Oak Island the Strange, the Bizarre, and Maybe the "Truth!

[Treasure_Hunter]

Alan m, please post by our rules, no insulting members.

 

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[Tom_in_CA]

I keep coming back hoping for an honest evidenced backed(on both sides) debate on the story ....

b3y0nd3r : As for "evidence" on the side of the skeptics: This has been discussed many times : A) That is shifting the burden of proof, and B) It would be trying to "prove a negative" (Eg.: to prove there isn't invisible men, etc...). What's not "honest" about this ?

...The treasure(or lack of) seems to be what is what people here really want to debate....

Which is fine. That's the name of this sub-section on T'net after all. Right ? That's the title of this thread after all, right ? And let's be utterly honest (based on your own quotes) : Isn't that what you TOO are talking about ? Isn't it what we ALL want to believe in, after ? This is "treasure" net after all. Not "fiber" net. Right ?

... I think it's pirate in origin. Most likely Spanish treasure plundered from South America.

Which is fine, if we start with an implied premise: That there is treasure there. But wait, I thought you were only interested in "links"? Or "out of place trees"? Or"fibers" ? See how your own statements reveal that ... your/ours ultimate goal is: "Is there a treasure ?"

.... Any ideas, commnts (useful). cachenut.

Speculation on those fun details, has an implied premise: That all the legend details , are true historical in the first place. Ie.: pointing to the legend, as proof of the legend (circular). And that they can't all be attributed to more plausible explanations. Eg.: telephone game, speculations that eventually get quoted as fact as the decades/centuries roll on, etc....

And also, you have to keep in mind that various "mysterious things" can't equally be found found on any spot on planet earth. Eg.: "mysterious lights", and "strange sounds", and "links" and "fibers" and "boys out exploring" and "pirates that were said to have skirted by such & such location ", etc....

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Not possible? The jews and the romans did it over 2000 years ago, just to name a few

Presto: The perfect example of wack-a-mole. If any skeptic tried to show the unlikelieness of some event or task, the contrary view needs-merely to show some extreme contingency-to-which such a feat *could* or *did* occur. Eg. "given enough slaves and enough years" etc.... Presto: The ball is punted back to the other court. And the legend is still "iron clad true", right ?

 

[Al D]

Presto: The perfect example of wack-a-mole. If any skeptic tried to show the unlikelieness of some event or task, the contrary view needs-merely to show some extreme contingency-to-which such a feat *could* or *did* occur. Eg. "given enough slaves and enough years" etc.... Presto: The ball is punted back to the other court. And the legend is still "iron clad true", right ?

My response has nothing to do with the ledgend, a blanket statement was made which required a response, the knowledge of the ability to construct such tunnels is common knowledge among most serious researchers, it is not necessary for every statement to be backed up with an encyclopedia of such information, people whom are intetested will do their own research, some however seem only interested in stirring the pot.
if you have trouble with finding info on what you seek, then I, as well as many others here will be glad to help, but please do not expect us to do the reasearch for you.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

My response has nothing to do with the ledgend, ....

Odd that it appears on a thread dealing with the legend. But ... ok . Then yes: I agree *totally possible*. Mankind has built pyramids, flown to the moon, etc.... Those are all "givens". If someone tries to point out those feats as evidence for a possible treasure (ie.: "the legend"), that's one thing. But as you're saying here : It has nothing to do with that. Ok.

 

[b3y0nd3r]

b3y0nd3r : As for "evidence" on the side of the skeptics: This has been discussed many times : A) That is shifting the burden of proof, and B) It would be trying to "prove a negative" (Eg.: to prove there isn't invisible men, etc...). What's not "honest" about this ?



Which is fine. That's the name of this sub-section on T'net after all. Right ? That's the title of this thread after all, right ? And let's be utterly honest (based on your own quotes) : Isn't that what you TOO are talking about ? Isn't it what we ALL want to believe in, after ? This is "treasure" net after all. Not "fiber" net. Right ?



