Odyssey Explorer seized in Limassol

[reindeer47]

Jolly Mon, you're really unfair. I am a stockholder. (Although you're correct that I'm not an archaeologist). And describing anybody as sad, sick and pathetic, and living in a fantasy world, is inappropriate. I hope the moderators take note.

Also, I request of the moderators that they recognize that I haven't said an unkind or impolite word about anybody. Why should I? Why would I? Yet Jolly Mon, who doesn't know me from Mars, labels me sad, sick, pathetic and living in a fantasy world (i.e. delusional). One really shouldn't speak this way.

 

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[Treasure_Hunter]

Golly Gee. What a coincidence.

AUVnav is banned from the site. Just by chance a brand new member who also clearly has no interest in treasure hunting appears. Amazingly, this brand new member also seems obsessed with Odyssey's stock price and the minutiae of its business dealings to the point of mentioning Odyssey's phosphate mining operations on a treasure hunting forum.

I think the moderators should check AUVnav's IP address and compare it to new member Rudolf the Red Nosed Reindeer47's IP address...my guess is that they will find that these posts are coming from the same location. And it ain't Australia.

When you have issues or suspension please contact the mods via PM.

AUVnav and Reindeer are not the same member, Reindeer is not even in the same part of the world as AUV...

 

[silverking]

"TREASURENET" seems to me the wrong forum to discuss your highly personal stock market concerns and opinions.

If you're unhappy with OMEX business or trading practices, you probably need to discuss those issues on a stock market forum, or in a letter to OMEX.

Anti-treasure hunting archaeologists and stock market players really need to get it through their heads that a pro-treasure hunting forum isn't going to welcome them any longer, and that their best bet would be to seek out, or establish their own anti-treasure-hunting forum.

Posters to TREASURENET who are anti-treasure hunting in any way, shape or form are nothing more than internet trolls masquerading as "interested parties".

 

[VOC]

Hello agflit, I obviously can't speak for AUVnav, but I think I know his objection to OMEX. I certainly can tell you my objection. I think they are not fully honest, I know they could be much less opaque, and I think that they don't consider the difficulty for the average investor when they don't provide sufficient information. They of course do meet their minimum obligations re: the SEC. But beyond that, they seem to be indifferent to the fact that we all know they're running on cash flow fumes (i.e. their cash position almost always is precarious), and they seem to not care if we investors are aware of the details, of the depth of the problem, of the very real possibility that the company will not be able to pay its bills.

Right now is a classic case in point. Let's start with the good news. In mid-December OMEX sold off a good chunk of their business. In return, they received substantial debt relief, along with $1 million in cash. They also have been working a site near Lebanon the last several months, and have been getting paid their day rate. OMEX's calculations were that the cash on hand (in mid-December) plus the payments for the work (at the day rate) would be sufficient to keep the company afloat through the end of March. This latter date is important, because OMEX hopes to receive a substantial equity infusion from a strategic partner. This equity infusion has the potential to turn the company around. However, the equity is ENTIRELY conditional on the Mexican environmental agency (Semarnat) providing a positive response to a project for which OMEX holds a 54% interest. So, to sum up so far, having cash through March is CRUCIAL. The company must survive long enough to receive (hopefully) a favorable environmental ruling from Semarnat.

The current problem, and it could be enormous, is that OMEX's salvage vessel--the Odyssey Explorer (OE)--has been tied up for over three weeks in Cyprus, and now for several days in Lebanon, as the Lebanese government determines whether the necessary permits to do the current project are in effect. This evaluation can take a long, long time. Now, even though the OE is out of commission, presumably through no fault of OMEX's, it is still possible that OMEX is being paid a day rate. After all, it's their employer (unnamed) who put them where they are.

But it's also possible that they're being paid nada, zilch, zero. And if this is the case, then OMEX (as is often true) will run out of cash shortly, and won't survive until March (when it is estimated that Semarnat will make its decision). So, this literally is life or death for the investors. And of course we know nothing.

And what do we hear from the company--NOTHING. And that's what's infuriating.

I could write much, much more, on a variety of different issues related to OMEX's lack of transparency (and I would go "out there" and also say lack of 100% honesty). I'll leave it here for now

Reindeer 47 / just_the_facts68


Trying to answer on behalf of AuvNav is interesting as Nav's interest in OMEX is nothing to do with stock holding as he does not hold any.

