Nexus Standard MKII vs Garret ATX? Which is deeper?

[fella]

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I hope this is good evidence for you.
My money are exactly where my mouth if. Where are yours cowboy?
I am not here to pick a fight, but if you really want to play the big man I can assure you you will get your ass kicked.

Internet tough guy alert!

Congrats on "your" machines! Now go fail with em!

 

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[sirusramse]

I'm curious as to what parameters you are testing the VLF machines on. Are you using all metal modes, auto sensitivity and looking for a target response or maybe even a threshold change?

I am primarily interested in their ability to just detect any targets. All metal mode, full sensitivity or what ever the ground will allow are the setting I use. I do not particularly care about target response as the deep signals are usually out of this equation.
However I did take some note of how fast the different detectors are.
XP Deus appears fast, but the signal delay counteracts on that impression.
CTX3030 is faster than the older Explorers, but there is still much to desire.
Garrett ATX is just plain slow, probably because it is suppose to be a deep seeking detector. I am not sure about that.
Fisher F75 and Tesoro Cortes would be the fastest amongst the mentioned so far.
Nexus is somewhat different in this regard. It appears hell fast, yet the signal response is not as snappy as with the digital machines, but it exhibits this smooth rise and fall of the signal responses. I am ok with it, but probably many would prefer the more sharp and define short signal area of the digital detectors.

From these set of detectors only the CTX3030 works on full sensitivity without a whistle from the ground. Very impressive.
However the MkII with smaller DD coil at minimum sensitivity (which makes it very stable) exhibits greater depth in ground and in air to. So far regarding discrimination I would call it an even between these two, but I haven't done enough tests to conclude much.

Handling Ground Minerals (very wet conditions).
Now all testing so far was in muddy soil as here rains forever this Spring.
If I take as a test just all detectors at maximum sensitivity they would go like this;
1 ATX
2 CTX3030
3 XP Deus
4 Fisher F75
5 Tesoro Cortes
6 Nexus Credo DDM
7 Nexus MkII

So the most sensitive and powerful detectors have the least chance in wet weather. They need to be turned down to minimum. With Nexus this is not a problem really, because even at minimum sensitivity it goes deep any way (quarter dollar at 12" under ground easily).

If handling the Ground Minerals revolves around set detecting distance that is a different picture. So what I did was set all detectors to equal sensitivity in air on a coin, so each one of them would detect the coin at 12" in air.
After they been equalised in their power the detectors lined up like this;

1 Garrett ATX - Minelab CTX3030 - Nexus Credo DDM - Nexus MkII
2 XP deus
3 Fisher F75 - Tesoro Cortes

I have not yet tried these detectors head to head on a dry soil as there is no such here yet.

 

[sirusramse]

Some update.
Today I have been out with the ATX with all the confidence to deal with the controls. In minimum discrimination setting and maximum sensitivity the ATX is very stable and it detects the test coin at 10" in ground with nice signal, but no discrimination so I wouldn't make a difference with Iron.
When the discrimination setting is raised up to 5 the Iron is a bit difficult to tell and the coin signal is weak. Still no definite discrimination of what it is.

On the other hand Nexus MkII with the dual 9" coil at minimum sensitivity is giving a loud signal on the coin, but it discriminates it is low quality non-ferrous. Since nickel coins are not high conductivity I consider this normal.
The only draw back of this test is that in muddy conditions Nexus coils have to be carried away from the soil, so any random closing up to the soil below 2" would produce a false signal. But if one keeps away from doing that the signal responses of MkII come out way louder than anything the ATX can show. In dry soil Nexus does not have much of this problem if ever.
The ATX is dead silent on the ground even at maximum sensitivity

 

[Rock Rock]

Some update.
Today I have been out with the ATX with all the confidence to deal with the controls. In minimum discrimination setting and maximum sensitivity the ATX is very stable and it detects the test coin at 10" in ground with nice signal, but no discrimination so I wouldn't make a difference with Iron.
When the discrimination setting is raised up to 5 the Iron is a bit difficult to tell and the coin signal is weak. Still no definite discrimination of what it is.