Which is fine, if we start with an implied premise: That there is treasure there. But wait, I thought you were only interested in "links"? Or "out of place trees"? Or"fibers" ? See how your own statements reveal that ... your/ours ultimate goal is: "Is there a treasure ?"


Speculation on those fun details, has an implied premise: That all the legend details , are true historical in the first place. Ie.: pointing to the legend, as proof of the legend (circular). And that they can't all be attributed to more plausible explanations. Eg.: telephone game, speculations that eventually get quoted as fact as the decades/centuries roll on, etc....

And also, you have to keep in mind that various "mysterious things" can't equally be found found on any spot on planet earth. Eg.: "mysterious lights", and "strange sounds", and "links" and "fibers" and "boys out exploring" and "pirates that were said to have skirted by such & such location ", etc....

Nah, just playing the game people want. No one really wants to debate the story or the facets that prove it true. My last word on that.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

.... No one really wants to debate the story or the facets that prove it true. My last word on that.

Over 100 pages on this thread alone, and a TV show, and countless written books/articles/links ... Seems to show that people *do* really want to "debate the story or facts".

As for this being your "last word" , I'm sorry to hear that. Yours has been-the-voice of what-makes-legends tick . I realize that is the "genetic fallacy" on my part, but ........ You couldn't have asked for a better voice of the pro side.

 

[Al D]

Odd that it appears on a thread dealing with the legend. But ... ok . Then yes: I agree *totally possible*. Mankind has built pyramids, flown to the moon, etc.... Those are all "givens". If someone tries to point out those feats as evidence for a possible treasure (ie.: "the legend"), that's one thing. But as you're saying here : It has nothing to do with that. Ok.

The statement of which I was responding implied that it was impossible to dig a tunnel 1700 feet underground and end up beneath a predetermined spot. It is not impossible and has been done in the past. I offer no comment on the Oak Island fiasco,

 

[Tom_in_CA]

... It is not impossible and has been done in the past. I offer no comment on the Oak Island fiasco,

Correct. Not impossible. And no bearing at all on whether a fabulous treasure exists there

 

[Al D]

Correct. Not impossible. And no bearing at all on whether a fabulous treasure exists there

The fixation on treasure is extreme, Oak Island was most likely a shipyard with a sophisticated pump system for dry docking ships for repair, the “Bobby dazzlers” are nothing more that 18th century trinkets.

 

[xaos]

We have been proving the story. The coconut fibers alone prove the story.

ummm, well, no the fibers do not. Coconut fibers have been found off the coast in the Faeroe Islands, Scotland, and Norway.

In reality, coconuts are not native to the Caribbean, and were only introduced to the area in the early 1700's. The Portuguese carried the coconuts from Indonesia to the West Coast of Africa to cultivate. From Africa, the Dutch brought coconuts with them to the Caribbean with the slave trade.

To have an abundance of coconut fiber to fill a bay and otherwise use? Not likely, more like the Gulf Stream brought it there in more recent times. After all, with coconuts not even being introduced to the Caribbean until the early to mid 1700's, it seems doubtful that ships used packing to any extent prior to this time. I see virtually no evidence that Spanish or Portuguese ships of the day had coconut packing of the cargo.
To say that the 'evidence' shows the coconut packing as not native, and from the Caribbean is naive at best.



as far as the recently 'discovered' dock...

View attachment 1089149

and...



Hurricanes of 1849, prior to the 'finding' of a mat of coconut fibre in the bay at Oak Island...

