old button?

[Moe (fl)]

Is this a button?

It is the size of a nickel and made of copper/brass.

 

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[CRUSADER]

British and is there really much point in me posting one? Aren't you familiar with domed buttons? Every time Crusader posts you can probably see one.

While I find the button, you find a large very domed gilted Colonial tack .... I'll race ya.

Im not interested in the race. Ill just wait. 8) Keep in mind that Moes find does not necessarily have to be colonial and I believe some steamer trunk tacks were guilted. I live in South Florida and we have no British colonial finds. Its either very old Spanish shipwreck or 20th century. No CW either.

We all know you Iron Patch are very knowlegable on colonial buttons. I could find a pic and post it, but it would be better if you posted it because you are the one trying to prove your case. Im just here now on this thread to learn. And so far Ive learned its not a Spanish button.

Agreed, I have found guilt tacks & even tinned tacks. I don't keep them, so don't ask, but if I get another I might.

Anyway, IP & TK its time to calm down. I'm neutral & have seen positive & negitives on both side. (If you did ask me you would have found out that neither has said anything ) Lets call it a day, we are all proven hunters in our own right & country, no need to headbutt any more

I thought I had made myself clear, I was the first to suggest tack

Things must have gone to hell... now you're quoting yourself!

Look more carefully, because I'm not

Ah yes... that's how Silver Searcher should always post... just pics and smileys!

Yep your right with my finds that's all I nead to do

thats what I thought

 

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[Bigcypresshunter]

The two in question are not a match in their current state. I'll say it again because it doesn't seem to be getting through, the iron remains on Moe's makes a HUGE difference. One has a copper/brass - shaft/shank and the other an iron one. The only way they can be the same is if the iron on Moe's has nothing to do with the way the item was made. It's like saying a pewter button with a pewter shank is the same as one with an iron shank, it's not. We have no idea why the iron is on Moe's so to consider them the same just because they are domed to the same degree is not right. Also, the picture of the early tack keeps getting posted and yes, that is how they look, I've had many.

I understand what you are saying and no offense, Iron Patch, but did you even bother to read my post? I posted the pic again, and I even cropped the pertinant part. I have come to the conclusion that Moes tack/button has an iron shank. Just my opinion.

My pic says: "Square shanks, early style. Round steel shanks later. Detectable with magnet."
Yes modern (20th century) brass tacks have iron shafts. I tested mine with a magnet.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

You could be right that Timekillers find has a brass center. Maybe we can ask Timekiller to test it with a magnet. I dont have any Colonial buttons but I would love to see a side view pic of the two items to compare.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Right. and if you read way back in the posts I said a more modern tack could be an option for Moe's find. But then you look at the other one in question, and just because they kinda look the same, you consider them the same. That is what I don't agree with. If you consider Moe's a later tack that actually goes against the idea of the other being a tack because of the differences. (Early tacks that I seen were not domed like that, did not have iron shafts, and were not gilted... but lots of buttons were)

OK great understood. 8) The only thing left to do is post the Colonial button like Timekiller said to compare the dome. You know that "a picture tells a thousand words," and we have enough words on this thread.



BTW Yes I thought they looked very much the same. I thought that Timekillers find could possibly be a more "modern" steamer trunk tack. But I dont really know. I dont know when they started using steel shanks. I cant quite see the center for one thing.

 

[timekiller]

1)First off I've never said if mine is copper/brass or not.(It is ) Good Work Patch on that. You'll have to put it on my bill or I O you!
2)I've seen the dome shaped buttons you speak of now although none of a plain style but they are one piece with the shank in the middle thats all and the only ones I was able to find had things on them so I'm sure they made plain ones too.(I Guess) All I can do at this time.
3) In my book they can be either Tack OR Button Don't Care Know more.
4) Got to thinking about somethings I find and remembered that alot of these finds I find the way I do it by water most of the time have what is call salt patina on them.Most of my metal finds I've took it off of in the cleaning but not so sure can't remember about this one as I might had just throughed it in the pile. So don't know for sure myself if it is that on the button/tack or guilt.I'll show some in a pic of what it looks like beside the bottles I've found that has it on them.Many things I find have this patina on it that is this old for sure.
(Early tacks that I seen were not domed like that, did not have iron shafts, and were not gilted... but lots of buttons were)
5) Patch you say you never seen a tack with a dome like that weather or not with guilt.Here you go!

