New site?...with different clue versions?

[somehiker]

it is just a map wayne..like any other map i ever saw...it had a trail and landmarks..no silly numbers or spanish that even spaniards cant decipher ...tom k. saw it too...the man might have let tom photograph it..you'd have to check into it....the peralta stone maps are a puzzle...not a map...meant to drive people insane wayne...the only one that knows what the stones mean are the person that engraved them ..might as well go buy a rubics cube..at least it can be solved...answer this..if those stones have any ties to the church.. then why hasn't the church put a claim on them for religious artifacts?...if they really wanted them they could very easily get them

I don't know about modern Spaniards, but I've shown photos of the H/P to several Spanish speakers at work. One from the Phillipines, and five or six from Mexico and Guatemala. Not one of them has had any trouble reading the words and knowing what each sentence means. In fact, it was one of them who got me started on this particular journey in 2010 . In his opinion, the word "LUGARES" applied to somewhere you would "briefly halt....like a "bus" at a bus stop would". To me that fits very well with the entire sentence above that word.....and the trail itself.

Has the church ever admitted to hoarding and hiding any kind of treasure from the authorities ?
Or in mining the southwest, with or without outside labor ?
Wouldn't claiming them as religious artifacts, especially the SC's, CP, and LH, which DO mention gold and church (IGLESIA) treasure, put them in the historical hotseat ?

From where I stand now, it appears more likely that all of this is the result of an effort in intelligence gathering which began with a few Franciscan researcher-writers mid-late 1500's that was somehow taken over and continued by the Jesuits in the late 1600's . Also that both orders knew what they were looking for, but were unable to find it ....the Franciscans because they had little to go on prior to the Jesuits taking over that part of the new lands, and the Jesuits because despite having additional info and bases relatively nearby were probably short of a critical piece/key, had lost the native co-operation they needed after the Pima revolt, and/or they were expelled in 1776 . The final answer to these questions can only be answered on site, and probably by the Latin Heart......if at all.

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

A Handbook of Civil War Bullets and Cartridges - Grab it through Amazon!

[wrmickel1]

I don't know about modern Spaniards, but I've shown photos of the H/P to several Spanish speakers at work. One from the Phillipines, and five or six from Mexico and Guatemala. Not one of them has had any trouble reading the words and knowing what each sentence means. In fact, it was one of them who got me started on this particular journey in 2010 . In his opinion, the word "LUGARES" applied to somewhere you would "briefly halt....like a "bus" at a bus stop would". To me that fits very well with the entire sentence above that word.....and the trail itself.

Has the church ever admitted to hoarding and hiding any kind of treasure from the authorities ?
Or in mining the southwest, with or without outside labor ?
Wouldn't claiming them as religious artifacts, especially the SC's, CP, and LH, which DO mention gold and church (IGLESIA) treasure, put them in the historical hotseat ?

From where I stand now, it appears more likely that all of this is the result of an effort in intelligence gathering which began with a few Franciscan researcher-writers mid-late 1500's that was somehow taken over and continued by the Jesuits in the late 1600's . Also that both orders knew what they were looking for, but were unable to find it ....the Franciscans because they had little to go on prior to the Jesuits taking over that part of the new lands, and the Jesuits because despite having additional info and bases relatively nearby were probably short of a critical piece/key, had lost the native co-operation they needed after the Pima revolt, and/or they were expelled in 1776 . The final answer to these questions can only be answered on site, and probably by the Latin Heart......if at all.

A brief Halt, Sure it correlates to the 18 mines in the region. That’s exactly what it means. I’ve posted photos of 14 of them so far. As for the Jesuits sure they did lose a key piece of information, 3 pieces to be exact, Start, The circle in a circle, F

babymick1

 

[JohnWhite]

I have been doing a little thinking about the 1847...It could be a date...Or it could be 1+8+4=13 and what of the 7...Some believe that the 7 represents gold...As back in the day there were only 7 known metals...And IF this is the case...What IF the 1847 stands for the metals which might be found at the end of the rainbow...But IF there were only 7 known metals at the time, why is there an 8...Could the 8 represent a new metal other than the 7 knownAnd IF this is the case...Could it represent Platinum

Who can say for certainWe may only speculate...