If I did not believe in any companies honesty I would sell any stock I owned and reinvest in a company that I did believe in, rather than posting anti-company blogs on the internet as this can only deflate the stock price further.

Even if I hated management in a stock I held, I would still bull the company up publically and then take issue with the management personally.

If you really are a stockholder you should understand that OMEX has to be secrative especially with all the mischief making anti-omex archeaologist doing everything they can to thwart every operation they undertake. Car manufactures and technology companies are no different keeping a lot of what they are up to completely in house until they are ready to announce.

I believe I have read post from you elswhere and look to see your impartiality going forward.

PS: Who says the OE is not still under charter and was not under charter whilst in Cyprus ?

 

[Au_Dreamers]

reindeer47,

Welcome to TreasureNet !

 

[jeff of pa]

Jolly Mon, you're really unfair. I am a stockholder. (Although you're correct that I'm not an archaeologist). And describing anybody as sad, sick and pathetic, and living in a fantasy world, is inappropriate. I hope the moderators take note.

Also, I request of the moderators that they recognize that I haven't said an unkind or impolite word about anybody. Why should I? Why would I? Yet Jolly Mon, who doesn't know me from Mars, labels me sad, sick, pathetic and living in a fantasy world (i.e. delusional). One really shouldn't speak this way.

reindeer47 ; anytime a new member signs up & goes directly to a thread where someone was just banned naturally sends up Red Flags
& trust me, The second I saw your first post here I checked your IP.
I also Bow to Treasure Hunters extra research and words confirming you are not a Banned Member.

Welcome to TreasureNet & I hope everyone can get along here now

Jeff

 

[Tnmountains]

ah mannnnnnnnn.....do you realize HOW much thought...the sheer magnitude of cerebral weightlifting...I engaged in to formulate that response? I may even be accused of being "civilized" if anyone that knows me ever see's it!!

Geesh......sigh.....no good deed goes unpunished I guess.

I vote we change T'H's name to "KILLJOY"!!!


Ag

I am the KillJoy on this. It is simple. Treasurenet "The worlds largest treasure hunting website. It is our Title.

 

[jeff of pa]

correct ! if someone doesn't Like Treasure Hunters , they probably shouldn't sign up Here

 

[Darren in NC]

The plot thickens...

EXCLUSIVE: ODYSSEY EXPLORER CARGO SEIZED BECAUSE OMEX VIOLATED CYPRIOT CUSTOMS LAWS ? thePipeLine

 

[silverking]

It's difficult to take any reports from a biased news site (Pipeline) very seriously. Their overt agenda seems to overwhelm their ability to report the actual news.
Besides the highly subjective closing lines of the article, the article fails completely to elaborate on what precisely constituted a "customs violation", which to experienced ears sounds like a creative attempt by the government to find something the Cypriots can use to attempt to hold the artifacts.

Not that there isn't potential for OMEX to have made a grievous error if they choose to head into Cypriot waters after collecting the artifacts ... perhaps to get fuel, or to spend a few days at the dock. Very large miscalculation if they did so. Even if they made their recovery in undisputed international waters, and are the rightful owners of the artifacts ... then choosing to head into the arms of a third world government doesn't seem like the wisest of ideas.

On the other hand, if OMEX were forced or cajoled into Cypriot waters while underway in international waters, it's impossible to accept that their arrival would then constitute a "customs violation".
In this case, the only voice that counts would be that of OMEX explaining what happened in detail, and that hasn't happened.

And as noted in an earlier post, EEZ's don't include cultural artifacts, only natural resources, so Lebanon having a claim on the artifacts is a non-starter.

 

[VOC]

The plot thickens...

EXCLUSIVE: ODYSSEY EXPLORER CARGO SEIZED BECAUSE OMEX VIOLATED CYPRIOT CUSTOMS LAWS ? thePipeLine

The Pipeline is a dreadful web site that only post the negative side of any OMEX story, and they like to dramatise this with words like “Breaking News” or “Exclusive” when all they actually do is eventually pick up on stories that are already in the public domain, like this particular story that was Posted on 11[SUP]th[/SUP] January 2015 (Pipeline was only 9 days late reporting this story as a breaking news exclusive) http://www.foni-lemesos.com/news/le...loneio-tin-ypothesi-tou-odyssey-explorer.html Maybe they have never heard of Google Translate LOL

The Pipeline also forgot to mention that the Lebanese did not send anyone to Cyprus, and that is one very big clue as to who’s jurisdiction that they are legally operating within.

