Now that the stone maps are out of the way, no movie/series....what's next?

[Holyground]

"Sometimes some things are better left unsaid"...lol...18 lugares...I still claim an old miner showed me a small coin sized stone that had the Roman numerals XVIII on it... Who knows who created that small stone and IF it has anything to do with 18 lugares...

Ed T

18 places to the mine. A small stone left at each location to verify exactly where they were, or at which "place." Left on the rock cairns top pointer stone or tucked neatly into the supporting stone of the cairn so it could be seen. Survey tags. Nothing of them exist today. Very lucky to have seen one. There is another number to denote the change of direction that was carved in the top pointer stone so there was no question. I remember in the 60's just about every oldtimer my Grandpa knew had one or two. Mostly the top pointer stones carved like arrowheads. Them mountains have been picked clean. Yes, somethings are better left unsaid, unless you just feel like a ruckus. LOL! By the way, I know where a Cairn of the most magnificent nature is, on the top of a totally desolate mountain top is. It was place by a party going to the Colorado River, then down to the Gulf to catch a ship. They found gold deposits in the area and marked them. They were worked out by Americans, later but this Cairn has the most beautiful cross carved in the base stone which is quite sizable. It give me goose bumps just standing there and staring at it. I took my razor close, then took a full pack up and stayed two days, a while back. I had my Garrett AT and found a Spanish Horse Shoe and some old, really rusted out odds and ends. I keep looking for Coronado but I was certain he wasn't that far west and not one diagnostic artifact to prove him there anyway. Oh well. He travelled further east, but not right in the heart of serious Apache Country. His Indian guides would not allow that anyway.

 

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[Holyground]

So......you know what the double circle symbol means and where it points to?

Yes, I honestly do. It doesn't point anywhere, unless you shoot a coordinate from it. The right coordinate. 2=3-©-18=7. One of many coordinates that make up the whole, usually hidden on the map. Isn't it a nifty thing that two double circles could be the base of a triangle? Hummm, just one of those things, a real head-scratcher. But here I go, advancing the theory into uncharted territory. I need to stop but there's 2 feet of snow outside, I've read til I'm silly, and I'm bored! I'm leaving for Arizona in a couple of weeks to get some new pictures of something really COOL. 2 weeks seems like 2 thousand years but I have things I must finish here or I would be there now. I usually am. I have a hard time staying in shape in the snow and ice. I keep slipping and wrenching the knees. I HATE IT. I use those rubber slip on ice pick things for my hiking boots but they are a bit sketchy too. Not to mention the Well Diggers @$$ syndrome.

 

[nobodie]

The 18 places are 18 directional markers that lead into the mountains. They go by areas of covered mines and the Jesuits cache. That's all, n o thing mysterious or difficult.

 

[coazon de oro]

So......you know what the double circle symbol means and where it points to?

Howdy alan m,

The larger or outer circle represents the hole, while the smaller inner circle represents what is inside. On the Priest stone it tells you to look in the same hole for the maps, and the heart stone. On the heart stone, and insert it represents the portal with the gold inside.

Homar

 

[Holyground]

The 18 places are 18 directional markers that lead into the mountains. They go by areas of covered mines and the Jesuits cache. That's all, n o thing mysterious or difficult.

There is more to it than a simple generic answer, although, you are 1/3 right. To get to a place you need a direction. Once there, one should mark that place, if they want to get there again after a long abscence. Too bad others came along with other ideas and obliterated them.

 

[Holyground]

Howdy alan m,

The larger or outer circle represents the hole, while the smaller inner circle represents what is inside. On the Priest stone it tells you to look in the same hole for the maps, and the heart stone. On the heart stone, and insert it represents the portal with the gold inside.

Homar

Homar, could you show me where the Priest map refurs to maps in the same hole? Just curios, if you can. If not I understand. Thank you.

 

[coazon de oro]

Homar, could you show me where the Priest map refurs to maps in the same hole? Just curios, if you can. If not I understand. Thank you.

Sure, the Priest/Horse stone was slightly sticking out of the ground edge wise when Travis found it, and dug it out. After studying it at his home he then went back a year later, and dug out the rest. The Priest side of that stone indicated with a 1 that it is that stone, and one of 4. It tells you to look for the map, and the heart. The Priest is showing you to dig in the same hole for the 2 and 3 that are the map, and to keep digging for the heart which is the forth. The set is complete, there is no fifth, or missing stone. They show the general area, and show where the trail starts with the first of 18 markers. Some markers were stacked rocks, some of which still stand, others have been knocked down. Other markers were stones on saguaros, or tree forks where the trail took a turn, showing you the way the trail went. Waltz mentioned that the Mexicans marked their trails this way, and destroyed the markers he found close to his mine. He said the stones were wedged in and had to be taken out with an ax. This is why one of his clues is a tree with a cut off limb.

