Olber Manifest, and other fables of fantasy

[Hal Croves]

Hal,

Most of us know exactly who twisted the truth, and who is twisting it today. By all means continue your quest to find the truth. If you actually know "How that happened", why not tell the story here and now? You say what "happened is a fantastic story". This is your chance to bring that story into the light of day. Let's see it so we can all decide the truth for ourselves.

Right now, you are much like those who pop up, seemingly daily, with new claims of finding the LDM. Give us the evidence. What positive thing can come from having the story told and "twisted a dozen times before we (the public) learn the truth."?

I wish you luck,

Joe Ribaudo

How do you not see the hypocrisy in what you just posted?
You can't expect me to explain something that I obviously have questions about.
How did it happen? Who knows how it happened? Do you? If so, why don't you explain it so everyone can learn from it?
Put aside your feelings for Bob, Matthew, and anyone else involved and explain it.
Could you possibly be that impartial?

Nothing positive can come from having the story "twisted" which is why you should explain it...
...if you can.

 

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[deducer]

Hal, here's something for you:

 

[Hal Croves]

joe...i would say hal is more like a pesky little fly ..and as long as he isn't pestering you too bad ..leave him alone....but occasionally he gets too close and must be swatted

You aren't lifting cartoon captions from Gagged & Bound Magazine are you?
Rascal.

 

[cactusjumper]

joe...i would say hal is more like a pesky little fly ..and as long as he isn't pestering you too bad ..leave him alone....but occasionally he gets too close and must be swatted

Dave,

I have no problem with Hal digging for what he believes is the truth. The fact is, those involved in the original research into these "facts", were not looking to discredit someone, but to find any evidence to support the stories. It turned into discovering that someone had been manufacturing, not only, false evidence but an entirely fictional life for himself.

The reason why the "true" story, according to Hal, can't be presented here is because there is still evidence out there to prove all of the allegations that have been made. Too many people know the "life story" as presented by the source to make the reasons for the false story to fly.

No one wanted our information to be in error, more than Paul and myself. Normally I know better than to speak for Paul, but I know this to be the fact and he seldom posts here anymore.

All of the prior stories have not been lost/deleted. They do make an interesting historical novel. Even though I know the truth, I would buy the book. On the other hand, I have been known to read the back of a cereal box now and again......in a pinch. I understand that must seem quite strange to you, but desperate men do desperate things.

Take care,

Joe

 

[Hal Croves]

Hal, here's something for you:


View attachment 1249974

I spent so much time looking that its hard to believe I missed that.
Thank you so much.

Victor

 

[Hal Croves]

Dave,

I have no problem with Hal digging for what he believes is the truth. The fact is, those involved in the original research into these "facts", were not looking to discredit someone, but to find any evidence to support the stories. It turned into discovering that someone had been manufacturing, not only, false evidence but an entirely fictional life for himself.

The reason why the "true" story, according to Hal, can't be presented here is because there is still evidence out there to prove all of the allegations that have been made. Too many people know the "life story" as presented by the source to make the reasons for the false story to fly.

No one wanted our information to be in error, more than Paul and myself. Normally I know better than to speak for Paul, but I know this to be the fact and he seldom posts here anymore.

All of the prior stories have not been lost/deleted. They do make an interesting historical novel. Even though I know the truth, I would buy the book. On the other hand, I have been known to read the back of a cereal box now and again......in a pinch. I understand that must seem quite strange to you, but desperate men do desperate things.

Take care,

Joe

This makes absolutely no sense.

 

[cactusjumper]

How do you not see the hypocrisy in what you just posted?
You can't expect me to explain something that I obviously have questions about.
How did it happen? Who knows how it happened? Do you? If so, why don't you explain it so everyone can learn from it?
Put aside your feelings for Bob, Matthew, and anyone else involved and explain it.
Could you possibly be that impartial?

Nothing positive can come from having the story "twisted" which is why you should explain it...
...if you can.

Hal,

I have been exposing this story for a number of years now. Fact is, I was willing to live and let live when Matthew came on this site. At first, he brought in extra IDs to support what he wrote and to go after me like he did over on DUSA. I told him it wouldn't work, because these Moderators would actually read my posts they were complaining about. They caught the extra memberships and ended it.

He did not give up, but has now been banned for a year. That was to protect the topics and posts that he had done here. You are, I assume, aware of his past mass deletions. I don't know why he did it. We have asked him many times, and have received 0 replies. I could post the emails I sent him.

I am no hypocrite! Name calling will not be your answers.

"Fables and Fantasies" is part of the subject here, and a fitting place for this story. If he, and his friends would not keep coming after me, I would be more than happy to make this my last post on Matthew Roberts.