On August 22, a strong hurricane impacted Havana, Cuba, destroying fruit trees and disrupting shipping, before making landfall on the Florida Panhandle with an enormous storm surge. Coastal flooding was severe around Apalachicola, and as the storm moved inland, it generated destructive winds across the southeastern United States. Abundant precipitation fell from Georgia through Virginia, causing extensive flooding; one river swelled over 20 feet (6 m) above its normal height. The storm blew down crops and trees along its course, and toppled a large railroad bridge near Halifax, North Carolina. Offshore, a pilot boat collided with a larger ship in the rough seas and sank. Considered the worst storm in nearly 30 years in the tidewater region of Virginia, the cyclone briefly reentered the Atlantic off New Jersey before making landfall over New England. Strong winds and moderate to heavy rains plagued much of New England on August 24 and 25.

On September 7 and 8, a hurricane brushed the coastline from New York to Cape Cod with gusty winds and appreciable rainfall, and left many ships in distress. The system later struck Atlantic Canada, likely causing "great loss of property and lives",[1] though damage reports were limited. Fragmented records exist of other hurricanes, including two which remained over open seas in early September and the middle of October.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

ummm, well, no the fibers do not. Coconut fibers have been found off the coast in ....

I love it

I will never forget the 20 pages that went on & on about coconut fibers, about a year ago on T'net. The locations in the world they can be found in. How they can or can't get there. Their purpose. Their country of origin. Their buoyancy rate. Ocean currents that can or can't carry them. Different species of coconuts. Their color. Their religion. Their age. etc... etc... etc... etc.....

By the 21st page, I finally asked: "What does this have to do with whether there's a treasure or not ?" And I began to see why most skeptics will simply not chime in on the discussion. Lest this type regression (wack-a-mole game) get started.

 

[lokiblossom]

I love it

I will never forget the 20 pages that went on & on about coconut fibers, about a year ago on T'net. The locations in the world they can be found in. How they can or can't get there. Their purpose. Their country of origin. Their buoyancy rate. Ocean currents that can or can't carry them. Different species of coconuts. Their color. Their religion. Their age. etc... etc... etc... etc.....

By the 21st page, I finally asked: "What does this have to do with whether there's a treasure or not ?" And I began to see why most skeptics will simply not chime in on the discussion. Lest this type regression (wack-a-mole game) get started.

Hey, lets go!!!

Cheers, Loki

 

[lokiblossom]

ummm, well, no the fibers do not. Coconut fibers have been found off the coast in the Faeroe Islands, Scotland, and Norway.

In reality, coconuts are not native to the Caribbean, and were only introduced to the area in the early 1700's. The Portuguese carried the coconuts from Indonesia to the West Coast of Africa to cultivate. From Africa, the Dutch brought coconuts with them to the Caribbean with the slave trade.

To have an abundance of coconut fiber to fill a bay and otherwise use? Not likely, more like the Gulf Stream brought it there in more recent times. After all, with coconuts not even being introduced to the Caribbean until the early to mid 1700's, it seems doubtful that ships used packing to any extent prior to this time. I see virtually no evidence that Spanish or Portuguese ships of the day had coconut packing of the cargo.
To say that the 'evidence' shows the coconut packing as not native, and from the Caribbean is naive at best.

View attachment 1676384

as far as the recently 'discovered' dock...

View attachment 1089149

and...

View attachment 1676386

Hurricanes of 1849, prior to the 'finding' of a mat of coconut fibre in the bay at Oak Island...

On August 22, a strong hurricane impacted Havana, Cuba, destroying fruit trees and disrupting shipping, before making landfall on the Florida Panhandle with an enormous storm surge. Coastal flooding was severe around Apalachicola, and as the storm moved inland, it generated destructive winds across the southeastern United States. Abundant precipitation fell from Georgia through Virginia, causing extensive flooding; one river swelled over 20 feet (6 m) above its normal height. The storm blew down crops and trees along its course, and toppled a large railroad bridge near Halifax, North Carolina. Offshore, a pilot boat collided with a larger ship in the rough seas and sank. Considered the worst storm in nearly 30 years in the tidewater region of Virginia, the cyclone briefly reentered the Atlantic off New Jersey before making landfall over New England. Strong winds and moderate to heavy rains plagued much of New England on August 24 and 25.