Homar

 

[wrmickel1]

If you must split hairs to bolster your argument then let me state the obvious: All I ever refur to is Jesuits of Pre-Suppression. Who found the Royal Fifth and how did they know it was the so called Royal Fifth? Any Royal Fifth I know of sat tightly in the Kings vaults. It didn't become the Royal Fifth until it was shipped to the king. The Jesuits didn't pay the Royal Fifth because they didn't mine gold or silver or anything for that matter. See how that all worked for them? All they gave the king was the Royal Finger. As far as modern day Jesuits, ain't worth a bucket of cold spit to me. I hold Church wherever I may be. The Kingdom of Heaven is within. Martin Luther is right. Don't need the middleman. If you want to give your money to someone, buy someone something to eat or buy a kid some shoes. We just did that this Christmas and guess what, we didn't need a Jesuit to do it for us. So tell me wrmickel, what does the term 18 places on the Stone Maps mean? I'm not being pushy, I'm just excited that I found someone like you, with all of the answers. Oh! Oh! If you're not too busy, could you also tell me what exactly 2=3-©-18=7 means also. Come on, spill it! Oh! Oh! While you're at it, would you please tell me what that symbol to the left of the line of numbers means too. You know the headstone with the two lines in it and the small cross above? I'm just dying to know. Hey, you are the answer man. Show us what you got.

Thats whole lot of Stone Map Gossip full your Blowing, First you line of Questions are in reverse, like your theory.
So here goes Holy Ground/ That's what you'll be on if you find Start.

The line of numbers are the Saint Gardians in the field, You walk between them up to a platform, The Gardian on your east side up high has a white rock stuck in it, the eye catcher Very important, there theory is based on holy trinity, The Triangle Three side 2 is always first 3 is second and 1 your objective. 2=3 changes the Trinity, So now your on three from there all you need is 1, 7 is gold mines, 18 in the region.

Now that's the best I can do for ya, And there is Know symbol with a C in it inside a circle, Just kidding the circle in the circle is Devine Walk Into the light.

But when it's the only Solved way to Read the maps, I guess it is The Best.

Wrmickel1

 

[Azquester]

Sure, the Priest/Horse stone was slightly sticking out of the ground edge wise when Travis found it, and dug it out. After studying it at his home he then went back a year later, and dug out the rest. The Priest side of that stone indicated with a 1 that it is that stone, and one of 4. It tells you to look for the map, and the heart. The Priest is showing you to dig in the same hole for the 2 and 3 that are the map, and to keep digging for the heart which is the forth. The set is complete, there is no fifth, or missing stone. They show the general area, and show where the trail starts with the first of 18 markers. Some markers were stacked rocks, some of which still stand, others have been knocked down. Other markers were stones on saguaros, or tree forks where the trail took a turn, showing you the way the trail went. Waltz mentioned that the Mexicans marked their trails this way, and destroyed the markers he found close to his mine. He said the stones were wedged in and had to be taken out with an ax. This is why one of his clues is a tree with a cut off limb.

Homar

Now hears the real story:

The Priest Horse stone was the hardest to carve when Travis thought of it and then went back a year later and carved additional stones to compliment the first. He casually looked at his cooler full of Beer and noticed he had 18 bottles of Stag left from the case he bought earlier with some poor suckers money given to him for giving up his secrets in the Priest Horse stone map he had just finished carving. Travis had an idea! 18 Beers in 18 places! While drinking the rest of his 24 bottle case of Beer he played with a few stones he had piled up for his camp site fire pit which gave him an original thought. He grabbed one of the stones from the pile and chucked it so hard it stuck in a nearby Cactus! This was a revelation for old sweet Trav! Fearing he was about to run out of firewood Travis ran over to a nearby tree and cut a branch off for his fire. This brought another idea to his drunken adventure! After downing the other 18 stags old Travis grabbed an axe and cut the Cactus free of the stone he just wedged in. That was it! He soon passed out and woke up the next morning laying next to the Priest / Horse map he had just carved half covered in the dirt he kicked up while drinking heavily the night before! I'll bury them just like that he quipped!

And the rest my friends is drunken History!

It's just for a laugh so don't get your panties in a bunch..

 

[Carl995]

He said the stones were wedged in and had to be taken out with an ax. This is why one of his clues is a tree with a cut off limb.

Hey honey, i see an ancient stone map sticking out of the ground.......bring me the AXE!

