New site?...with different clue versions?

[arcana-exploration]

Because there were multiple entities on the same site. Just think of all the things that were said by different groups and individuals, who did not know each other but yet in bits and pieces described sometimes things that did not make sense about the site yet were similar. Just start listing them( I am talking about physical things present), there is probably more than you think.

 

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[arcana-exploration]

Sorry tried to tag that to oro.

 

[JohnWhite]

Well ya'll...Just thought I'd pop in to wish ya'll sweet PSM dreams...I doubt anyone will ever ante up for a trip that will solve so many treasure tale legends and such...And I know that I personally will never return to my version of Santa Fe anytime in the near future...And by the time I hit the big 67, I doubt I'll be wanting to do any treasure hunting...So IF there is any covert group out there following my tracks...Good luck with that...hehehe...I really do believe that I am one tough nut to crack...lol

Ed T

 

[somehiker]

When the focus is on the map value of what is on the stones, and who did them ( there could be several sets and versions), then the interest goes up. What you are all talking about is the nitty-gritty now, the map value is what is important. I heard a couple of things the last few days that made sense, actually three things, but two of them got my brain turning, and the other night I could not sleep, and then I went and opened the passport file and started looking(photos) for something and after several hours, it made sense

What I have said is the stone's map value is absolutely for real, and it is amazing how close some of the thinking, especially on the PH stone is. And yes Wayne, I do not know, exactly. but what I am seeing far the original, could be very early on( Kino or before)? There is such a wealth of knowledge here, on the map value, it is good to see that there seems to be a lot of interest there.

,

Although I still say you should avoid the pitfalls of trying to link the stones to the LDM, or to place the two within the same boundaries, it doesn't hurt to explore whatever possibilities you read from both legends and see on the stones themselves. Who knows, I might be surprised to find such a mine, along with caches of ore as JW described within my own area of interest, where, despite having to hike a bit further than I originally intended to, I have been able reduce the size of the bullseye..... based on information gathered and analyzed over the years since 2010. Even testing my evolving theories by submitting them to review by the other contributors to this and other websites, has helped me in many ways.....even with how to respond to the many stones thrown in my direction. With patience and perseverance, the same should work for you. That and more time in the field of course.

ps: It also helps to ignore the way off topic stuff which all too frequently is "tossed against the wall" by posters whose sole purpose for doing so is to derail the discussion and/or to seek any amount of attention they can get for themselves .

pps: 1103 replies in 2 1/2 months. And who knows how many hits in total.
Counts like that should keep the advertisers smiling and paying.

 

[arcana-exploration]

Although I still say you should avoid the pitfalls of trying to link the stones to the LDM or to place the two within the same boundaries, it doesn't hurt to explore whatever possibilities you read from both legends and see on the stones themselves. Who knows, I might be surprised to find such a mine, along with caches of ore as JW described within my own area of interest, where, despite having to hike a bit further than I originally intended to, I have been able to reduce the size of the bullseye..... based on information gathered and analyzed over the years since 2010. Even testing my evolving theories by submitting them to review by the other contributors to this and other websites, has helped me in many ways.....even with how to respond to the many stones thrown in my direction. With patience and perseverance, the same should work for you. That and more time in the field of course.

ps: It also helps to ignore the way off topic stuff which all too frequently is "tossed against the wall" by posters whose sole purpose for doing so is to derail the discussion and/or to seek any amount of attention they can get for themselves.

pps: 1103 replies in 2 1/2 months. And who knows how many hits in total.
Counts like that should keep the advertisers smiling and paying.

Thanks, Wayne I am not a mission to link the LDM to the Stones. All we are doing is looking at what we have recorded on site, and looking at the recorded history and they both lead to the same place. The stones map info was recorded long before the Dutchman was on-site (IMO) and had nothing to do with him. That being said, would it really be so strange for the site to have been passed from early Spanish to the Mexican's (maybe Peralta's maybe Gonzoales) and then to the Dutchman and his Partner? Where there is will there is away, and there was defiantly a will to know who what and why of what was happening with gold. The only thing with the stones and the Dutchman and have been saying this from the start they lead to the same bird's nest. And yes Allan it is not traditional mine it is a volcanic vent.