Ed T

 

[arcana-exploration]

I don't know about modern Spaniards, but I've shown photos of the H/P to several Spanish speakers at work. One from the Phillipines, and five or six from Mexico and Guatemala. Not one of them has had any trouble reading the words and knowing what each sentence means. In fact, it was one of them who got me started on this particular journey in 2010 . In his opinion, the word "LUGARES" applied to somewhere you would "briefly halt....like a "bus" at a bus stop would". To me that fits very well with the entire sentence above that word.....and the trail itself.

Has the church ever admitted to hoarding and hiding any kind of treasure from the authorities ?
Or in mining the southwest, with or without outside labor ?
Wouldn't claiming them as religious artifacts, especially the SC's, CP, and LH, which DO mention gold and church (IGLESIA) treasure, put them in the historical hotseat ?

From where I stand now, it appears more likely that all of this is the result of an effort in intelligence gathering which began with a few Franciscan researcher-writers mid-late 1500's that was somehow taken over and continued by the Jesuits in the late 1600's . Also that both orders knew what they were looking for, but were unable to find it ....the Franciscans because they had little to go on prior to the Jesuits taking over that part of the new lands, and the Jesuits because despite having additional info and bases relatively nearby were probably short of a critical piece/key, had lost the native co-operation they needed after the Pima revolt, and/or they were expelled in 1776 . The final answer to these questions can only be answered on site, and probably by the Latin Heart......if at all.

Wayne yes I never heard that (LUGARES) put that way, that is correct, it is the end of the trail and the start of the path up, but first, you must stop and look for the trail map( it is there) before you proceed up the path. I saw it about three years ago but was not sure what it meant. I knew it was directional marking but was not sure at first what it telling me. Then I figured it out. Yes, you pause and look at it. I am sure the Jesuits IMO knew right away what it meant. It is much the same as Noto Triangulum. Thanks for that info on the guy from works interpretation, which confirms what we see.
Tell him he was right when you first see it, is off in the distance, and you really have to look for it. great info. Someone posted earlier that whoever did the original Mapa was very intelligent was right, they were very smart! The more I think about it it would have to be someone who could make traditional maps but was cunning enough to something radical, yet decipherable by someone else who made maps and was very intellagent. Of course someone like Kino comes to mind but why he need to do onr brfore hid death?

 

[somehiker]

Kino may have contributed something to the Jesuit part of the search IMO.
His showing up at Casa Grande, riding a white horse, may have even prompted the locals to tell him an old story or two. We do know they told him about the Huhugam (Hohokam)....the ones who once lived there, but were long-gone. They also said the Hohokam had been ruled by a very evil and cruel man, El Ciba or something close to that.

The trail I will have to use to get to what I really want to see up close is not long, perhaps only about 18 short paces....if I choose to do it their way. Look at the chevron symbol again, because that symbol also shows the shape of the terrain it follows, as does the symbol to the right of the seventh dot (between the 4 and the 8). It would be like walking a crooked tightrope. There are deep irregular pits on either side, and the trail surface is all loose rock like the creek beds out there. Not a place where you want to put your weight on the wrong rock, so definitely Peligroza . From dot 8-11 it gets a bit wider, but from 10-14 I'll be shimmying along a narrow ledge until I reach the bottom corner of a large heart shaped slab of rock. The terrain profile through the 8-14 segment is shown to the right of the round hole in the lower TS. I suspect the odd triangle symbol to the right of the 14th dot shows what the entrance looks like, and that the inside end of the same passageway is symbolized by the triangle within the heart cavity.
But then again, I might be able to tie a rope to one of the logs across the bigger of the two holes up above all that, and drop down over the side instead.

 

[deducer]

From where I stand now, it appears more likely that all of this is the result of an effort in intelligence gathering which began with a few Franciscan researcher-writers mid-late 1500's that was somehow taken over and continued by the Jesuits in the late 1600's . Also that both orders knew what they were looking for, but were unable to find it ....the Franciscans because they had little to go on prior to the Jesuits taking over that part of the new lands, and the Jesuits because despite having additional info and bases relatively nearby were probably short of a critical piece/key, had lost the native co-operation they needed after the Pima revolt, and/or they were expelled in 1776 . The final answer to these questions can only be answered on site, and probably by the Latin Heart......if at all.