 

[Holyground]

Now hears the real story:

The Priest Horse stone was the hardest to carve when Travis thought of it and then went back a year later and carved additional stones to compliment the first. He casually looked at his cooler full of Beer and noticed he had 18 bottles of Stag left from the case he bought earlier with some poor suckers money given to him for giving up his secrets in the Priest Horse stone map he had just finished carving. Travis had an idea! 18 Beers in 18 places! While drinking the rest of his 24 bottle case of Beer he played with a few stones he had piled up for his camp site fire pit which gave him an original thought. He grabbed one of the stones from the pile and chucked it so hard it stuck in a nearby Cactus! This was a revelation for old sweet Trav! Fearing he was about to run out of firewood Travis ran over to a nearby tree and cut a branch off for his fire. This brought another idea to his drunken adventure! After downing the other 18 stags old Travis grabbed an axe and cut the Cactus free of the stone he just wedged in. That was it! He soon passed out and woke up the next morning laying next to the Priest / Horse map he had just carved half covered in the dirt he kicked up while drinking heavily the night before! I'll bury them just like that he quipped!

And the rest my friends is drunken History!

It's just for a laugh so don't get your panties in a bunch..

I got a good laugh and hey, it's as good as most explanations here. I'm still trying to figure out the "Saint Gardians in the field, You walk between them up to a platform." I think I saw that in the movie, Close Encounters of the Third Kind. My luck when I got to the platform, Justin Beaver would be singing with Kanye.

 

[Holyground]

Sure, the Priest/Horse stone was slightly sticking out of the ground edge wise when Travis found it, and dug it out. After studying it at his home he then went back a year later, and dug out the rest. The Priest side of that stone indicated with a 1 that it is that stone, and one of 4. It tells you to look for the map, and the heart. The Priest is showing you to dig in the same hole for the 2 and 3 that are the map, and to keep digging for the heart which is the forth. The set is complete, there is no fifth, or missing stone. They show the general area, and show where the trail starts with the first of 18 markers. Some markers were stacked rocks, some of which still stand, others have been knocked down. Other markers were stones on saguaros, or tree forks where the trail took a turn, showing you the way the trail went. Waltz mentioned that the Mexicans marked their trails this way, and destroyed the markers he found close to his mine. He said the stones were wedged in and had to be taken out with an ax. This is why one of his clues is a tree with a cut off limb.

Homar

Thank you.

 

[deducer]

Sure, the Priest/Horse stone was slightly sticking out of the ground edge wise when Travis found it, and dug it out. After studying it at his home he then went back a year later, and dug out the rest. The Priest side of that stone indicated with a 1 that it is that stone, and one of 4. It tells you to look for the map, and the heart. The Priest is showing you to dig in the same hole for the 2 and 3 that are the map, and to keep digging for the heart which is the forth. The set is complete, there is no fifth, or missing stone. They show the general area, and show where the trail starts with the first of 18 markers. Some markers were stacked rocks, some of which still stand, others have been knocked down. Other markers were stones on saguaros, or tree forks where the trail took a turn, showing you the way the trail went. Waltz mentioned that the Mexicans marked their trails this way, and destroyed the markers he found close to his mine. He said the stones were wedged in and had to be taken out with an ax. This is why one of his clues is a tree with a cut off limb.

Homar

Homar, the story of the discovery is not factual history- it's only the story that Travis told and a very dubious one at that because there are variations of this tale over the year that he told to Robert Tumlinson, Clarence Mitchell, Bob Schultz, and to Ken & Pat Hainer- either he went up a hill to get a better look at Weaver's Needle, needed to relieve himself, or was out hunting arrowheads, or his car had run low on water so he went looking and found a "Prince Albert" tobacco can and used it to carry water from the QC to fill his car. In each instance, he "stumbled over" a "protruding rock." Of all of those stories, the one I find most unlikely is looking for Weaver's Needle- I have been to that very exact spot and not only is the Needle hard to spot but that place serves no purpose if you were looking for the Needle because you can only see the very top of it.

This for me, has put the "discovery" story into the fiction category, with a big red flag affixed to it.

 

[coazon de oro]

Homar, the story of the discovery is not factual history- it's only the story that Travis told and a very dubious one at that because there are variations of this tale over the year that he told to Robert Tumlinson, Clarence Mitchell, Bob Schultz, and to Ken & Pat Hainer- either he went up a hill to get a better look at Weaver's Needle, needed to relieve himself, or was out hunting arrowheads, or his car had run low on water so he went looking and found a "Prince Albert" tobacco can and used it to carry water from the QC to fill his car. In each instance, he "stumbled over" a "protruding rock." Of all of those stories, the one I find most unlikely is looking for Weaver's Needle- I have been to that very exact spot and not only is the Needle hard to spot but that place serves no purpose if you were looking for the Needle because you can only see the very top of it.

This for me, has put the "discovery" story into the fiction category, with a big red flag affixed to it.