Lot of 6 large, ornamental nails. 69 grams total, each about 1½" tall and 1" in diameter. Probably studs on chests or other wooden furniture, each of these short nails has a large, round cap, some plain but others with flowery design, the shanks mostly bent and the surfaces corroded but intact. Found in a Spanish colonial area in the southern Caribbean, ca. 1590.

I kinda Thought I had done showed sites I guess you are to busy busting my chops to look.That's good shows who you are and makes me Smarter or raises my IQ with all this research! Cause That's What This Was About!Let's get timekiller Smart (REMEMBER)?I'll have to owe you for this teaching lesson your giving me.Just add it to my Bill!

 

[timekiller]

1)First off I've never said if mine is copper/brass or not.(It is ) Good Work Patch on that. You'll have to put it on my bill or I O you!
2)I've seen the dome shaped buttons you speak of now although none of a plain style but they are one piece with the shank in the middle thats all and the only ones I was able to find had things on them so I'm sure they made plain ones too.(I Guess) All I can do at this time.
3) In my book they can be either Tack OR Button Don't Care Know more.
4) Got to thinking about somethings I find and remembered that alot of these finds I find the way I do it by water most of the time have what is call salt patina on them.Most of my metal finds I've took it off of in the cleaning but not so sure can't remember about this one as I might had just throughed it in the pile. So don't know for sure myself if it is that on the button/tack or guilt.I'll show some in a pic of what it looks like beside the bottles I've found that has it on them.Many things I find have this patina on it that is this old for sure.
Early tacks that I see(n were not domed like that, did not have iron shafts, and were not gilted... but lots of buttons were) 5) Patch you say you never seen a tack with a dome like that weather or not with guilt.Here you go!

Lot of 6 large, ornamental nails. 69 grams total, each about 1½" tall and 1" in diameter. Probably studs on chests or other wooden furniture, each of these short nails has a large, round cap, some plain but others with flowery design, the shanks mostly bent and the surfaces corroded but intact. Found in a Spanish colonial area in the southern Caribbean, ca. 1590.

I kinda Thought I had done showed sites I guess you are to busy busting my chops to look.That's good shows who you are and makes me Smarter or raises my IQ with all this research! Cause That's What This Was About!Let's get timekiller Smart (REMEMBER)?I'll have to owe you for this teaching lesson your giving me.Just add it to my Bill!

Yes they look exactly like your find which also must date to the 1590s.

Guess that would put you about the 120 - 140 range? (Very superior intelligence)

Well from you I'll take that as a compliment But again your not very clear on what you say(Early tacks that I seen were not domed like that, did not have iron shafts, and were not gilted... but lots of buttons were) Now are you saying that the spanish were not here in N.C. in 1590 and someone could not make a find like that?? Let me know will go back to school!

 

[timekiller]

Bye the way Please Hurry I might want to go MDing today! And find some more 20th century finds you know?

 

[timekiller]

Bye the way Please Hurry I might want to go MDing today! And find some more 20th century finds you know?

I'm sure there's another Merc dime waiting!

Is That spanish
Just Trying to get a C this week on my report card.
So how is this http://www.archaeology.ncdcr.gov/ncarch/articles/1stcolo.htm
I'll owe you a apple!

 

[timekiller]

Well I'm going to head out now Tell you the truth not exspecting much but it will be nice to get away from this screen for awhile and take a break from my studing!

I don't know where the Spanish were but maybe in 1590 they dropped tacks all the way from Fl to NC. Now if you can just find all the relics and 16th century coins that for some reason don't seem to be showing up at your sites.




I know what you mean I keep having to deal with those trashy16th/17th century objects like the three in my hand above,and little silver things that have some design on them looks like they were smashed with a hammer or something,also funny looking bronze objects with acorns on the handle,and of course those always pesty 20th century tokens,and buckles,but one day I'll get on something old I just know it. I just hope it's soon dang it!