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo

 

[Hal Croves]

Hal,

I have been exposing this story for a number of years now. Fact is, I was willing to live and let live when Matthew came on this site. At first, he brought in extra IDs to support what he wrote and to go after me like he did over on DUSA. I told him it wouldn't work, because these Moderators would actually read my posts they were complaining about. They caught the extra memberships and ended it.

He did not give up, but has now been banned for a year. That was to protect the topics and posts that he had done here. You are, I assume, aware of his past mass deletions.

"Fables and Fantasies" is part of the subject here, and a fitting place for this story. If he, and his friends would not keep coming after me, I would be more than happy to make this my last post on Matthew Roberts.

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo

Joe,
I honestly don't care about anything but that document making it to print.
Its clear that it came from Matthew.
But at the end of the day, that is no excuse for it slipping thru competent hands.
So, one last time.
Is the document in Helen's book something made specifically for the book, taken from another document or notes or, is it the document that Matthew, Helen, and Helen's Publisher believed to be an official ISTG transcription?
You have presented Bob Corbin as your friend on several occasions.
Why not ask him if you don't have the answer?

Once you have it we can compare notes.
Until then, you are sidestepping.

 

[cactusjumper]

Joe,
I honestly don't care about anything but that document making it to print.
Its clear that it came from Matthew.
But at the end of the day, that is no excuse for it slipping thru competent hands.
So, one last time.
Is the document in Helen's book something made specifically for the book, taken from another document or notes or, is it the document that Matthew, Helen, and Helen's Publisher believed to be an official ISTG transcription?
You have presented Bob Corbin as your friend on several occasions.
Why not ask him if you don't have the answer?

Once you have it we can compare notes.
Until then, you are sidestepping.

Hal,

There is no use in your continued attempts to bait me into a fight....It won't happen.

I don't know the answers to your questions. No sidestepping there. Bob is our friend, and I won't drag him into this game either. Why do you assume that Matthew "believed it to be an official ISTG transcription"? Are you speaking to or for Matthew? Why don't you tell us what Matthew has told you about it? Has he told you his source? Did he pay that person with cash or a check.

Joe Ribaudo

 

[azdave35]

Joe,
I honestly don't care about anything but that document making it to print.
Its clear that it came from Matthew.
But at the end of the day, that is no excuse for it slipping thru competent hands.
So, one last time.
Is the document in Helen's book something made specifically for the book, taken from another document or notes or, is it the document that Matthew, Helen, and Helen's Publisher believed to be an official ISTG transcription?
You have presented Bob Corbin as your friend on several occasions.
Why not ask him if you don't have the answer?

Once you have it we can compare notes.
Until then, you are sidestepping.

sounds to me like joe has already satisfied himself that he has the truth...i'd say if you think otherwise then you need to call bob corbin ...i'm sure he'd be glad to drop what he is doing and converse with you...lol

 

[Oroblanco]

Hmmm - I was under the impression that he was an 'educated' man ... but, in all honesty, that may well have been one of the 'other' JW's - difficult to know as long as we don't really know when/how he came - 'he' being the JW _we_ are interested in ... *sigh* tis a mystery ...

All true - we do not really know if Jacob Waltz was educated or illiterate. To make matters worse, remember the Ludys, also "Dutchmen" and mistakenly interwoven into the LDM story. Was it Waltz that was educated, or was it the Ludys, or vice versa? Hard to say at this point. However Waltz did sign the petition for aid against the Indians, that signature is the one I would judge others by. Or perhaps if his homestead claim can be turned up.

As with everything LDM - it also gets worse. Not just the Ludy story has gotten blended into the LDM, for example I have seen it mentioned about how the Dutchman would wrap the feet of his burros in burlap so he could sneak out of town un-noticed. This detail actually comes from a different Lost Dutchman mine, located in the Vulture mountains and can not be the same man or mine. Getting facts sorted out properly is not going to be easy.

 

[cactusjumper]

sounds to me like joe has already satisfied himself that he has the truth...i'd say if you think otherwise then you need to call bob corbin ...i'm sure he'd be glad to drop what he is doing and converse with you...lol

Dave,

To be perfectly clear, I considered Matthew my friend. I had no idea what was going on behind my back, even though Peter told me. It took a great deal of evidence to convince me my friend had been lying to me for years. I have posted my first reaction to his history being questioned on the Feldman Forum.

Despite them seeing the evidence, many of his old friends still believe in him. I believe one of them is working in the background trying to whitewash........everything. That person is likely contacting many of you. Defaming those who did the research work will be a primary objective for that person. Questioning Tom and Bob's honesty is another tactic. Tell me Dave, have you been contacted? What about you Hal?