 

[markmar]

jim...i did alot of p.m. with him but never knew his real name....me and a couple other guys tried to find the stone that np said was down a well by wards cabin...i'd like to know his name

Dave, actually the stone tablets Bob Ward possessed are not in the well, but in a cave which has a flooded shaft few yards inside to the left. This cave is now covered over and was known to Burns because Np left a suspicion how maybe the Holy Stones were found in this cave.
The well he was talking about, was depicted on the Dios rock which Bob has found on a hill close to the house/mission ruin, and because the well had/has edges on its wall which seems went underwater, he thought how someone could climb down on these edges and hid something valuable in the well.
From what I know they didn't do any work to see if is something hidden in that well.
If you are interested to find those stone maps, I believe I can help you to find them.

 

[deducer]

Correct in that Mike .
But very common Spanish names as well, derived from St. Michael the Archangel and St. Peter, the first pope, who was crucified head-down.

I find it REALLY interesting that the "MIGUEL"....also all in capital letters.....is where it is, AND way up there on top of the stone. I know it doesn't say " San Miguel ", but there might be a reason for that.

It is only when you look at the Stone Maps from a religious point of view, the way their makers intended, that everything starts to come together, and starts to make sense.

EDIT: I should amend this to say, not just a religious point of view, but also an intellectual point of view, to be aware that whoever designed them was very well-educated.

 

[sdcfia]

Like the stone maps, I believe NP's Doc Noss/Willy D.? map was based on pre or early post colonial information.
I also believe most of the words associating Padre Orosco, dates and places on the map etc., were added to it based on what it's creator/copier thought the original was all about. But that's not saying that the original document hadn't fallen into Jesuit hands, just as I suspect the info used for making the stone maps had. They were also interested in looking out for lost things, like the Valley of the Kings in Egypt.
Probably had treasure on their minds too, at times. The imagery at bottom left is based on mestizo style (pointed sombrero, serpent/sierpe and older iconography (aztec style official building---if original was sans cross--- and the aztec glyph between hat and serpent) IMO.... not Jesuit. I've posted examples of most of these observations previously.

I'm generally on the same page with most of this. My working model at this time:

* All these "treasure maps" are relatively recent copies of edited information that likely originated from mid-16th century Europeans. The subject of the maps is allegedly massive precious metals deposits and caches of past exploitations of those deposits.

* The original information is linked to Mesoamerican cultural traditions and is not yet fully understood.

* The Crown was excluded by the Church from possessing whatever genuine intel that was available from the earliest days of the Conquest. The Franciscans may have played a much bigger part than the Jesuits.

* The NP Map has ties to Milton Noss, a known disinformationist and criminal. A red flag.

* The Mariano Map allegedly was retrieved from the Archivo General de Indias. A red flag.

* The Horse Map allegedly has ties to Pegleg Tumlinson. A red flag.

* It's outlandishly naive to expect that we as denizens of the public domain should somehow have access to a useful treasure map of the alleged magnitude of the three mentioned here.

All that said, my model is built on the premise that where there's smoke, there's likely fire. Underlying it all is a strong suspicion that there is a history of secreted precious metal somewhere in today's American Southwest. Period. The maps we see likely contain some good information and just as likely are intentionally corrupted.

 

[Oroblanco]

Of course! "MIGUEL" is on the top edge of the H/P Stone, and "PEDRO" is on the horse's flank on the H/P Stone. Miguel and Pedro Peralta were two of the most well known of the family.

Mike

How do we KNOW that those two names are not surnames? Over 600,000 people have the name PEDRO as a surname (last name) MIGUEL is a fairly common surname in Spain. Or as Wayne pointed out, they could be Pedro and Miguel Gonzales or Garcia or Lopez or Fernandez etc. It could even be two different surnames for Pedro and Miguel.

 

[wrmickel1]

It is only when you look at the Stone Maps from a religious point of view, the way their makers intended, that everything starts to come together, and starts to make sense.

deducer

Now, Phaze out all the others and your left with only religious factors to who made them.
Aztec’s, a very thin possibly a mix of there beliefs and conversion to Catholic faith.

Jesuits, Using the Catholic faith and a mix of Sun worshippers faith and other faiths /Religions since they were a very mixed group.

Franciscan’s using a Catholic Faith.

Babymick1

 

[Al D]

How do we KNOW that those two names are not surnames? Over 600,000 people have the name PEDRO as a surname (last name) MIGUEL is a fairly common surname in Spain. Or as Wayne pointed out, they could be Pedro and Miguel Gonzales or Garcia or Lopez or Fernandez etc. It could even be two different surnames for Pedro and Miguel.

Another moot point, since these chicken scratched carvings provide no information to the stones solution, these were in all likelihood made by Travis or Mitchell

 

[gollum]

How do we KNOW that those two names are not surnames? Over 600,000 people have the name PEDRO as a surname (last name) MIGUEL is a fairly common surname in Spain. Or as Wayne pointed out, they could be Pedro and Miguel Gonzales or Garcia or Lopez or Fernandez etc. It could even be two different surnames for Pedro and Miguel.