On the other hand Nexus MkII with the dual 9" coil at minimum sensitivity is giving a loud signal on the coin, but it discriminates it is low quality non-ferrous. Since nickel coins are not high conductivity I consider this normal.
The only draw back of this test is that in muddy conditions Nexus coils have to be carried away from the soil, so any random closing up to the soil below 2" would produce a false signal. But if one keeps away from doing that the signal responses of MkII come out way louder than anything the ATX can show. In dry soil Nexus does not have much of this problem if ever.
The ATX is dead silent on the ground even at maximum sensitivity

Hey,

Can you do some more tests with the Minelab 3030.

Thanks

 

[sirusramse]

Hey,

Can you do some more tests with the Minelab 3030.

Thanks

I certainly will and the results of my findings will be posted on my other tread.

 

[Rock Rock]

Thanks !

I certainly will and the results of my findings will be posted on my other tread.

 

[Cycluran]

"Cycluran will have an impossible time to convince me that he found even a train 3 feet deep as the ATX does not get any normal size object that far in air at no settings.
Perhaps he can suggest some secret setting that I have missed out of the very few buttons."

It was a big 24 pounder that my old Tesoro could have picked up at 3 feet in all-metal mode. I've pulled deeper shells with my Minelab. You'll get the hang of it one day.

 

[sirusramse]

"Cycluran will have an impossible time to convince me that he found even a train 3 feet deep as the ATX does not get any normal size object that far in air at no settings.
Perhaps he can suggest some secret setting that I have missed out of the very few buttons."

It was a big 24 pounder that my old Tesoro could have picked up at 3 feet in all-metal mode. I've pulled deeper shells with my Minelab. You'll get the hang of it one day.

I already did. I am quick learner. Still no results of this magnitude.
How big is 24 pounder shell?

 

[Cycluran]

But the general consensus is that no detector can detect deeper in ground than in air. The reason is that in ground there are losses of signal and in air there are non, period.


Siruramse , Sorry but I disagree with the above statement. I know I am not an electrical engineer, but I do know first hand that multiple freq Minelab machines are not very good at air tests, but will hit targets much deeper that have been in the ground matrix for several years. Don't be surprised if the CTX doesn't do as well in your test as some of the others.

The reason you CAN get a signal in the ground further away from the coil than in the air, that 24 pounder for example, is because of the halo of corrosion, iron particles, rust, that have leached out over the years. That serves to affectively increase the size of the target in the ground.

 

[sirusramse]

The reason you CAN get a signal in the ground further away from the coil than in the air, that 24 pounder for example, is because of the halo of corrosion, iron particles, rust, that have leached out over the years. That serves to affectively increase the size of the target in the ground.

The halo effect is the biggest urban legend in history of metal detecting and has no basis in the laws of physics. Non.
Rust can increase signal strength a little bit, but only if it is in enormous amounts and relatively compact.
Detecting deeper in the ground than in air is a marketing lie that companies have invented as a point of sales tool.
I am yet to see this to ever happen after 3 decades of detecting.

The only thing that leads folks to believe that they can detect deeper in the ground is the fact that most detectors can detect in ground targets at almost the same depth as in air, but adding some air distance as well. So the air distance added to the in ground dept appears greater than the air dept alone.

In absolute values no detector can ever get anything deeper in ground than in air, period.

I would still like to know what are the actual dimensions of the 24 pounder, please.

 

[Cycluran]

Google it. You don't believe anything I say anyway. I'm done with this thread.

 

[sirusramse]

Google it. You don't believe anything I say anyway. I'm done with this thread.

I believe any fact, but nothing personal mate, halo effect is no fact, it is a myth.

 

[Fletch88]

The reason you CAN get a signal in the ground further away from the coil than in the air, that 24 pounder for example, is because of the halo of corrosion, iron particles, rust, that have leached out over the years. That serves to affectively increase the size of the target in the ground.

Yes, I'm with you Cycluran! I had already read how Sirumese felt about the halo effect, but I see it every time I use an Excal, CTX, Etrac, or GPX. I dug a copper penny at 24" today but it won't air test that far. Call it what you want, it works! I've found that single freq machines with lightning fast recovery speed that air test great distances can't hold a candle to FBS or even BBS detectors IMO.