On September 7 and 8, a hurricane brushed the coastline from New York to Cape Cod with gusty winds and appreciable rainfall, and left many ships in distress. The system later struck Atlantic Canada, likely causing "great loss of property and lives",[1] though damage reports were limited. Fragmented records exist of other hurricanes, including two which remained over open seas in early September and the middle of October.

View attachment 1676402

Actually, you are part right. Coconuts were introduced to the Atlantic Basin in 1499 or 1500! But the dating of the coconut fibre on Oak Island is to a century or two or three (there were several datings) before that. If the fibre material is indeed coconut fibre it is impossible that it ended up on Oak Island naturally. And, in no way does the existence of the coconut fibre prove there ever was a treasure buried on Oak Island!

Cheers, Loki

 

[PirateLabs]

Haha, ok, then how about using Unicorns as an example of something that's "off the radar" and "silly superstition". ?

Evidently unicorns are real because PETA is upset that one is killed in a super bowl ad and want the ad banned. I kid you not.

Bill

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

The "unicorn" was a 1963 Jeep Gladiator pick-up put into a car crusher. I don't think PETA noticed.

 

[n2mini]

Actually, you are part right. Coconuts were introduced to the Atlantic Basin in 1499 or 1500! But the dating of the coconut fibre on Oak Island is to a century or two or three (there were several datings) before that. If the fibre material is indeed coconut fibre it is impossible that it ended up on Oak Island naturally. And, in no way does the existence of the coconut fibre prove there ever was a treasure buried on Oak Island!

Cheers, Loki

If this is true, the question has always been why did someone bring what is/was apparently alot of it to the island. Some think to filter water into the finger drains to the money pit, others think it was to filter the water to access the salt in it.. No one has said or shouldn't say that it means there is a treasure, only that why did they bring it and if you believe in the treasure this helps feed that... Boiling down ocean water is a much better way to extract the salt then to filter it thru coconut fibers and then have to separate it from that..

 

[lokiblossom]

If this is true, the question has always been why did someone bring what is/was apparently alot of it to the island. Some think to filter water into the finger drains to the money pit, others think it was to filter the water to access the salt in it.. No one has said or shouldn't say that it means there is a treasure, only that why did they bring it and if you believe in the treasure this helps feed that... Boiling down ocean water is a much better way to extract the salt then to filter it thru coconut fibers and then have to separate it from that..

I don't know that there was a lot of it. When the museum was going to let some go for dna testing they said they had very little. If there is as much as some indicate, why wouldn't there be more available?

My opinion as for its purpose would have been two-fold, it was used for packing cargo just as styrofoam peanuts are used today, and as 'coir' for rope, a necessity on sailing ships. This was how the material
would have been used in Palestine, Cyprus Egypt, and certainly in India where it had originated.

Cheers, Loki

 

[Stretch Da Truth]

As for the fibers, does anyone really believe they covered the whole cove? That is a LOT!
I can buy an area but not the whole cove.

This pic I found might explain why nothing is left on most parts of the island.



I am pretty sure this was Dunfield. He destroyed the island and any landmarks, markers, supporting structures and most evidence for anyones theories and ideas.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Evidently unicorns are real because PETA is upset that one is killed in a super bowl ad and want the ad banned. I kid you not.

Bill

I grew up 3 blocks from the 4th largest rodeo in the world (at the time) : Salinas, CA. And every year back when I was a kid in the 1970s, the PETA people would line up with their placards/signs, and distribute flyers, about how rodeo is cruel to animals. Needless to say (given the crowds coming to attend), they got jeered and ignored.

So I love to use "PETA" as an example of purist archies. Ie.: just as PETA will SCREECH over this stuff, so too will purist archies SCREECH over the (gasp) thought of some private citizen digging a cool old object. And just as we sometimes have to ignore PETA, so too do I put little stock into what some purist archies say. Haha