They are also wrong to say that they were find for illegally importing artifacts, when the trumped up charge was actually for "not completing the customs form properly" by describing a recovered cargo as cargo and not antiquities.

Cyprus had so much egg on their face after seizing the vessel on a unsubstantiated rumor, that they had to trump a up charge so that OMEX could not bring an expensive claim for wrongful arrest. That’s why Cyprus shut the news reports down as they knew they were totally in the wrong, especially after being shown the details of the totaly legal UNESCO compliant archaeological operation.

There has been so much miss information put out by the now defunct poster AuvNav on this thread that its worth setting the record straight.

AuvNav’s claims:

"You are kidding, correct? What do you think Contempt of Court is? Odyssey was fined $1.2 Million Dollars for Contempt.
Charged and found guilty of Contempt."

Were there any “charges” laid for contempt of court “No”
Was there a “court case” for Contempt of Court “No”
Was anybody summoned to attend court for Contempt of Court “No”
Was anybody “prosecuted” for Contempt of Court “No”
Was OMEX “fined” for Contempt of Court “No”
Was anybody “jailed” for Contempt of Court “No”

The case that this relates to was Spain trying to claim 100% of their legal fees for the Mercedes case and the judge has to asses the amount, so being ordered to pay "66%" of your opponents legal fees for being “in contempt” by acting in poor faith, is not the same at all as being Charged, Found Guilty and Fined for Contempt of Court in criminal proceedings. http://legaltimes.typepad.com/files/odyssey.pdf

And we all know from Wikileaks the gross injustice of this case. WikiLeaks Cables Cited in Lawsuit Over $500 Million Sunken Treasure | WIRED

"Don't forget the SEC charges on the Tortugas debaucle. Charged and prosecuted for securities fraud".

In 1994 the Securities and Exchange Commission sued Seahawk, Stemm, and Morris, alleging fraud and insider trading.

Seahawk settled with the SEC without admitting or denying the claims; a condition of the deal was that Stemm and Morris resign.

The two executives decided to fight the allegations against them in court, and at the same time formed a new treasure hunting company, later named Odyssey. They took it public in September 1997, before their trial even began.

After a jury found in their favor in November, some of the same investors came back, Eventually Odyssey’s investors included Fortress Investment Group, Raj Rajaratnam’s Galleon Group, and BlackRock, which still holds a stake.


"The Mercedes, criminal charges in Court of Linea in Spain, investigation still pending". No one Charged, Found Guilty or Fined after all these years.

"The Gairsoppa, Investigation pending for overcharging $4.5 million. pending investigation". No one Charged, Found Guilty or Fined after all these years.


"MMO. Charged and found guilty of working the Victory site without a permit. Deferred sentencing. MMO permit still pending".

Actually situation: OMEX Not charged or found guilty of anything.

After a careful review of this evidence, I am satisfied that there is sufficient evidence to provide a realistic prospect of conviction for the offences listed above and the facts of this case have now been considered and recorded. In this instance, however, it has been decided not to prosecute you for the offences and instead to mark these offences with an Official Written Warning for the offences, in accordance with the MMO’s compliance and enforcement strategy.”

In the UK we have a legal system where you have to be taken to court and "Found Guilty" before you can be regarded as guilty or sentenced.

Government departments often lose their cases when both sides present their cases, there is not any indication whatsoever that the MMO would have won any case against OMEX even if they did try and prosecute, as they are an organisation in total disarray and you can drive coach and horses through their legislation and procedures e.g. Whitsand Bay dumping permit was illegally issued | West Country (W) - ITV News

"Earnesto Tapanas, charged and convicted of insider trading in OMEX, Currently still working for Odyssey". Tapanas was an external consultant who on finding the site, Tapanes and others signed a confidentiality agreement agreeing to keep the find confidential and not to trade in Odyssey Marine stock. In breach of his duty of trust and confidence, and while in possession of material, nonpublic information about that discovery, Tapanes purchased Odyssey Marine stock prior to Odyssey Marine's public announcement of the discovery. His dealings were nothing to do with OMEX as he had signed to say he would not buy or sell shares.

