject, and she claimed to have actually seen the iron box and contents. There is a "rumor" that the box still survives in some estate somewhere but I doubt it.

Pauline Bertha Lee-Jones Innis and her 2nd husband, US Navy Rear Adm Walter D Innis bot involved with the Beale story by way of George Hart and his HART PAPERS.
Pauline Innis who gave " astronumerology readings" to her political DC socialite friends at parties and was a friend of Jeanne Dixon was intrigued with the "séance" medium revelation story in the Hart Papers.
It was George Hart who introduced Innis to an Otey family member who was "alleged" to have shown her an iron box that contained a torn slip of numbers covered paper.
It is interesting to note, while an iron box was mentioned in the original 1885 Beale Papers, there was NO mention of any iron box in the Hart Papers.

The "rumor" of the iron box still existing at an estate is a baselees claim that her brother handled the affairs her estate and took the iron box back to England.
The TRUTH of the matter is that Pauline Innis had no brother, her only living family member was her cousin, The Right Rev Lawrence E Luscombe, PRIMUS (Bishop) CHURCH OF SCOTLAND, who presided at her funeral , handled the affairs, the listing and dispersing of her estate, BUT there was NO MENTION of the iron box as part of her personal belongings.
This iron box story is nothing but one of the many tales of Beale lore that keeps being passed on as fact.

 

[franklin]

Pauline Bertha Lee-Jones Innis and her 2nd husband, US Navy Rear Adm Walter D Innis bot involved with the Beale story by way of George Hart and his HART PAPERS.
Pauline Innis who gave " astronumerology readings" to her political DC socialite friends at parties and was a friend of Jeanne Dixon was intrigued with the "séance" medium revelation story in the Hart Papers.
It was George Hart who introduced Innis to an Otey family member who was "alleged" to have shown her an iron box that contained a torn slip of numbers covered paper.
It is interesting to note, while an iron box was mentioned in the original 1885 Beale Papers, there was NO mention of any iron box in the Hart Papers.

The "rumor" of the iron box still existing at an estate is a baselees claim that her brother handled the affairs her estate and took the iron box back to England.
The TRUTH of the matter is that Pauline Innis had no brother, her only living family member was her cousin, The Right Rev Lawrence E Luscombe, PRIMUS (Bishop) CHURCH OF SCOTLAND, who presided at her funeral , handled the affairs, the listing and dispersing of her estate, BUT there was NO MENTION of the iron box as part of her personal belongings.
This iron box story is nothing but one of the many tales of Beale lore that keeps being passed on as fact.

All right ECS, where is the list for Pauline Innis personal belongings? You mentioned it do you have it?

 

[ECS]

No, do you?

 

[franklin]

No, do you?

Why then did you say in the previous post, "BUT there was NO MENTION of the iron box as part of her personal belongings." Post #68 More double talk

 

[ECS]

Why have you stated many times that her "BROTHER" took the iron box back to England"

 

[franklin]

More DOUBLE TALK NEVER ANSWERS A QUESTION WHEN WRONG ALWAYS ASK ANOTHER QUESTION

 

[ECS]

If you say so, Franklin.
Now, will you answer about the Pauline Innis brother taking the iron box to England story you posted many times as fact?

 

[franklin]

If you say so, Franklin.
Now, will you answer about the Pauline Innis brother taking the iron box to England story you posted many times as fact?

Please post where I said that? I know I made a mistake about him being her brother but he was executor over her estate. Now you post where you saw the inventory list of her estate. All talk. You like reposting over and over the same false post but you never answer your false statements that you make as provenance when you have not got a leg to stand on and you know it.

And no where did I ever post that he carried the iron box back to England. He does not live in England either Sherlock.

 

[ECS]

1.Please post where I said that? I know I made a mistake about him being her brother but he was executor over her estate...

2.And no where did I ever post that he carried the iron box back to England. He does not live in England either Sherlock.

1.You can start with the Claudine Fulton Ellis thread, there are several others.
In Innis's WASHINGTON POST obituary, August 26, 2007, it is clearly stated that her COUSIN, Rev Lawrence E Luscombe attended her funeral.

2. Yes you did on several threads, but maybe you should have stated the UNITED KINGDOM.
Luscombe retired in 1988 to the Kirkton of Tealing Village, Angus, Scotland, United Kingdom.

With that very basic and easily verified mistake of "brother" posted over and over, makes one wonder what other "not quite right" information has been posted as fact- some genealogy mistakes have also been noted.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

James Beverly Risqué was wounded in a duel by Thomas Beale.
Never claimed Clay , Coles, Witcher, Jackson, and Marshall were part of the Risqué bloodline, but names known to the buying demographic of 1885 Lynchburg.
Max Guggenheimer, who you always neglect to mention, served with Ward's Hutter cousins in the Confederacy, and was a business owner, contemporary with the 1885 publication and the pamphlet was sold at his store.
What evidence suggests that James Beverly Ward lacked the skills to write the Beale Papers?
Ward's cousin, John William Sherman, who printed the job pamphlet and was a jr editor of the newspaper that advertised the work, also wrote plays for the local thespian group. So maybe Ward had help in the composition.
Call it local lore or romance, but the BEALE PAPERS are a LOCAL adventure treasure story with ciphers added as a LOCAL parlor entertainment to a LOCAL buying public.
With all your fantastical history tour of Adams-Onis, Lafitte, Girard, Patterson, Bonaparte, the world famous "Mexico" Sherman, opium trade, pirates, gun runners, slavery, the 2nd Bank and conspiracy of international bankers, you can't prove that the Beale Papers is nothing more than a dime novel that sold for 50 cents.
...and you call my opinion lore and romance.

HEH!

 

[ECS]

Thank you, Rebel-KGC for reposting that- it does show that I take notice and question all misinformation posted as fact by whomever.

 

[franklin]

1.You can start with the Claudine Fulton Ellis thread, there are several others.
In Innis's WASHINGTON POST obituary, August 26, 2007, it is clearly stated that her COUSIN, Rev Lawrence E Luscombe attended her funeral.

2. Yes you did on several threads, but maybe you should have stated the UNITED KINGDOM.
Luscombe retired in 1988 to the Kirkton of Tealing Village, Angus, Scotland, United Kingdom.

With that very basic and easily verified mistake of "brother" posted over and over, makes one wonder what other "not quite right" information has been posted as fact- some genealogy mistakes have also been noted.

ECS, You are full of yourself. I am not going to dig up research just to satisfy you. No one is not 100 percent perfect. I show you your mistakes but never comment you just go back and dig up another mistake by me or someone else. You are a character and you should not talk to anyone but yourself the only perfect man on this forum.

 

[ECS]

Franklin, the point made is that you are very quick to tell others they are mistaken, but get highly defensive and lash out with insulting verbosity when yours are brought forth.