 

[Moe (fl)]

I checked the inside of the button it is not magnetic! This would indicate that what is left there has lost all iron molecules (old) or it is not iron.

I am now leaning toward that this is a button. Most of the tack photos posted so far don't look like my item. My button/tack is more domed.

Thanks.
Moe

 

[timekiller]

I checked the inside of the button it is not magnetic! This would indicate that what is left there has lost all iron molecules (old) or it is not iron.

I am now leaning toward that this is a button. Most of the tack photos posted so far don't look like my item. My button/tack is more domed.

Thanks.
Moe

Sorry about all this on your thread Moe,I'll let these guy's who know more tell you what it might be.Anyway keep at it and hope you the Best on your future finds.
Take Care!
Pete.
I Think I'll Retire from here (tnet) seems how it's just a hassle to post things that aren't worth posting anyway!

 

[Moe (fl)]

Pete,

Stay in tnet. I value your opinion and expertise.

Happy Hunting!

Moe

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

.
I Think I'll Retire from here (tnet) seems how it's just a hassle to post things that aren't worth posting anyway!

I hope we can all get along and we dont need to lose any more members. I was also hoping to see a pic of these high domed Colonial buttons that match because I dont have any. I guess its too much to ask to post a picture to support an ID. It would be nice to say I learned something but I did not.

As far as finding 20th century items, living here in South Florida, I am lucky to find anything older than 1964 inland. And I dont think its right to put someone down if Mercury dimes is what they find.. When did it become a game and the person with the oldest finds wins? And the person with modern finds is somehow a lesser person? Its not a contest, just a hobby and to each his own. I enjoyed seeing your Spanish buttons but I enjoy seeing a cool 1900 watch fob just as well. Just my opinion.

If it comes to that where lesser finds are ridiculed, Ill retire from TN with you timekiller.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I gather the comment on the Merc was to me, so you should look at what I replied to. "If" anything it was mocking me but I didn't read much into it, as you are doing to my post.

I dont mean to make it look as if Im aiming at you. Its meant for anyone that ridicules someone with lesser finds or tries to say they are a better metal detectorist than someone else. I know we all like to make great finds but I just dont like the 'Im better than you' or 'Im smarter than you' part, I guess..

...and maybe I misunderstood, but a member is so upset over it that he wants to quit TN.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Well if you want to take a light hearted post and make it serious that is up to you. You might notice I decided to drop the replies shortly after just for that reason, because some people laugh one minute, then the next there's big issues.

Sometimes is very hard to tell when a person is joking or not online. Thats why smileys are so important to express emotions but they can also be used sarcastically.

Its no biggie and I hope nobody quits TN over this but sometimes I feel some people are using TN as a contest to see who is better and maybe I am guilty as well. We all need to make the extra effort to be courteous and treat other members with respect. This includes myself.

 

[Silver Searcher]

What we need here is a BIG group hug and move on

SS

 

[CRUSADER]

What we need here is a BIG group hug and move on

SS

Do you want some tacks to hold that photo up

Moe,
I have had plenty of high domed tacks, not so many buttons

 

[Moe (fl)]

What we need here is a BIG group hug and move on

SS

Do you want some tacks to hold that photo up

Moe,
I have had plenty of high domed tacks, not so many buttons

Thanks Crusader. Can you post a picture of the high domed tacks?

Could this button/tack have come from an English ship?

Moe

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Thanks Crusader. Can you post a picture of the high domed tacks?

Could somebody post a picture of a high domed button.

 

[CRUSADER]

What we need here is a BIG group hug and move on

SS

Do you want some tacks to hold that photo up

Moe,
I have had plenty of high domed tacks, not so many buttons

Thanks Crusader. Can you post a picture of the high domed tacks?

Could this button/tack have come from an English ship?

Moe

no, as I said before, I may find hundreds (normal 3-4 an outing) but they are junk. If I remember next time I get one I may keep a few examples for posts like this.
Yes could be British