"Odyssey Explorer and Ocean Alert detained when leaving Gib on criminal charges", Released without any charges, court proceedings, prosecutions or fines

"Vorus arrested". Captain arrested for not allowing Spanish Authorities to board the ship as they had not contacted the Flag State of the vessel first, as they should have done. Released without any charges, court proceedings, prosecutions or fines

 

[ARC]

I think VOC's post above pretty much sums it all up.

 

[Darren in NC]

Cyprus had so much egg on their face after seizing the vessel on a unsubstantiated rumor, that they had to trump a up charge so that OMEX could not bring an expensive claim for wrongful arrest.

This was my sense of the article, even with the spin that the PIpeline tried to put on it.

 

[Vox veritas]

Since its inception Odyssey Marine has been surrounded by shadows, lawsuits, claims and secrecy. It is an undeniable fact.

 

[Jason in Enid]

Since its inception Odyssey Marine has been surrounded by shadows, lawsuits, claims and secrecy. It is an undeniable fact.

They recover multi-million dollar treasures from the sea floor. That automatically means they are going to have secrecy about operations. There are always people who want to take that treasure which results in claims and lawsuits. There are almost no end to the jealous archies who are mad the they aren't the ones making the recoveries (and getting govt $$$$ to do it)

That's like condemning farmers for disrupting the soil, miners for digging holes, or ranchers for raising and slaughtering animals. There are always people who don't like what you legally do, so they try every tactic including BS lawsuits to try to harass you out of business.

 

[silverking]

Vox Veritas, it's actually a deniable fact, and despite owning and enjoying your book, I have to ask why you continue to endlessly troll this forum with your anti-treasure hunting agenda?

Really, folks here are no longer interested in your crusade against treasure hunters, least of all in a forum dedicated to treasure hunters!

Get on board, or hit the bricks.

 

[agflit]

Vox Veritas, it's actually a deniable fact, and despite owning and enjoying your book, I have to ask why you continue to endlessly troll this forum with your anti-treasure hunting agenda?

Really, folks here are no longer interested in your crusade against treasure hunters, least of all in a forum dedicated to treasure hunters!

Get on board, or hit the bricks.

Wow..just..wow. I guess I;m more than alittle surprised by the voracity of this response. Interesting the way different individuals interpret the same things...

JMO..but as little as I have been exposed to VOx's inputs, I have always been left with an impression of well thought out, reasonable information. Matter a fact... I enjoy reading his postings, due to, what I have thought, was impartial and reasonable input. Never really noticed anything that would leave me thinking he had an ax to grind...

I was very much left with the impression that the commentary was simply an assertation about how Odyssee as a Co operates...and given the nature of WHAT..and WHERE...they do it..I can fully understand the Co position of "less is more" when it comes to public information and comment.

JMO...


Ag

 

[silverking]

VV's agenda - which is anti-treasure hunting - is firmly established on this forum.
My "voracity" is non-existant, as my assertions are obvious, and my questions are more than fair questions to ask of a poster who is clearly anti-treasure hunting.

My question is why those with anti-treasure hunting agendas continue to post on a pro-treasure hunting forum?
It is indeed internet trolling in its most classic form, and causes one to ponder that perhaps this is the wrong place to troll, considering most folks who post here are clearly pro-treasure hunting, and the forum itself is a pro-treasure hunting forum.

"get on board or hit the bricks" seems (to me) a fair comment to make when directed at somebody clearly trolling the forum.

Note too that, having purchased and complimented VV's book, this is not personal in the slightest.

 

[Salvor6]

I have known Claudio (VV) for over 20 years. He is a treasure hunter. He has worked for several big treasure hunting companies. I am really puzzled by his anti-thunting posts. What is he after?

 

[Jason in Enid]

I have known Claudio (VV) for over 20 years. He is a treasure hunter. He has worked for several big treasure hunting companies. I am really puzzled by his anti-thunting posts. What is he after?

Competition?