 

[sirusramse]

Yes, I'm with you Cycluran! I had already read how Sirumese felt about the halo effect, but I see it every time I use an Excal, CTX, Etrac, or GPX. I dug a copper penny at 24" today but it won't air test that far. Call it what you want, it works! I've found that single freq machines with lightning fast recovery speed that air test great distances can't hold a candle to FBS or even BBS detectors IMO.

This is because you never scraped slowly enough the ground to recover the targets exactly where they are.
Next time when you find something deep take out the dirt inch by inch until you get to the target. Don't just punch a deep hole. Then you will see the reality.
FBS, BBS and so on detectors are not any near as good as you believe if you test everything in a methodical way.
CTX3030 is the same as Deus, F75, ATX etc.
Copper Penny or any other coin at 24" is pure nonsense. You will never find any coin these deep with no detector on this planet.

 

[Fletch88]

This is because you never scraped slowly enough the ground to recover the targets exactly where they are. Next time when you find something deep take out the dirt inch by inch until you get to the target. Don't just punch a deep hole. Then you will see the reality. FBS, BBS and so on detectors are not any near as good as you believe if you test everything in a methodical way. CTX3030 is the same as Deus, F75, ATX etc. Copper Penny or any other coin at 24" is pure nonsense. You will never find any coin these deep with no detector on this planet.

I did it today on the upper portion of the beach with a GPX 4800 with 15x 12" DD coil and I did dig inch by inch well maybe 2-3 inches by inches. I even changed soil timings to compare signal responses as I was carefully recovering targets and as the manual states Coin/Relic mode is the deepest.

I am sorry you cannot accept that there is in fact a halo effect, but I can in fact recover targets much deeper than they will air test.

 

[sirusramse]

I did it today on the upper portion of the beach with a GPX 4800 with 15x 12" DD coil and I did dig inch by inch well maybe 2-3 inches by inches. I even changed soil timings to compare signal responses as I was carefully recovering targets and as the manual states Coin/Relic mode is the deepest.

I am sorry you cannot accept that there is in fact a halo effect, but I can in fact recover targets much deeper than they will air test.

GPX detectors are not capable to ever detect any coin at 24" in any condition with any of their search coils.
I am a man with scientific mind and one that believes only facts, not urban legends and much less bollox.

Knowing how difficult is to pin point with any Minelab the certainty in your case is that you keep loosing the targets back in the hole and by the time you recover them the hole goes way out of detection dept. I have seen it many times with Minelab users.

But then guys with metal detectors are no different than fishermen. My fish was 50 pounds bigger than the one the other guy got. Common measuring dicks crap.

 

[Fletch88]

I'm at a loss for words. I can't say what I want to say as I don't want to offend women and children or break the rules here. I'll just unsubscribe and keep on digging those "impossible" targets you say are fallacies. I didn't just fall off the metal detecting truck last week and am very capable of pinpointing and retrieving targets in place, even with the GPX and Sovereign without using PP switch. PS: Others may have scientific minds also, not just yourself.

 

[sirusramse]

I'm at a loss for words. I can't say what I want to say as I don't want to offend women and children or break the rules here. I'll just unsubscribe and keep on digging those "impossible" targets you say are fallacies. I didn't just fall off the metal detecting truck last week and am very capable of pinpointing and retrieving targets in place, even with the GPX and Sovereign without using PP switch. PS: Others may have scientific minds also, not just yourself.

What ever you want to say it is your right, but you can not defeat the laws of physics. No one can.

 

[fella]

Just curious as to what "scientific" methods you will be using to determine what you feel is the best detector?

 

[sirusramse]

Just curious as to what "scientific" methods you will be using to determine what you feel is the best detector?

I will only attempt to measure what the detectors can do and will try my best to keep any feelings out of it. Scientific approach can not be impartial if involves any feelings, such as taking like in this, but dislike than because of...etc.
All I want to know is what these gadgets are capable of in real terms.