Howdy deducer,

Most of the history on the PSM's has been destroyed not just by idiots, but even by so called experts, and some archies. The variations to this particular part of the story can not be blamed on Travis alone. There were too many claiming to have gotten it from the horses mouth, and they could be the reason for the variations. If Travis did indeed tell different stories, he may have been making an excuse for being there. What does not change is the truth, and as you said, in every story he stumbled over a protruding rock. In my honest opinion he dug it out not because it was protruding, but because it has "Miguel" etched on it.

Travis excuse for being there does not really matter, but the fact that Weaver's Needle is hard to see from there, together with the fact that he found the PSM's on a rise, gives merit to him wondering where the most prominent feature of the area was, as he went to higher ground.

Homar

 

[Holyground]

Variations in stories? The Kennedy assassination for instance? When they found the rest of the maps, I'm sure they had Topo Maps spread out on the ground looking for any match possible. Since Weavers Needle plays in the LDM, that was probably a given. I'm sure, as far as they were concerned, the area in which they found the maps was their starting point. I think Travis stopped to relieve himself and noticing that his car was low on water, he peed in a Prince Albert can to fill the radiator. I'm sure it was much too hot to risk his unit up close. Besides, have you ever tried to pee in a radiator? No. It's hard enough peeing in a Gatoraid bottle. Here's the clincher: Travis didn't have Gatoraid bottles back in the late 40s.

 

[deducer]

Howdy deducer,

Most of the history on the PSM's has been destroyed not just by idiots, but even by so called experts, and some archies. The variations to this particular part of the story can not be blamed on Travis alone. There were too many claiming to have gotten it from the horses mouth, and they could be the reason for the variations. If Travis did indeed tell different stories, he may have been making an excuse for being there. What does not change is the truth, and as you said, in every story he stumbled over a protruding rock. In my honest opinion he dug it out not because it was protruding, but because it has "Miguel" etched on it.

Travis excuse for being there does not really matter, but the fact that Weaver's Needle is hard to see from there, together with the fact that he found the PSM's on a rise, gives merit to him wondering where the most prominent feature of the area was, as he went to higher ground.

Homar

Homar,

The other thing to think about is the lack of corroborating testimony from Aileen, and whoever else was part of the "family" that traveled with Tumlinson on their way back to Hood River (as far as I'm aware..). Why did they never corroborate his story, or at least speak of it after his death? It would be a stretch to assume that they merely sat in the car while Travis dug up the stones.

 

[wrmickel1]

Deducer

Lack of Corroboration, She sold the Maps, and maybe the deal was not to talk about them. There is a thing called honor your word and simply did.

And I do believe Travis's Wife and Daughter did Corroborate that Travis found the Maps. So I'm not following your meaning. They told the truth, It seems to me your luring yourself,not to believe.

Wrmickel1

 

[coazon de oro]

Homar,

The other thing to think about is the lack of corroborating testimony from Aileen, and whoever else was part of the "family" that traveled with Tumlinson on their way back to Hood River (as far as I'm aware..). Why did they never corroborate his story, or at least speak of it after his death? It would be a stretch to assume that they merely sat in the car while Travis dug up the stones.

deducer,

I hear you, and what it seems to me is that Aileen didn't give a rat's patootie about the stones. She may have mentioned it to some of her friend, or family, but maybe didn't get questioned by those who had an interest in them if they could just question Travis. Most women don't have the same interest as their husbands. They just know he has a lot of "stuff" in his shop, or can't tell the difference from a shotgun, and a rifle in her husbands collection. Had she owned a cell phone back then, it wouldn't be a stretch to think that she would just have a ton of selfies as she waited in the car.
Heck I have a hat rack from a 14 pointer, and my wife keeps telling me to cut off the drop tine so it won't look as bad.

 

[Holyground]

deducer,

I hear you, and what it seems to me is that Aileen didn't give a rat's patootie about the stones. She may have mentioned it to some of her friend, or family, but maybe didn't get questioned by those who had an interest in them if they could just question Travis. Most women don't have the same interest as their husbands. They just know he has a lot of "stuff" in his shop, or can't tell the difference from a shotgun, and a rifle in her husbands collection. Had she owned a cell phone back then, it wouldn't be a stretch to think that she would just have a ton of selfies as she waited in the car.
Heck I have a hat rack from a 14 pointer, and my wife keeps telling me to cut off the drop tine so it won't look as bad.

Exactly! My wife tries everything in the book to stop me from going out into the Wilderness for a few days. She hates it and just doesn't understand. She thinks I will DIE OUT THERE! No, I will shoot myself when I can't. Aileen was probably the same way to a certain extent or another, I'm sure, plus as wrmickle1 stated, they were probably gaged by the buyer/s.

 

[somehiker]

There's lots of other stuff out there to find and explore.
Like this...the biggest snake on the mountain.
With a toothy companion emerging from below.
Gila Monster ?