Take care,

Joe

 

[cw0909]

i found a Jacob Waltz emigrated 1839, i search jacob waltz at
the Historisches Museum Bremerhaven, it is a pay for
but i wonder what i would be paying for, as i think we know
about an 1839 JW or am i mistaken about a 1839 JW

for english click flag
Deutsche Auswanderer-Datenbank (DAD) ? Online



sorry forgot the example, the example comes from
quelle national archive usa
http://www.deutsche-auswanderer-datenbank.de/typo3temp/pics/fef4b18486.jpg

 

[azdave35]

Dave,

To be perfectly clear, I considered Matthew my friend. I had no idea what was going on behind my back, even though Peter told me. It took a great deal of evidence to convince me my friend had been lying to me for years. I have posted my first reaction to his history being questioned on the Feldman Forum.

Despite them seeing the evidence, many of his old friends still believe in him. I believe one of them is working in the background trying to whitewash........everything. That person is likely contacting many of you. Defaming those who did the research work will be a primary objective for that person. Questioning Tom and Bob's honesty is another tactic. Tell me Dave, have you been contacted? What about you Hal?

Take care,

Joe

joe...actually i dont hear too much about the situation..i did a few years back from a friend but anymore just what is posted on the forum..speaking of peter..whatever happened to him?

 

[cactusjumper]

joe...actually i dont hear too much about the situation..i did a few years back from a friend but anymore just what is posted on the forum..speaking of peter..whatever happened to him?

Dave,

Last I heard, Peter was selling homes in Phoenix. He contacted me for some pictures of a home up here, but I never heard from him after I sent him the pictures. Someone told me he got a divorce.

I only have a few close friends who post on forums anymore. The others avoid them like the plague. I only do it out of boredom and habit. I have lots of free time, and I'm not able to do much with it. Our kids have all of our outdoor equipment. It does make us happy that they can get some enjoyment out of it.

Take care,

Joe

 

[azdave35]

Dave,

Last I heard, Peter was selling homes in Phoenix. He contacted me for some pictures of a home up here, but I never heard from him after I sent him the pictures. Someone told me he got a divorce.

I only have a few close friends who post on forums anymore. The others avoid them like the plague. I only do it out of boredom and habit. I have lots of free time, and I'm not able to do much with it. Our kids have all of our outdoor equipment. It does make us happy that they can get some enjoyment out of it.

Take care,

Joe

same here joe..i'm just on here for entertainment....i haven't dutch hunted in years...

 

[cactusjumper]

Dave,

Actually, I was never a Dutch Hunter.....proper. As I have stated many times, I never searched for the LDM on my own. I did participate with my Uncle Chuck in his efforts, as well as Dale Howard, but never on my own. On the other hand, I did research the LDM as well as I could over the years. Now the cave of gold bars was another story altogether, but prior to that, I was a firm believer in Jesuit Treasure.

Too much contrary evidence, found by reading the history of Mexico and the Jesuits over the years to support that hobby. I consider the learning/reading of that history to be the real treasure.

Take care,

Joe

 

[Hal Croves]

Dave,

To be perfectly clear, I considered Matthew my friend. I had no idea what was going on behind my back, even though Peter told me. It took a great deal of evidence to convince me my friend had been lying to me for years. I have posted my first reaction to his history being questioned on the Feldman Forum.

Despite them seeing the evidence, many of his old friends still believe in him. I believe one of them is working in the background trying to whitewash........everything. That person is likely contacting many of you. Defaming those who did the research work will be a primary objective for that person. Questioning Tom and Bob's honesty is another tactic. Tell me Dave, have you been contacted? What about you Hal?

Take care,

Joe

What about me?
Joe, I consider Matthew a friend. I offered my hand in friendship, he took it, and I am not one to easily dissolve a friendship. With that said, I was not around when all this happened and was not hurt by him or the things that passed thru his, Helen's, and the publishers hands. If I were, I certainly would not use TNet as a means to hound or malign a one time friend. I might work to correct posted errors, intentional or not, but that is where it would end, publicly.

Regarding Peter, I don't know the man. I also don't see where there are people attacking you and I have not been contacted in anyway by anyone on Matthew's behalf. I am also not looking to pull you into an argument or to embarrass you among your circle of friends. I have legitimate questions about the document in Helen's book because of the confusion it caused. You were effected by it and I should think that you would want to know what it is that we are looking at. You obviously don't as you now have shared. I don't know either and Helen is not with us to ask so, that leaves the publisher.

I don't know Tom or Bob and have no reason to question their "honesty". I will say that I have found several errors in Tom's work but, since he is repeating (preserving) narratives as they come to him, errors have to be expected. Corrections should also be expected, if not appreciated.

 

[Hal Croves]

same here joe..i'm just on here for entertainment....i haven't dutch hunted in years...

Hats off for your honesty Dave.

 

[azdave35]

Hats off for your honesty Dave.

are you kidding hal?....you are the most entertaining clown on here...thanks for the many laughs....you should be on tv