IMO, the presence of dore bars at the site will determine, once and for all, if the site was appropriated and then used as an almacen, or if it is in line with your theory as being something that either order was "unable to find," because dore bars are distinctly an European innovation.. only the Europeans did that to gold in bulk, as far as I know. None of the ancient civilizations from the Americas treated gold in that fashion.

As you know, I remain in the former camp because of the religious symbols found on site, including the "FAITH" monument.

 

[PotBelly Jim]

Make sure to take plenty of pics, SH...whether there's anything there or not...maybe we should all pitch in to get you a better camera they have cameras now, Wayne, that have resolution greater than 640x480

EDIT: Just read your post over on Hal Croves' thread...looks like you are in need of a scanner too?

I can't rib you very much as all my stuff has stripped screw heads and gobs of solder dripped here and there from various repairs...just had to resolder the ground on the USB port on my CNC stepper motor driver...most guys would have upgraded long ago...baling wire and duct tape is good enough for me too most times.

 

[wrmickel1]

IMO, the presence of dore bars at the site will determine, once and for all, if the site was appropriated and then used as an almacen, or if it is in line with your theory as being something that either order was "unable to find," because dore bars are distinctly an European innovation.. only the Europeans did that to gold in bulk, as far as I know. None of the ancient civilizations from the Americas treated gold in that fashion.

As you know, I remain in the former camp because of the religious symbols found on site, including the "FAITH" monument.

Agreed Sir

If it was the the Native Tribes in the area there would be evidence in the dwellings. Now people have claimed to have found Jesuit bars here and there threw-out AZ.

babymick1

 

[gollum]

Make sure to take plenty of pics, SH...whether there's anything there or not...maybe we should all pitch in to get you a better camera they have cameras now, Wayne, that have resolution greater than 640x480

EDIT: Just read your post over on Hal Croves' thread...looks like you are in need of a scanner too?

I can't rib you very much as all my stuff has stripped screw heads and gobs of solder dripped here and there from various repairs...just had to resolder the ground on the USB port on my CNC stepper motor driver...most guys would have upgraded long ago...baling wire and duct tape is good enough for me too most times.

640x480? I have this vision in my head of him under a black cloth behind a big box sitting on a tripod, holding a trough of flash powder high above! LOL




Email me. I have a spare rugged camera (waterproof, drop resistant, and dustproof) you can have. I think its either 10 or 12 megapixels. Should work fine for you.

Mike

 

[deducer]

640x480? I have this vision in my head of him under a black cloth behind a big box sitting on a tripod, holding a trough of flash powder high above! LOL

View attachment 1740534


Email me. I have a spare rugged camera (waterproof, drop resistant, and dustproof) you can have. I think its either 10 or 12 megapixels. Should work fine for you.

Mike

He won't even carry around a simple smartphone. Not even the flip type. Good luck!! HAHAHAHAHA

I, on the other hand, have a camera that does 25 megapixels.

 

[arcana-exploration]

Kino may have contributed something to the Jesuit part of the search IMO.
His showing up at Casa Grande, riding a white horse, may have even prompted the locals to tell him an old story or two. We do know they told him about the Huhugam (Hohokam)....the ones who once lived there, but were long-gone. They also said the Hohokam had been ruled by a very evil and cruel man, El Ciba or something close to that.

The trail I will have to use to get to what I really want to see up close is not long, perhaps only about 18 short paces....if I choose to do it their way. Look at the chevron symbol again, because that symbol also shows the shape of the terrain it follows, as does the symbol to the right of the seventh dot (between the 4 and the 8). It would be like walking a crooked tightrope. There are deep irregular pits on either side, and the trail surface is all loose rock like the creek beds out there. Not a place where you want to put your weight on the wrong rock, so definitely Peligroza . From dot 8-11 it gets a bit wider, but from 10-14 I'll be shimmying along a narrow ledge until I reach the bottom corner of a large heart shaped slab of rock. The terrain profile through the 8-14 segment is shown to the right of the round hole in the lower TS. I suspect the odd triangle symbol to the right of the 14th dot shows what the entrance looks like, and that the inside end of the same passageway is symbolized by the triangle within the heart cavity.
But then again, I might be able to tie a rope to one of the logs across the bigger of the two holes up above all that, and drop down over the side instead.