WHAT THE HEII IS WRONG WITH YOU? Asking a common sense question like that regarding a treasure story? LOL The damm things have been called the Peralta Stone Maps or Peralta Stones since before either of us were born. I am just telling you WHY they have been called that, I don't know if there is a grain of truth to the explanation or not. You are supposed to just go along with the story and not try to make sense of anything! HAHAHA

Mike

 

[Al D]

WHAT THE HEII IS WRONG WITH YOU? Asking a common sense question like that regarding a treasure story? LOL The damm things have been called the Peralta Stone Maps or Peralta Stones since before either of us were born. I am just telling you WHY they have been called that, I don't know if there is a grain of truth to the explanation or not. You are supposed to just go along with the story and not try to make sense of anything! HAHAHA

Mike

He usually is quite civil with his responses, but for some reason, he now seems to be in attack mode

 

[gollum]

He usually is quite civil with his responses, but for some reason, he now seems to be in attack mode

What's the matter snowflake? Do you not understand the concepts of "LOL" and "HAHAHA"?

Mike

 

[Al D]

What's the matter snowflake? Do you not understand the concepts of "LOL" and "HAHAHA"?

Mike

Not really referring to you Mike, I was referring to the other poster, the one complaining about the discussion on the PSM’s
sorry , I should have quoted his response

 

[somehiker]

Another moot point, since these chicken scratched carvings provide no information to the stones solution, these were in all likelihood made by Travis or Mitchell

That possibility has been suggested many times and that both Travis and Mitchell were so sure the stones were Peralta maps would seem to make it a slam-dunk. Problem is, there is no "PERALTA" on any of the stone artifacts.... or the CP for that matter. Why not, since there is still plenty of space on the H/P stone for them to have done so ?
If either man had wanted to add what they might have thought would be unquestionable proof that the maps were manufactured by the Peraltas, especially with any thoughts of selling them, I would think it absolutely necessary to include the surname.

 

[JohnWhite]

I believe Oro is spot on about the PSM's...I personally do not believe that they have anything in common with the Lost Doucheman mine at all...hehehe...And I also believe that the maps in question have nothing at all to do with any deposit in Arizona at all...

Those are just my 2 cents...Ya'll are entitled to believe what ever it is that ya'll choose to believe...And of course I will continue to believe that which I choose to believe as well...

Ed T

 

[azdave35]

I believe Oro is spot on about the PSM's...I personally do not believe that they have anything in common with the Lost Doucheman mine at all...hehehe...And I also believe that the maps in question have nothing at all to do with any deposit in Arizona at all...

Those are just my 2 cents...Ya'll are entitled to believe what ever it is that ya'll choose to believe...And of course I will continue to believe that which I choose to believe as well...

Ed T

ed..if those doorstops had anything to do with treasure in the superstition mountains they would have been deciphered long ago...thousands of people have tried to solve them and nobody has found anything with them (unless misery, divorce and financial ruin count)...if...and that's a big if..if they are even real they have nothing to do with treasure in the supers...so i agree with you on that...

 

[somehiker]

It is only when you look at the Stone Maps from a religious point of view, the way their makers intended, that everything starts to come together, and starts to make sense.

EDIT: I should amend this to say, not just a religious point of view, but also an intellectual point of view, to be aware that whoever designed them was very well-educated.

Which is why I once said "xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx like a Jesuit."
But now, I would amend that theory to say "xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx like a Mestizo Jesuit."

 

[JohnWhite]

ed..if those doorstops had anything to do with treasure in the superstition mountains they would have been deciphered long ago...thousands of people have tried to solve them and nobody has found anything with them (unless misery, divorce and financial ruin count)...if...and that's a big if..if they are even real they have nothing to do with treasure in the supers...so i agree with you on that...

I am a slow learner Dave...But once I learn something that peaks my interest...I file it away in a spot in my mind where I can access it when it is needed...

Heck...I had never heard of the PSM's or CP before I started reading some of the posts on this site...And I pretty much reversed engineered the PSM's and CP to a location I had visited long ago...And as I have stated...I still have a small amount of ore from the heart of the CP...That is the location with the heart of the Sun of Santa Fe...I am not the brightest treasure hunter around...But I know what I know...

Maybe one day someone might connect the dots as I have done and share what they have found with others...Who knowsMaybe one day I might change my mind and share what I know with ya'll...But I am not holding my breath...

Ed T