Wayne, there is a slab rock up there that is sorta heart-shaped, but it is partially covered with rubble at the edges and can not tell if the rubble was removed the exact shape. It appears to be natural and I have kinda dismissed it, but it is a slab rock, I am guessing about 4 to 5 feet in size, but it is interesting. Most people I have shown it to do not think it is a heart, but you have to picture it with the rubble removed. I may show it in the next post it will not give away our location then you can tell me what you think? On the PS there are 2 hearts. In your opinion what is the significance of the smaller heart under the Priests arm? Why do feel or know that the heart is a slab rock? Also, do you feel Hohokam split into two groups?

 

[azdave35]

He won't even carry around a simple smartphone. Not even the flip type. Good luck!! HAHAHAHAHA

I, on the other hand, have a camera that does 25 megapixels.

maybe we can all pitch in at the rendezvous and get wayne a civilized camera

 

[markmar]

H/P + Trail Stones + Red Heart Stone = 4
Stone Crosses + CP + Latin Heart = 4
As for the other 3.....I ain't sayin just yet.

Wayne, you meant the last three as those hidden in the mine by Ward?

 

[deducer]

maybe we can all pitch in at the rendezvous and get wayne a civilized camera

The problem is getting him to use it, or even a simple smartphone. Otherwise I would have done it long ago.

 

[azdave35]

Wayne, there is a slab rock up there that is sorta heart-shaped, but it is partially covered with rubble at the edges and can not tell if the rubble was removed the exact shape. It appears to be natural and I have kinda dismissed it, but it is a slab rock, I am guessing about 4 to 5 feet in size, but it is interesting. Most people I have shown it to do not think it is a heart, but you have to picture it with the rubble removed. I may show it in the next post it will not give away our location then you can tell me what you think? On the PS there are 2 hearts. In your opinion what is the significance of the smaller heart under the Priests arm? Why do feel or know that the heart is a slab rock? Also, do you feel Hohokam split into two groups?

here's a heart for you

 

[arcana-exploration]

here's a heart for you
View attachment 1740558View attachment 1740558[/nOW

Now that is a heart, the one on our site is not that obvious, and I am not sure the one on our site actually is a heart? I am being honest. There are somethings on site that are obvious, the heart on a slab rock not so much so, however it is about where one might be. It is off the ground about 20 feet so one of the guys on our next trip needs to up there and clean the surface to see what it really looks like.

 

[gollum]

He won't even carry around a simple smartphone. Not even the flip type. Good luck!! HAHAHAHAHA

I, on the other hand, have a camera that does 25 megapixels.

Yeah, I have about ten cameras for different things. I have a couple of SLRs, a couple of rugged cameras, a couple of different point and shooters, a 41 megapixel Nokia Lumia 1020, an original and Illum by Lytro that takes a 40 megaray picture that is infinitely focusable.

I take a lot of pics. HAHAHA

Mike

 

[JohnWhite]

Well ya'll...I may have been wrong in stating that 7 represented gold...I believe it may be the 4 in 1847 that represents gold and the 7 represents lead...Here is a link... https://www.google.com/search?q=7+m...1.69i57j0l5.6788j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8 I am sure that ya'll can draw your own conclusions...

Ed T

 

[azdave35]

Well ya'll...I may have been wrong in stating that 7 represented gold...I believe it may be the 4 in 1847 that represents gold and the 7 represents lead...Here is a link... https://www.google.com/search?q=7+m...1.69i57j0l5.6788j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8 I am sure that ya'll can draw your own conclusions...

Ed T

ed..where i come from..7 means...7

 

[JohnWhite]

ed..where i come from..7 means...7

There are plenty of maps out there with a 7 on them...You just may be right with it just meaning 7...And the number 7 has many biblical meanings as well...Heck...The 4 could represent the 4th vow of the Jesuits or catholics...We may never know...

Ed T